Do coins get lost at a bigger rate than they are created?

Hazir

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

1. You can't have good system protecting bitcoin network from 'loss' of bitcoin.
2. There is no way to tell that user of long unused wallet is being patient with his coins or is - for example already dead.
3. Lost coins are not a problem at all, it will make every other coin worth slightly more.
4. "Production" of bitcoins is constant and can't be changed.

DOGE12321

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I am pretty sure that around 2,000 BTC are generated every 24 hours. If you look at the statistics, it is unreasonable to lose more than 2,000 BTC every day. We only hear about, people losing their passwords or backup hardware occasionally.

Therefore, I personally, believe that we can’t lose more Bitcoin than that is actually generated.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: johnnyyash on August 11, 2016, 04:01:42 AM

Quote from: nejibens on August 10, 2016, 08:57:56 PM

Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

I don't think so, i think the number of the lost coins is a lot less than the mined and generated coins everyday, there is hundreds of coins generated in daily basis.

coins are been generated everyday lots, so in this dont think they are loss...the loss ones are more....because everyminiute and everyday bitcoin go round been mined..

the concern is not about the number lost against the number being created, yeah obviously at this point there are a lot of coins being created each day and it is a lot more than the rate of loss.

if don't know about OP but the real concern is about how many is going to be lost from the total 21 million coins, and is there going to be enough left over for everybody if bitcoin becomes famous enough.

and to answer that you have to know two things: the number of coins lost/destroyed is nothing to worry about because it is not that much yet. and also bitcoin is divisible (i don't know if it is called this or dividable) but it means you can have more than 8 decimal places so you have more satoshi in reality to cover the price and lost coins.

johnnyyash

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Quote from: nejibens on August 10, 2016, 08:57:56 PM

Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

I don't think so, i think the number of the lost coins is a lot less than the mined and generated coins everyday, there is hundreds of coins generated in daily basis.

coins are been generated everyday lots, so in this dont think they are loss...the loss ones are more....because everyminiute and everyday bitcoin go round been mined..

~Bitcoin~

legendary

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Actually 12.5 bitcoin is being generated right now every 10 minute and there is less chance for a loss of 12.5 bitcoin in the same time period due to missing password or lossing paper wallet information. So i don't think rate of lossing is higher than bitcoin reward that is geting mined.

Decoded

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I really really doubt it, unless people are intentionally losing their coins. Also because that if they get lost more often than they are created, then my coins should be lost.

Kakmakr

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The number of coins lost, will fluctuate over time. Some people might lose a shit load of coins at once in a fire or a harddrive will crash or people might just lose their paper wallets. < wrong storage methods > So thumb sucking numbers will be a poor method to calculate the amount of coins lost daily.

Most people will be too shy or embarrassed to report their lost coins on public forums or some of them are just shills, who are spreading false reports. ^hmmmmm^

pooya87

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

this is not such a serious problem with bitcoin.
usually those people who are losing bitcoin are not exactly holding hundreds of bitcoin but they usually have a very small amount which is nothing compared to the total available coins and the new coins that are being created everyday.

besides you have absolutely no way of saying how much bitcoin is being lost. all the numbers above me are pure speculation and can not be right.

nejibens

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

I don't think so, i think the number of the lost coins is a lot less than the mined and generated coins everyday, there is hundreds of coins generated in daily basis.

poplolnman

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Quote from: X7 on August 10, 2016, 07:35:06 PM

Most of the massive losses occurred in the early days, when people stored 20,000 BTC on old shitty hard drives and free time share USB keys.

yeah in 2013 ago there a lot of cases about missing hard drives , for example someone in london lost access to his hard drive containing 7,500 bitcoin worth 4 million pounds , he must regret it. in 2009 to 2011 bitcoin mining are earned thousands bitcoin a day and they just store it randomly due the price aren't so high like current price. noone knows how much bitcoin have lost exactly.

extrabyte

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

I think that the number of bitcoin generated is much larger rather the lost bitcoins, I'm not counting the hacked/stolen bitcoins because these are not lost but their owner has been changed without authorization, but even if we count them still the number of generated bitcoin is higher.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

But I can say it's not a lost but it's just saving in the cold storage without keys to open that, but rate the coins are generated is always bigger than the rate of the lost coins but I'd don't think so every 4 years is halving coming and the regenerated of coins is reduced.

