[DISCUSSION] What will happen to the "lost" bitcoins? - page 2.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Finestream on October 31, 2024, 12:21:59 PM

However, in cases where the device where the private keys is kept becomes damaged or ruined, but there's back-up available, then those lost coins will never be lost forever, but will be retrieved anytime.

If you have the seed phrase to your funds backed up, then there is no question of it being a lost coin in the first place, because the seed phrase for its recovery is available.

Quote from: 348Judah on October 31, 2024, 01:59:22 PM

Already question like this one have been asked on several occasions on this forum, that all the lost coins will be recircled back to the network in form of spreads on every holder of bitcoin,

Lost coins are not recycled or anything like that, when Satoshi said we should think of it as a donation, he simply meant that lost coins will reduce the supply of BTC available in the market and with demand, that should make available coins worth slightly more.

sunsilk

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on October 31, 2024, 01:00:34 AM

Quote from: sunsilk on October 30, 2024, 03:44:20 AM

Nope, including the lost Bitcoins they will be all 21 million.

To be more accurate:
The exact number of bitcoins (including the lost ones) will be 20999999.9769

Yeah, thanks. So, all are estimation for the year but likely to hit exactly and for this quantity of Bitcoin.

Quote from: thecryptocommittee on October 31, 2024, 03:12:00 PM

Sadly , I've added more lost coins than I'd care to admit. I heard about Bitcoin in 2010 and decided to start mining while at work . Did so for about 3 years till I moved and got about it . Never found the wallet.dat files 6 years later when I went looking. The bitcoin core wallet showed 2,100 encrypted files ( not sure if that is transactions or what) if transactions there's no telling how many coins as my PC would have been clearing 3-4 BTC solo mining in a day

You this too early? I cannot believe those stories, but it doesn't mean they're not real. Well, I've read the same experiences about those who have known Bitcoin too early, mined a lot, and then just forgotten the wallet.dat. Same same stories.

But it does happen, I guess a regretful part is waking you up almost every day.

thecryptocommittee

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Sadly , I've added more lost coins than I'd care to admit. I heard about Bitcoin in 2010 and decided to start mining while at work . Did so for about 3 years till I moved and got about it . Never found the wallet.dat files 6 years later when I went looking. The bitcoin core wallet showed 2,100 encrypted files ( not sure if that is transactions or what) if transactions there's no telling how many coins as my PC would have been clearing 3-4 BTC solo mining in a day

348Judah

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Already question like this one have been asked on several occasions on this forum, that all the lost coins will be recircled back to the network in form of spreads on every holder of bitcoin, this effect is what is being felt when you're holding and you discover that the market is rising and you're profitable by just holding it without trading, this is just on a single approach, there are other things we may also consider, because no one is there claiming all those lost coins except when being hacked or scammed.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Hamza2424 on October 31, 2024, 01:49:27 PM

4 millions is just a registered number the actual numbers will be more than this surely.

What do you mean by "registered number"?
The 4 millions which was mentioned by OP was just an estimation and he/she didn't even mention any source for that. There is no way to know how many bitcoins have been lost due to the people losing access to the private keys.

Hamza2424

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Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

Hello friends, this is my first discussion on the forum, and it's a pleasure to be part of this environment

I've always had a big question about the bitcoins in wallets that were lost over time. Of course, this is not something to worry about right now, but when will the limit of bitcoins be mined be reached? The circulation limit of the asset will not be just 21 million (value estimated by the system), it will be 21 million minus the bitcoins lost in wallets, which according to studies, is almost 4 million lost coins. This value will probably increase significantly as the year goes on.

What could happen to these lost bitcoins? Will they continue to be lost in "limbo" Huh

They will be lost in Limbo nice word BTW, they will be considered burned which means they're being lost is good for the demand and supply ratio of the BTC and its hype. You are right more people will still be losing their BTC and some are trying hard to find their lost BTC and even some are suing other companies to allow them to search the scrapyard. If we measure in terms of ratio that either people have lost more than the people have recovered then the ratio is high.

