Ditching US dollar - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

pooya87

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Quote from: WillyAp on January 02, 2024, 09:13:10 AM

I have seen a little of the world and many pariah states deserve that title.

Your opinion of other countries has nothing to do with ditching the dollar or economy for that matter.

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The financial turmoil in 2008 was due to excesses and a lax executive control.

The economic crisis of 2008 was caused exactly because of what the US banking system was doing which is the definition a Ponzi scheme. The worst part is that it was not and still is not the only case of Ponzi scheme...

WillyAp

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 02, 2024, 09:05:32 AM

Of course any country that seeks to "ditch the dollar" becomes a pariah state in the eyes of the printers of the dollar Grin

Well that is shortsighted at best.
I have seen a little of the world and many pariah states deserve that title.

Countries where judicial and executive are one and the same are exactly that.

The financial turmoil in 2008 was due to excesses and a lax executive control.
Some go that far to say that was due to politics benefitting from it.

Most accusations lack sources though, so they are gossip, not more nor less.

pooya87

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Quote from: WillyAp on December 31, 2023, 09:01:18 AM

The US stands for stability, or at least for more stability than the BRICS States.

US has not have stability for a very long time. Its economy has also been too fragile, basically ever since they turned into a Ponzi scheme; we saw its fragility in 2008 and those who woke up created an an exit called Bitcoin. Now more people are waking up and are making another centralized exit called BRICS.

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BRICS States are a club of paria States.

Of course any country that seeks to "ditch the dollar" becomes a pariah state in the eyes of the printers of the dollar Grin

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Why do you think it is trillions of $ in trades?

One word: Petrodollar

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Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 27, 2023, 10:11:43 AM

what do you think this movement will help both countries? will It has any bad impact on US dollar?

This clearly helps because from the start Russia had prepared this plan long ago, and why it all started when it attacked Ukraine. At that time many people thought that Russia would experience an economic crisis as a result of wasting its aggressive costs but up to now they appear to be getting stronger and more transparent in opposing the US Dollar. Meanwhile Iran in this case still doesn't like the US, which has always interfered in its affairs in the past. With Russia of course Iran will benefit because it is pushing their goal of creating a new currency with a system that is not tied to the dollar. Capitalizing on natural resources which play an important role in various countries is able to pressure them to take new payment options.

Is the US threatened? In general whether we admit it or not, we feel threatened and will lose sources of support from various countries that are moving from the dollar to the new currency that BRICS is creating. Don't think that the US is fine and is still thought to be able to cover this up.

davis196

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Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 27, 2023, 10:11:43 AM

Iran and Russia both are big source of oil, supplying oil to many countries. Both countries are economically strong and have a very good relationship. Russia is also part of BRICS while Iran will join in the Jan 2024.

Now news come out that both countries are trying to ditch US dollar for which they have now planned to trade in local currencies. what do you think this movement will help both countries? will It has any bad impact on US dollar?

Why do I have the feeling that this is old news from 2022? Everybody knows that Russia and Iran are anti-USA. Ditching the US dollar seems like common sense for those two countries, especially after all the western sanctions, that were imposed over both Russia and Iran.
Will this move help both countries? I don't think that it will have any major impact over their economies. The economies of Russia and Iran will be fine with or without the US dollar.
Will this move have any impact over the US dollar? I guess that it might have a small negative impact. The US dollar won't collapse anytime soon, but it's role in global trading will decrease slowly.

traderethereum

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I don't know whether this movement will help both countries or not but the US dollar still dominates the economy today. It's hard to throw away the US dollar when the US is as powerful as it is now.
It might work for local trade but it might not be easy for international trade because other countries still use the US dollar as a benchmark for payment in many businesses.
Maybe this won't have a bad impact on the US dollar because there are still many countries that use the US dollar. But if more countries will ditch the dollar, the US must find a way to get through it.
However, if more countries do it, it will slowly disturb the US dollar. If the US doesn't realize it, it will impact the US.
We'll see what the impact of what Iran and Russia will have.

khiholangkang

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Quote from: wxa7115 on January 01, 2024, 01:52:12 AM

Quote from: khiholangkang on December 31, 2023, 08:44:55 PM

Some of these countries are not just experimenting, they have tried several times in the past years and they are working seriously by continuing to recruit countries that are fed up with having the dollar for various reasons. They are using new things like using their local currency for transactions, and the Yuan is being offered among the BRICS as a means of transaction.

