Do I pay taxes when I sell an alt coin for bitcoin?

julius caesar

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Quote from: chaosfourever on August 08, 2017, 10:54:38 AM

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

for the mean time we are thinking of these tax as the transaction fees like everyone is saying, but believing or not, it is just a matter of difference in order to compare it to real taxes. Yet, we clearly understand where this taxes in crypto goes. For processing and managing millions of transaction every moment. I can say, yes it is comparable for you to pay taxes while making transaction.

8rch7

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about paying taxes from cryptocurrency, I think this depends on each country. each country has a different policy / regulation about cryptocurrency, so to find out if you have to pay taxes, and how much, you have to find out the regulations in your area.

MakeMoneyBtc

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When you make an exchange between bitcoin and altcoins you dont need to pay any taxes at all to the government because everything is completed within the exchange and it does involve real fiat. When you cash out your bitcoin or altcoins earning into USD or other currency you do have to pay different taxes depend g on the country you are living in

lunobird

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Quote from: OluwaTosin10 on April 01, 2019, 05:13:54 PM

Quote from: chaosfourever on August 08, 2017, 10:54:38 AM

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

I think the issue of tax depends on your locality country and their rules
But naturally I count the exchange platform fees as a form a tax payment

And if you use changelly and similar sites to buy bitcoin with fiat; you probably have to pay extra charges

In the united states you can deduct your fees the exchange charges you. However this is not a form of tax payment. It just slightly lowers your avg cost basis.

Exchange platform fees is not a form of tax payment. I don't care where you live. That's does not make any sense and no government or irs would let you get off that easy.

OluwaTosin10

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Quote from: chaosfourever on August 08, 2017, 10:54:38 AM

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

I think the issue of tax depends on your locality country and their rules
But naturally I count the exchange platform fees as a form a tax payment

And if you use changelly and similar sites to buy bitcoin with fiat; you probably have to pay extra charges

lunobird

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Quote from: ulhaq on April 01, 2019, 11:26:25 AM

Quote from: lunobird on March 31, 2019, 03:30:13 PM

Quote from: ulhaq on March 31, 2019, 01:37:05 PM

Quote from: lunobird on March 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/how-to-handle-your-bitcoin-and-crypto-losses-for-tax-purposes

By united states IRS tax laws, An alt coin to bitcoin trade is a taxable realized event. Regardless if you put the money in the bank or not.

According to what? There is no official IRS guidance that states that an altcoin to bitcoin trade is a realized event. Because random people posted their opinions on sites indexed by google does not mean it is so. And if you look at the official IRS guidance, it only mentions selling crypto for USD, and exchanging crypto for real assets (like a coffee), which ARE both taxable.

When stocks are sold, they are sold for USD, and then the proceeds are used to buy another stock. It is not comparable to a crypto-crypto trade. And stocks have real assets like land, buildings, equipment, intellectual property, employees, and so on, none of which exists in an altcoin. Tax professionals have no understanding of crypto. Many will admit that they cannot provide guidance. Others with no experience/understanding of crypto think an altcoin is like a share of a stock. So they can give advice which is wrong.

Like-kind has nothing to do with anything. It's for people exchanging land or property, or similar things. I cannot claim like-kind for stocks. If I was discussing stocks and brought up like-kind, it would mean nothing, just like like-kind for crypto means nothing.

Are you really this stupid or have been living under a rock. !?
Please do not spread false information as you will get others in trouble with false reporting. !!!

Here is the tax documentation guidelines from coinbase and the IRS.

https://www.coinbase.com/bitcoin-taxes#doyouowe

What's taxable
I.e. “converting” one crypto into another. Using bitcoin to buy ethereum is considered a disposition of the bitcoin, for example

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency. See Publication 544, Sales and Other
Dispositions of Assets, for information about the tax treatment of sales and exchanges,
such as whether a loss is deductible. "

I bolded the relevant part of your post. It says very clearly "property" for "virtual currency", not "virtual currency" for "virtual currency". Look at question 6 itself: I am quoting your quotation:

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?

The question specifically asks about virtual currency in exchange for other property!!

Why doesn't coinbase have any citations? As I said before, tax professionals who do not understand crypto think that crypto is like a stock. In addition, any tax professional wants to be sure that they give the advice that will result in the highest taxation, because they do not want to have any liability to their customers in case the lack of IRS guidance means higher taxes are due. If you were at Coinbase, would you do it any differently? Coinbase happened to be the one that got in trouble with the IRS because no one there was paying their taxes! I'm assuming that Coinbase was not issuing any tax forms to people for years, and now is trying to catch up.