Nothing will happen to them they just sit in their addresses and the seed phrases and they will sit there till end they won't expire. 4 millions is just a registered number the actual numbers will be more than this surely.

Finestream

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Lost coins are lost forever. Which means once access is lost, it will clearly be regarded as irreversible. Not your keys, not your coins, so if you have forgotten or lost your private keys, that coins will probably be one's ownership already.

However, in cases where the device where the private keys is kept becomes damaged or ruined, but there's back-up available, then those lost coins will never be lost forever, but will be retrieved anytime.

NotATether

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on October 31, 2024, 04:12:28 AM

Quote from: fikrett on October 31, 2024, 03:58:28 AM

Even if we speculate - how a person not associated with them would be able to find the keys?

I think you misunderstood NotATether.
NotATether means that it may possible to get access to lost coins, if there are some information about the lost private keys or seed phrases.

Let's say you have a 12 word seed phrase. You know 7 words with their correct positions and you have lost 5 words. Now, you can't access your coins, but it may be possible that you brute-force the seed phrase one day.

Another example being if some desparate person had half of his seed phrase burned and posts a picture of the other half online in the hopes that someone can find it.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: fikrett on October 31, 2024, 03:58:28 AM

Even if we speculate - how a person not associated with them would be able to find the keys?

I think you misunderstood NotATether.
NotATether means that it may possible to get access to lost coins, if there are some information about the lost private keys or seed phrases.

Let's say you have a 12 word seed phrase. You know 7 words with their correct positions and you have lost 5 words. Now, you can't access your coins, but it may be possible that you brute-force the seed phrase one day.

fikrett

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Quote from: NotATether on October 31, 2024, 03:27:57 AM

Only if said lost coins have had some shred of their private key or seed phrase exposed, or any other fragment that would allow signing a spending transaction from it.

Don't see it happening, though, so they may be marked as lost to the cause of BTC being more scarce in the long run.
Even if we speculate - how a person not associated with them would be able to find the keys?

NotATether

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Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on October 31, 2024, 12:30:46 AM

When something is lost, it means you can not have access to it again, unless you luckily find what can grant you access to what you have lost. The possibility of losing your Bitcoin is if you no longer have access to your private key and it was an act that was very common years back, probably because Bitcoiners of that time didn't know that Bitcoin will become very appreciative to what it is today.

And also, among other things, happened when the various wallet websites and exchanges shut down, taking many people's assets with them.

Like Mt.Gox, BTC-e, or all of those blockchain.info wallets that were obsoleted by their new trading system.

Quote from: BitcoinHoarder on October 29, 2024, 12:28:07 PM

Given enough time, lost coins will be reclaimed by technology that is able to claim them.

Only if said lost coins have had some shred of their private key or seed phrase exposed, or any other fragment that would allow signing a spending transaction from it.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: sunsilk on October 30, 2024, 03:44:20 AM

Nope, including the lost Bitcoins they will be all 21 million.

To be more accurate:
The exact number of bitcoins (including the lost ones) will be 20999999.9769

Quote from: Dr.Bitcoin_Strange on October 31, 2024, 12:30:46 AM

So, nobody can have access to their lost Bitcoin. Satoshi once said that lost Bitcoin should be considered a donation for the growth of the technology.

Satoshi never said that the lost bitcoins will help the growth of technology. Satoshi said that "Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more." and that means that it makes the price grow, not the technology.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

What could happen to these lost bitcoins? Will they continue to be lost in "limbo" Huh

When something is lost, it means you can not have access to it again, unless you luckily find what can grant you access to what you have lost. The possibility of losing your Bitcoin is if you no longer have access to your private key and it was an act that was very common years back, probably because Bitcoiners of that time didn't know that Bitcoin will become very appreciative to what it is today.

So, nobody can have access to their lost Bitcoin. Satoshi once said that lost Bitcoin should be considered a donation for the growth of the technology.

sunsilk

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Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

but when will the limit of bitcoins be mined be reached?