X7

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Most of the massive losses occurred in the early days, when people stored 20,000 BTC on old shitty hard drives and free time share USB keys.

topiOleg

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Actually, I did not see such stories in a while (losing access to a lot of coins). People might losing access to fraction of Bitcoins, but there are a lot more Bitcoins generated daily (1800). Hard to imagine over 1800 Bitcoins are lost daily.

PeRo

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No, there is more Bitcoins generated daily than those which are lost. If more Bitcoins where dumped than generated, Bitcoin would dissappear sometime in the future. You are saying that it could be that over 1500 Bitcoins (around 9 million dolars!) is dumped every day? That is not near the truth, Bitcoins are dumped once in 2-3 months and not in such big amounts.

yayayo

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

No, that's not a realistic assumption. You have to consider that a high percentage of reportedly "lost" coins just changed ownership... Roll Eyes

Even if the private keys of all these coins are really lost, their number is far lower than the generation rate (approx. 75 coins per hour).

I also doubt that this will change in the foreseeable future. This holds true even when the generation rate drops further during the next halving events. Because Bitcoin's valuation will likely increase proportionally and the coins will be more widely distributed. This will reduce the average amount lost per holder.

ya.ya.yo!

gentlemand

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1800 coins a day would be a fearsome rate of loss. As a pure guess perhaps 10-50 a day go up in smoke when keys are lost when every user is added up. Lots still don't pay enough attention but it's likely to be piddling amounts per person.

However I'm sure eye-watering amounts were deleted or lost in the earliest days. When 50 BTC worth nothing were arriving every ten minutes like clockwork you would've been inclined to throw them around.

I wonder how many people here would've been diligent with them at the time. It's very easy to claim you'd cherish them in retrospect but at the time it was nothing more than a weird program that locked up your laptop and made it noisy while producing meaningless numbers.

pogress

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Quote from: oblivi on August 10, 2016, 02:37:01 PM

We don't stop seeing people saying how they lost passwords, hard drives and so on, losing coins forever.

Is this rate of coins being lost bigger than the rate coins are being generated at?

In my opinion the more value Bitcoin has, the less coins are lost. The most coins could be lost very early in Bitcoin history when one Bitcoin was worth under one dollar, but today people should have wallet backups when owning significant number of coins.

It will take a while before more coins are lost than distributed from subsidy to the Bitcoin miners. I guess 20-50 years.

AgentofCoin

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Quote from: Kprawn on August 10, 2016, 03:31:21 PM

4 BTC on average a day is a bit much, that accounts for 1460 bitcoins a year. In 4 years from now, we would be getting roughly 900 BTC per day and then 4 years after that 450 bitcoins. A loss of 4 Bitcoins per day, may amount to a lot of bitcoins over a 8 year period. We do not know exactly how much is lost and some coins are even burned on purpose. This is like burning money and throwing gold bars in a volcano. Roll Eyes

Technically, over time and if bitcoins increase in value, I would assume the average user would
have an even lower amount of btc within a single address.

For example, when a user now buys 1btc for 600USD, that is a lot for them and is probably within
one address. If that user loses control of that address, that user has lost 1btc.
But over time (many years from now) as the "block reward" decreases, the average user will, in theory,
only be able to buy a faction of that 1btc with 600USD, and will likely be in a single address.
If that future user loses control of this address, that user has lost fractions of 1btc.

So, in theory and IMO, over time, less bitcoins will be lost since value will increase and the average users
will only own factions of bitcoins. Now if you want to say how much "fiat" will be lost from those losses,
well that is a different question and could be very massive.

Most bitcoin "lost" are from the early days of mining and should decrease over time, IMO.

Kprawn

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4 BTC on average a day is a bit much, that accounts for 1460 bitcoins a year. In 4 years from now, we would be getting roughly 900 BTC per day and then 4 years after that 450 bitcoins. A loss of 4

Bitcoins per day, may amount to a lot of bitcoins over a 8 year period. We do not know exactly how much is lost and some coins are even burned on purpose. This is like burning money and throwing

gold bars in a volcano. Roll Eyes

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