Why do you keep lying to yourself and make excuses. Best to stay compliant with the law and pay your taxes or your asking for an irs audit and yes they are like the mafia they will fine you till your bankrupt. No joke.
Under IRS guidelines crypto is treated as property.
All the cryto tax software will calculate taxable events for alt coin to bitcoin trades and even alt coin to alt coin trades.
Yes crypto is taxed exactly like stocks weather you like it or not.
Coinbase issuing tax forums is very hard to do accurately since people can easily send their funds to other exchanges and send it back to coinbase and therefore is not a reliable way to calculate your taxes you owe.

If people listen to your advice they will be in big trouble down the line and you will not be their to save them and neither yourself. Do your best and pay your taxes and try to stay compliant with the irs laws and stay out of trouble. Best of luck to you.

ulhaq

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Quote from: lunobird on March 31, 2019, 04:27:11 PM

Quote from: timmmers on March 31, 2019, 03:45:51 PM

I find out that recently, that we really need to pay taxes, if we exchange altcoin to altcoin or Bitcoin. This doesn´t make any sense.
I do not understand how I should pay taxes for exchanging Bitcoin into altcoin? In altcoin? Or I need to sell 20% of my Bitcoins to pay taxes??? If I exchange EUR to USD I do not have to pay! Roll Eyes

False again!

You do pay taxes for currency exchange trading if their was any gains or losses. This is called Forex trading!!

Geeze you guys are total newbs.

Yes you will need to sell something to fiat to cover your taxes b/c irs wants fiat. So yes that means you will probably need to sell your bitcoins if your broke in fiat and you will get taxed on that sell also. So if your an early adopter and bought btc at pretty cheap value you will pay a lot of taxes.

If you bought btc at a high value you actually may not have to pay for anything since you realized a loss and that can offset any income gains. Just do your accounting correctly as best as you can.

Actually there is a limit for small transactions, so if someone buys a coffee with euros that are transferred to USD that falls below the limit, it is not taxable. But for crypto exchanges for property, including a coffee, it IS taxable.

ulhaq

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Quote from: lunobird on March 31, 2019, 03:30:13 PM

Quote from: ulhaq on March 31, 2019, 01:37:05 PM

Quote from: lunobird on March 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/how-to-handle-your-bitcoin-and-crypto-losses-for-tax-purposes

By united states IRS tax laws, An alt coin to bitcoin trade is a taxable realized event. Regardless if you put the money in the bank or not.

According to what? There is no official IRS guidance that states that an altcoin to bitcoin trade is a realized event. Because random people posted their opinions on sites indexed by google does not mean it is so. And if you look at the official IRS guidance, it only mentions selling crypto for USD, and exchanging crypto for real assets (like a coffee), which ARE both taxable.

When stocks are sold, they are sold for USD, and then the proceeds are used to buy another stock. It is not comparable to a crypto-crypto trade. And stocks have real assets like land, buildings, equipment, intellectual property, employees, and so on, none of which exists in an altcoin. Tax professionals have no understanding of crypto. Many will admit that they cannot provide guidance. Others with no experience/understanding of crypto think an altcoin is like a share of a stock. So they can give advice which is wrong.

Like-kind has nothing to do with anything. It's for people exchanging land or property, or similar things. I cannot claim like-kind for stocks. If I was discussing stocks and brought up like-kind, it would mean nothing, just like like-kind for crypto means nothing.

Are you really this stupid or have been living under a rock. !?
Please do not spread false information as you will get others in trouble with false reporting. !!!

Here is the tax documentation guidelines from coinbase and the IRS.

https://www.coinbase.com/bitcoin-taxes#doyouowe

What's taxable
I.e. “converting” one crypto into another. Using bitcoin to buy ethereum is considered a disposition of the bitcoin, for example

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency. See Publication 544, Sales and Other
Dispositions of Assets, for information about the tax treatment of sales and exchanges,
such as whether a loss is deductible. "

I bolded the relevant part of your post. It says very clearly "property" for "virtual currency", not "virtual currency" for "virtual currency". Look at question 6 itself: I am quoting your quotation:

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?