Replacing the top of the economic chain is not an easy thing to do in just a few years, they need a long time and need a lot of effort to reach the highest level as the top economy and dominate the global economy with a new payment system and tool to become a global currency that is considered better than before.

To be honest, there is something that I am afraid of in global movements like this, judging from every century of leadership transitions as the ruler of the world, always the highest country will not be willing to give up its throne just like that, this will cause conflicts that can trigger major conflicts like before. I have noticed that political tensions are heating up, and countries are increasingly showing their strength to each other.

Conflicts are definitely coming and some may say the current instability around the world is just a symptom of this, so we cannot really expect to see some kind of orderly transition from the current system to a new one, assuming it were to happen soon.

Besides we do not know what that new system will entail, as if there is any indication it does not seems as if governments want to leave the fiat system behind and this is simply a battle to see who is at the top, but even if the system changed it is unlikely we will move towards something that benefited the people, and instead we may see even more restrictions imposed upon us with the use of CBDCs.

I think you understand what I am saying, but I am more referring to the new ruler who will dominate the global market, not about CBDC, but that is a narrative that will be built on the same schedule in the current global transition.

But at the core what I mean is that the strongest ruler of the world economy, which is currently the US with its dollar, will try as hard as possible to maintain its position, on the other hand when they will experience defeat or shift as the leader of the global economy with its dollar, basically the dollar will no longer be in demand. And when it is replaced with a new ruler, it is likely that the US will rebel which may create conflict, just as the Soviet Union as the strongest and most powerful country before it could be defeated. and that was through the process of war conflict. and something like this has the potential to happen again, as the new power that will replace the US and its fiat money system (dollar) so far.

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Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 27, 2023, 10:11:43 AM

what do you think this movement will help both countries? will It has any bad impact on US dollar?

The countries included in BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) are trying to gain independence from the US dollar which is the reserve currency the US dollar being the reserve currency benefits the USA a lot greater than we think because they are the reserve currency of course they have lower exchange rate and additionally they also have a really strong purchasing power

De-dollarization has been going on for a few years back and with greater progress this will definitely hit USA’s economy however this de-dollarization is happening very slowly so right now there is still no concrete effect that we can see in the USA

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This de-dollarization attempt by the BRICS countries have been around for years, but it has only recently been aggresively pushed by some of the countries in BRICS.

One of the major reasons why they are pushing for it are the sanctions from the West (including the USA) .. so these countries wants to ditch SWIFT payments to bypass the restrictions that are applied to their international transactions.

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on January 01, 2024, 12:16:06 PM

They have already tried two currencies right? Maybe I'm wrong and it is just one currency but my point is, if they want to create a new power by combining these countries, then currency should not be an issue if it is not a native currency used by one particular country. Chinese Yuan and Indian rupee has already been used for the transactions and it didn't work out. And if they are trying to create a new power, they won't stop trying which will be the best. Maybe an entire new currency backed by something else.
At this point, whether you like it or not it has become a trial and error concept already. Maybe not the first try but the second try they will come back after doing everything perfectly. It's just how I think and it does not have to be 100% accurate. It could also play out the way you have described it. So let's see what the future holds for them.

I would guess that it is not really going to work out in the end because the whole world structure is based on the dollar. Like when you are considering what the barrel of an oil is, do you really consider it in any other currency? You talk about it in dollar terms, that's just the reality and we need to consider that as the most important thing.

I personally believe that we need to consider dollar as there to stay and not going to leave anytime soon. And the only way dollar would not be used as the biggest currency, would not come from other nations, it would only be possible if the empire falls within itself, you do not attack and defeat an empire, you let it destroy itself and then slowly it will destroy itself overtime, so USA would tell you when dollar is bad.

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Quote from: SamReomo on December 27, 2023, 02:10:50 PM

If I'm not wrong then both of those countries are in the group of country that have bad relations with the United States and they relations will continue to suffer due to difference in opinion and use of power. It's strange to see that Russia and Iran are still using US dollar to do their trading but surely the USD is the international currency and using it for trading makes sense.

