Do Bitcoins have Tax?? - page 7. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Positid

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on January 03, 2017, 06:21:51 PM

Quote from: GMPoison on January 02, 2017, 06:52:11 PM

In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote

Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply. Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

But I think there are different rules of taxation in every country. I was thinking about those who falls under tax exemption range. I bet their bitcoin holding won't be taxed by the government

. I think those who have a huge stash of Bitcoin are putting this ideology in a commoner minds so that they have someone to support them. They say no to government tax lol but wanted to have a good society and well developed country.

There are different rules but they are unified with the fact that once you are earning money you to give a fair share to the government.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: GMPoison on January 02, 2017, 06:52:11 PM

In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote

Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply. Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

But I think there are different rules of taxation in every country. I was thinking about those who falls under tax exemption range. I bet their bitcoin holding won't be taxed by the government

. I think those who have a huge stash of Bitcoin are putting this ideology in a commoner minds so that they have someone to support them. They say no to government tax lol but wanted to have a good society and well developed country.

care2yak

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Quote from: 1Referee on January 03, 2017, 05:47:51 AM

Quote from: richardsNY on January 02, 2017, 06:43:52 PM

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.

Governments indeed won't find out what you are hiding, but the recent news of the IRS and Coinbase is just a first sign of what governments are going to do in the coming years. If we don't declare our coins, and I am sure the far majority won't be doing that, then the governments will come after us by forcing exchanges to hand over every bit of important user information. I just wonder what the next actions of the governments will be once they investigate user information. I think they will force people to pay tax plus a penalty for tax evasion. It's an extremely sad outcome if this turns out to be reality, but governments see tax evasion as a serious crime.

Yes, I think it's being done in my country already. We have a wallet/exchange here called coins.ph which I think is a subwallet of coinbase.

A user will have to go through verification processes - from ID, to address, phone, and business verifications - when signing up with them. Once you get verified on all these plus link your coinbase wallet, your cash in and withdrawal limits get upgraded to the highest possible amount of bitcoins and cash you can withdraw or deposit on a 24-hour basis.

They may also ask you to go through a skype interview if they aren't convinced by documents you've submitted. So anonymity of users don't actually exist here -- if you signed up with them.

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Quote from: cryptomium on January 02, 2017, 06:46:44 PM

It is established that bitcoin itself have no tax. Bitcoin transaction has fee but no tax. Probably bitcoin will have tax when the government implement taxation on exchanges and charge when you convert bitcoin.

The exchange websites that are legally operating to a certain country are obliged to pay their tax but that is no because of bitcoins taxation but they are registered as a business body in their country. Usually the fees that we are paying when we cashout or convert with them are already taxed subject to their compliance of taxation.

Exactly. So it's also mean that we're as bitcoin users indirectly paying all those taxes when converting our bitcoin to local fiat thus we're not avoiding any taxes. The taxes for bitcoin users still pretty low and rare due to lack of regulation about it so, it's not our mistake or our fault to not fully paying the taxes

1Referee

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Quote from: richardsNY on January 02, 2017, 06:43:52 PM

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.

Governments indeed won't find out what you are hiding, but the recent news of the IRS and Coinbase is just a first sign of what governments are going to do in the coming years. If we don't declare our coins, and I am sure the far majority won't be doing that, then the governments will come after us by forcing exchanges to hand over every bit of important user information. I just wonder what the next actions of the governments will be once they investigate user information. I think they will force people to pay tax plus a penalty for tax evasion. It's an extremely sad outcome if this turns out to be reality, but governments see tax evasion as a serious crime.

VeneVici

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Quote from: deppil on January 03, 2017, 05:32:12 AM

Quote from: royalfestus on January 03, 2017, 12:00:53 AM

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

calm down mate, despite the government giving tax on bitcoin users in the country, you can easily avoid it. because bitcoin anonymous so they will not know that you bitcoin users from that country

Not if they will ask the ISP for keywords/websites you're accessing, it's quite easy to find out about it. The hard part here is that they need to then prove who accessed the respective wallet, but it wouldn't be a surprise for me to see this happening at all.

deppil

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Quote from: royalfestus on January 03, 2017, 12:00:53 AM

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

calm down mate, despite the government giving tax on bitcoin users in the country, you can easily avoid it. because bitcoin anonymous so they will not know that you bitcoin users from that country

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Quote from: Botnake on January 03, 2017, 12:17:49 AM

Quote from: GMPoison on January 03, 2017, 12:10:30 AM

Quote from: royalfestus on January 03, 2017, 12:00:53 AM

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.

It's not necessary to tell them that you are earning bitcoin because time will come if your country is not yet regulated about bitcoins, the government are surely making rules to regulate bitcoin, and when the rules will come out, we have no option but to comply with it, it is not voluntary anymore but compulsory.

The question isn't "can they ban bitcoin", it's "can a ban on bitcoin be effective?" The answer is no. It's decentralized. There is nothing a government or corporation can do to "ban" bitcoin. It's out of their control entirely. Rather than try to fight it I think govts will try to support it, because that's their only option. This realization is scary though because of the potential this technology has and what it could mean for governments and corporations. That's why no one knows what is going to happen. Me personally? I think it's going to start a revolution.

Botnake

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Quote from: GMPoison on January 03, 2017, 12:10:30 AM

Quote from: royalfestus on January 03, 2017, 12:00:53 AM

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.

It's not necessary to tell them that you are earning bitcoin because time will come if your country is not yet regulated about bitcoins, the government are surely making rules to regulate bitcoin, and when the rules will come out, we have no option but to comply with it, it is not voluntary anymore but compulsory.