Around 2140, based on estimations.

Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

The circulation limit of the asset will not be just 21 million (value estimated by the system), it will be 21 million minus the bitcoins lost in wallets, which according to studies, is almost 4 million lost coins. This value will probably increase significantly as the year goes on.

Nope, including the lost Bitcoins they will be all 21 million. So, if there was 4 million bitcoins lost forever then plus 17 million supply, in total of 21 million bitcoins will be mined until that year when it will be lastly mined.

Just to give a note, according to coinmarketcap: we have 19,775,137 BTC in circulation already. And with all of the lost bitcoins, if they're totally lost then they're gone forever unless someone is just fooling around trying to pretend they've lost it and then will access it later on.

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Quote from: Frankolala on October 29, 2024, 08:44:39 AM

Bitcoin that is lost and cannot be recovered by the owners for some reason, will be as charity to the bitcoin community, and that will add to the value of bitcoin, because it will limit the quantity of bitcoin within the reach of people. This is why you need to backup your seed phrase in three locations far from each other to avoid a total lost, because you will not have access to your wallet anymore, and your bitcoin will be locked forever in the blockchain.

This is the price of decentralization, if you lose your private keys, there's no centralized office to help you to recover them, meaning that your BTC is lost forever. It will become a donation to the Bitcoin network and there's nothing you can do about it. I've given my own donation to the network due to my negligence as a newbie then, and I don't hope to donate again, I'm not that charitable Grin

. Being a sole custodian of your coins is a huge responsibility because your private keys are the only access that you have to the coins.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 30, 2024, 12:01:26 AM

1. Coins sent to a provably unspendable output

There are more coins provably lost.
As I said in my previous post, some coins were lost due to miners not claiming the block reward and some were lost due to the coinbase transactions having the same hashes.

pooya87

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It depends what you mean by "lost coins". Usually people confuse coins that haven't moved for a long time with lost coins. If it is the former, they are not lost and what happens is that they eventually move! If it is the later then Satoshi already answered your question:

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

Feel free to read the rest of that topic as well.

Basically coins that are lost are:
1. Coins sent to a provably unspendable output
This includes the OP_RETURN outputs, broken outputs (eg. OP_HASH160 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG) and burn addresses. These are lost forever and it is impossible to spend them.

2. Coins in a wallet/address with lost key
This could be a paper wallet that was lost, a digital wallet (eg. wallet.dat file) that was lost due to hardware damage, encryption password that was forgotten, etc. These are lost forever unless the user remembers their password, finds their paper wallet, etc.

Maslate

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Lost Bitcoin stays lost unless recovered, so technically, the total supply remains 21 million. But with lost Bitcoin, the actual accessible supply decreases, which could have a positive effect on the market. Basic rule: when demand is high and supply is limited, prices go up. Over time, as more Bitcoin is lost, its value could keep rising. However, we don’t want this happening, as it’s not ideal for the ecosystem. Let’s just hope more Bitcoin holders learn how to secure their assets.

hugeblack

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Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

What could happen to these lost bitcoins? Will they continue to be lost in "limbo" Huh

You don't need to worry about these lost bitcoins if 1 bitcoin is 100,000,000 satoshis or less than 2.1 quadrillion Wink

. Also, unlike the bitcoins that are sent to proof-of-burn addresses, we cannot be sure that these bitcoins are lost,

SilverCryptoBullet

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Quote from: ? on October 29, 2024, 08:28:42 AM

I've always had a big question about the bitcoins in wallets that were lost over time.

Many reasons for losing bitcoins: in your non custodial wallets by did not have wallet backups, lost your wallet backups; or in accounts on centralized platforms that can be hacked, bankrupted like Mt.Gox or scam exchanges.

Quote from: satoshi on June 21, 2010, 12:48:26 PM

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.

Topic: [DISCUSSION] What will happen to the "lost" bitcoins? - page 2. (Read 628 times)