However, now if they switch to BRICS or may accept each other's own fiat currencies for trading purpose then it's going to be a good thing for those countries but I don't think that it will impact the dollar in any way at all. the US dollar will continue to show its dominance but maybe in future BRICS might compete it in ASIAN zone.

The decreasing dominance of the US dollar is constantly on the agenda, and the US dollar completely dominated the markets in previous years. Now the countries in BRICS will abandon the dollar for trade, perhaps other states will follow suit. Many people say that the US dollar will become worthless in the very near future. The US dollar will definitely be affected by this situation, but the important thing is how much it will be affected.

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Quote from: CODE200 on January 01, 2024, 03:51:41 AM

Good luck ditching the widely used currency for global markets because doing so would effectively shut them out of a lot of countries that won't compromise to their preferred currency, isn't that what's going to happen to them right?

They could use the $ and their homebrew Currency.
Why only use one?

tjtonmoy

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Quote from: Hispo on December 31, 2023, 07:45:08 PM

~Snip

They have already tried two currencies right? Maybe I'm wrong and it is just one currency but my point is, if they want to create a new power by combining these countries, then currency should not be an issue if it is not a native currency used by one particular country. Chinese Yuan and Indian rupee has already been used for the transactions and it didn't work out. And if they are trying to create a new power, they won't stop trying which will be the best. Maybe an entire new currency backed by something else.
At this point, whether you like it or not it has become a trial and error concept already. Maybe not the first try but the second try they will come back after doing everything perfectly. It's just how I think and it does not have to be 100% accurate. It could also play out the way you have described it. So let's see what the future holds for them.

CODE200

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Good luck ditching the widely used currency for global markets because doing so would effectively shut them out of a lot of countries that won't compromise to their preferred currency, isn't that what's going to happen to them right? They have less countries to trade with if they ditch US dollar. Also, if they ever do that, wouldn't US Foreign Affairs or some US agency that deals with this will do their work on trying to make sure that this plan would be a failure for those that's going to participate right? One thing that I know about US is that it's got a really good foreign policy measures so I know that this isn't going to go as smoothly as planned.

wxa7115

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Quote from: khiholangkang on December 31, 2023, 08:44:55 PM

Some of these countries are not just experimenting, they have tried several times in the past years and they are working seriously by continuing to recruit countries that are fed up with having the dollar for various reasons. They are using new things like using their local currency for transactions, and the Yuan is being offered among the BRICS as a means of transaction.

Replacing the top of the economic chain is not an easy thing to do in just a few years, they need a long time and need a lot of effort to reach the highest level as the top economy and dominate the global economy with a new payment system and tool to become a global currency that is considered better than before.

To be honest, there is something that I am afraid of in global movements like this, judging from every century of leadership transitions as the ruler of the world, always the highest country will not be willing to give up its throne just like that, this will cause conflicts that can trigger major conflicts like before. I have noticed that political tensions are heating up, and countries are increasingly showing their strength to each other.

Conflicts are definitely coming and some may say the current instability around the world is just a symptom of this, so we cannot really expect to see some kind of orderly transition from the current system to a new one, assuming it were to happen soon.

Besides we do not know what that new system will entail, as if there is any indication it does not seems as if governments want to leave the fiat system behind and this is simply a battle to see who is at the top, but even if the system changed it is unlikely we will move towards something that benefited the people, and instead we may see even more restrictions imposed upon us with the use of CBDCs.

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Quote from: hd49728 on December 31, 2023, 11:31:57 PM

Quote from: tjtonmoy on December 31, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

The US. dollar has its purchasing power decreases over time. However, is it make this fiat currency worse than other fiat currencies from other central banks?

There is nothing wrong to make trials and errors to dedollarisation because some nations want to build up something which can be tools for them to break the domination of USA. and its fiat currency. Will the succeed or fail, with BRICS is a biggest attempt so far, we will see it in future like next 10 years?

Quote from: Hispo on December 31, 2023, 07:45:08 PM

I would be willing to speculate that not even in this incoming year the BRICS will issue their currency, they are either trying to recruit more members or they realize their are such a heterogenous group of countries that a common currency would not benefit them as much as people believe.