GMPoison

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Quote from: royalfestus on January 03, 2017, 12:00:53 AM

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.

royalfestus

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If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.

GMPoison

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In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote

Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply. Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

cryptomium

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It is established that bitcoin itself have no tax. Bitcoin transaction has fee but no tax. Probably bitcoin will have tax when the government implement taxation on exchanges and charge when you convert bitcoin.

darkangel11

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Quote from: EdenHazard on January 02, 2017, 06:40:00 PM

Quote from: lol3c on January 02, 2017, 10:32:07 AM

Quote from: iqlimasyadiqa on January 02, 2017, 10:23:12 AM

Quote from: BingoDog on January 01, 2017, 07:01:47 AM

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.

I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.

The government should not exist on this planet since all they can do is stealing and robbing money from citizens. They want to control everything and who disobey will be punished. Bitcoin will help us to against the centralized system. Tax will soon be vanished

they are collecting money from you, from citizens for a common interest .

government do it for a good reason , it is just the matter of are your government corrupt or not? if you have a honest government you will feel how much the benefit paying tax , otherwise you will just feel annoying , that is your corrupt government fault.

Most governments are corrupt. I've just read about corruption on the highest level of the EU. If the leaders are working to protect the rich companies from paying taxes, why should the citizens do it?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/01/jean-claude-juncker-blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show

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Quote from: mrkevio on January 02, 2017, 06:25:47 PM

Quote from: coinplus on January 02, 2017, 02:49:53 PM

Quote from: BeManga on December 30, 2016, 07:40:37 PM

Quote from: Jemzx00 on February 11, 2016, 10:40:17 AM

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??

if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner

The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.

And.. doesn't that affect our anonymity? Isn't this one of the reasons we're here right now for? If I wanted to be identified by anybody I'd use some other very popular payment methods I can use like everywhere around us. For using Bitcoin I need to go in another country because mine doesn't have like any service you can pay with BTC at. I understand companies need to be taxed (e.g. Microsoft gets their BTC earnings taxed), but not our private wallets.

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.

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Quote from: lol3c on January 02, 2017, 10:32:07 AM

Quote from: iqlimasyadiqa on January 02, 2017, 10:23:12 AM

Quote from: BingoDog on January 01, 2017, 07:01:47 AM

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.

I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.

The government should not exist on this planet since all they can do is stealing and robbing money from citizens. They want to control everything and who disobey will be punished. Bitcoin will help us to against the centralized system. Tax will soon be vanished

they are collecting money from you, from citizens for a common interest .

government do it for a good reason , it is just the matter of are your government corrupt or not? if you have a honest government you will feel how much the benefit paying tax , otherwise you will just feel annoying , that is your corrupt government fault.

mrkevio

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Quote from: coinplus on January 02, 2017, 02:49:53 PM

Quote from: BeManga on December 30, 2016, 07:40:37 PM

Quote from: Jemzx00 on February 11, 2016, 10:40:17 AM

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??

if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner

The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.

And.. doesn't that affect our anonymity? Isn't this one of the reasons we're here right now for? If I wanted to be identified by anybody I'd use some other very popular payment methods I can use like everywhere around us. For using Bitcoin I need to go in another country because mine doesn't have like any service you can pay with BTC at. I understand companies need to be taxed (e.g. Microsoft gets their BTC earnings taxed), but not our private wallets.

coinplus

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Quote from: BeManga on December 30, 2016, 07:40:37 PM

Quote from: Jemzx00 on February 11, 2016, 10:40:17 AM

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??

if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner

The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.

Tipsters

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Quote from: R3ffun on December 31, 2016, 10:14:15 AM

Quote from: Jemzx00 on February 11, 2016, 10:40:17 AM

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??

ya , you alright . bitcoin does not have tax ..
because bitcoin not things can see real like bussines..

On the contrary, bitcoin can be a business. There's a lot of ways on which bitcoin can be a business. One of them would be trading.
Bitcoin can't really be seen yet it does exist. Since just like the OP said "it's a internet currency".
Bitcoin doesn't really has a tax since it's just a currency. But transacting it has tax such as we call fees. Tax in bitcoin can be included too on the following:
•Cashing-In •Cashing-Out •Transacting it •Fees •Etc,.

manselr

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Quote from: 1Referee on December 31, 2016, 01:55:37 AM

Quote from: Vaskiy on December 30, 2016, 06:27:04 PM

Tax free usage seems to be one among the major attention seeker, but when taxes were imposed sure government holds control over bitcoin. This will make it similar to other currencies, only it gets the digital form. Till date taxation is not possible with bitcoin transactions.

Governments won't ever have the ability to directly tax Bitcoin. It doesn't really matter what you are using. If you have something with value, then it simply adds up to your wealth. If it allows you to buy and sell with profits, then it is like you are making profit in general. In both cases you have to pay tax over what you hold and gained in profit. Name of the tool isn't important, the value that it holds is. Difference here is that Bitcoin simply allows people to hide a part of their wealth, where the government doesn't know who or what is holding which amount. They only know it if you declare everything in a honest manner. But who is gonna do so?

Governments can, and will find out that you have bitcoins IF you used exchanges to buy them. Look at the Coinbase incident for instance, they requested all the data to pass it to the IRS. Maybe they cannot find out what happened to the bitcoins you bought, maybe they can't find them, BUT they have a registry that said "this guy bought X bitcoins at X date". They know that, so you will be forced to give some sort of explanation if they demand it, and that is the question... what do you say? you can't just play dumb, since you willingly bought the bitcoin.

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