To succeed, those nations participate in the attempt must have their strong economy. China and Russia are one of countries with big economy sizes but I disagree if saying their economies are sustainable and strong. China is affected by deflation which is worse than inflation and Russia solely relies on their income from oil sales and energy industry.

India, China and Brazil could singlehandlely synchronize their economies and their centrals banks to create the BRICS currency and only them being allowed to control the supply of the FIAT while the rest of the members get strong enough to benefit from it. China's problem would be that they cannot allow their official currency to gain much value, otherwise they would lose competitivity in the international manufacturing markets, I am sure the rest of the BRICS would not feel happy about China devaluing their common currency for the sake of then own competitivity, because of it, it is very unlikely China will replace the Yuan. If China does not use the new currency then it would be fair to say we would be talking about a project without a real porpuse if one of the biggest members of the organization won't even give use to their initiative of FIAT.
Because of things like that is why I highly doubt we will ever see that new FIAT soon and the hegemony of the American dollar will continue for many years. Even if some gold backed currency appeared, that initiative would still require trust in the gold reserves, which not all countries have.

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on December 31, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

The US. dollar has its purchasing power decreases over time. However, is it make this fiat currency worse than other fiat currencies from other central banks?

There is nothing wrong to make trials and errors to dedollarisation because some nations want to build up something which can be tools for them to break the domination of USA. and its fiat currency. Will the succeed or fail, with BRICS is a biggest attempt so far, we will see it in future like next 10 years?

Quote from: Hispo on December 31, 2023, 07:45:08 PM

I would be willing to speculate that not even in this incoming year the BRICS will issue their currency, they are either trying to recruit more members or they realize their are such a heterogenous group of countries that a common currency would not benefit them as much as people believe.

To succeed, those nations participate in the attempt must have their strong economy. China and Russia are one of countries with big economy sizes but I disagree if saying their economies are sustainable and strong. China is affected by deflation which is worse than inflation and Russia solely relies on their income from oil sales and energy industry.

khiholangkang

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on December 31, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

Quote from: Hispo on December 30, 2023, 08:11:31 PM

I am still pretty skeptical on the USD being replaced in the short of mid term by countries within the BRICS or outside the BRICS, it has been decades of dominance by the United States and its allies, it wont easy to break free from it, not as easy has many people on this forum make it sound.

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

Some of these countries are not just experimenting, they have tried several times in the past years and they are working seriously by continuing to recruit countries that are fed up with having the dollar for various reasons. They are using new things like using their local currency for transactions, and the Yuan is being offered among the BRICS as a means of transaction.

Replacing the top of the economic chain is not an easy thing to do in just a few years, they need a long time and need a lot of effort to reach the highest level as the top economy and dominate the global economy with a new payment system and tool to become a global currency that is considered better than before.

To be honest, there is something that I am afraid of in global movements like this, judging from every century of leadership transitions as the ruler of the world, always the highest country will not be willing to give up its throne just like that, this will cause conflicts that can trigger major conflicts like before. I have noticed that political tensions are heating up, and countries are increasingly showing their strength to each other.

Hispo

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on December 31, 2023, 01:25:38 PM

Quote from: Hispo on December 30, 2023, 08:11:31 PM

-

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

Actually, I am not sure whether it is about trial and error, when comes to macroeconomics and issuing a currency which is supposed to gain more trust than the United States Dollar then the BRICS is supposed to plan and execute all in the perfect way, behave they may have not another opportunity to try. Because what would happen if the tried once and people would not trust and rejected the idea of their currency because they did something wrong? If the BRICS members tried againz then the trust would be already lost and even fewer nations (non-members) would be willing to give BRICS' currency a chance.

I would be willing to speculate that not even in this incoming year the BRICS will issue their currency, they are either trying to recruit more members or they realize their are such a heterogenous group of countries that a common currency would not benefit them as much as people believe.

tjtonmoy

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Quote from: Hispo on December 30, 2023, 08:11:31 PM

I am still pretty skeptical on the USD being replaced in the short of mid term by countries within the BRICS or outside the BRICS, it has been decades of dominance by the United States and its allies, it wont easy to break free from it, not as easy has many people on this forum make it sound.

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

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