The question specifically asks about virtual currency in exchange for other property!!

Why doesn't coinbase have any citations? As I said before, tax professionals who do not understand crypto think that crypto is like a stock. In addition, any tax professional wants to be sure that they give the advice that will result in the highest taxation, because they do not want to have any liability to their customers in case the lack of IRS guidance means higher taxes are due. If you were at Coinbase, would you do it any differently? Coinbase happened to be the one that got in trouble with the IRS because no one there was paying their taxes! I'm assuming that Coinbase was not issuing any tax forms to people for years, and now is trying to catch up.

lunobird

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Quote from: timmmers on March 31, 2019, 03:45:51 PM

I find out that recently, that we really need to pay taxes, if we exchange altcoin to altcoin or Bitcoin. This doesn´t make any sense.
I do not understand how I should pay taxes for exchanging Bitcoin into altcoin? In altcoin? Or I need to sell 20% of my Bitcoins to pay taxes??? If I exchange EUR to USD I do not have to pay! Roll Eyes

False again!

You do pay taxes for currency exchange trading if their was any gains or losses. This is called Forex trading!!

Geeze you guys are total newbs.

Yes you will need to sell something to fiat to cover your taxes b/c irs wants fiat. So yes that means you will probably need to sell your bitcoins if your broke in fiat and you will get taxed on that sell also. So if your an early adopter and bought btc at pretty cheap value you will pay a lot of taxes.

If you bought btc at a high value you actually may not have to pay for anything since you realized a loss and that can offset any income gains. Just do your accounting correctly as best as you can.

lunobird

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Activity: 846

Merit: 115

Quote from: Lintel on March 31, 2019, 03:55:54 PM

Quote from: renes on August 08, 2017, 11:16:38 AM

If you turn any of your coins into usd or your local currency, depending on your country's laws you have to pay taxes but if you exchange cryptocurrencies you don't need to pay taxes.

True, If you exchange any of your coins into usd or into money you should pay taxes but if its bitcoin to altcoins or any coins I don't think you will pay taxes.

FALSE!

Here's proof and why are so many people on here ignoring the laws. ??

Here is the tax documentation guidelines from coinbase and the IRS.

https://www.coinbase.com/bitcoin-taxes#doyouowe

What's taxable
I.e. “converting” one crypto into another. Using bitcoin to buy ethereum is considered a disposition of the bitcoin, for example

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency. See Publication 544, Sales and Other
Dispositions of Assets, for information about the tax treatment of sales and exchanges,
such as whether a loss is deductible. "

Lintel

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Quote from: renes on August 08, 2017, 11:16:38 AM

If you turn any of your coins into usd or your local currency, depending on your country's laws you have to pay taxes but if you exchange cryptocurrencies you don't need to pay taxes.

True, If you exchange any of your coins into usd or into money you should pay taxes but if its bitcoin to altcoins or any coins I don't think you will pay taxes.

timmmers

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I find out that recently, that we really need to pay taxes, if we exchange altcoin to altcoin or Bitcoin. This doesn´t make any sense.
I do not understand how I should pay taxes for exchanging Bitcoin into altcoin? In altcoin? Or I need to sell 20% of my Bitcoins to pay taxes??? If I exchange EUR to USD I do not have to pay! Roll Eyes

Averim

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Quote from: chaosfourever on August 08, 2017, 10:54:38 AM

Do I need to pay taxes if I sell an alt coin for bitcoin then rebuy a different alt coin. I never took out actual USD so I am unsure how that would work. Or am I only taxes on actual USD made when I cash out?

There are the exchange taxes so if you converted any altcoin in bitcoin i believe you paid the tax. If we talk about governmental tax, if it is not converted in fiat coins then you don;t have to.

lunobird

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Quote from: ulhaq on March 31, 2019, 01:37:05 PM

Quote from: lunobird on March 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/how-to-handle-your-bitcoin-and-crypto-losses-for-tax-purposes

By united states IRS tax laws, An alt coin to bitcoin trade is a taxable realized event. Regardless if you put the money in the bank or not.

According to what? There is no official IRS guidance that states that an altcoin to bitcoin trade is a realized event. Because random people posted their opinions on sites indexed by google does not mean it is so. And if you look at the official IRS guidance, it only mentions selling crypto for USD, and exchanging crypto for real assets (like a coffee), which ARE both taxable.

When stocks are sold, they are sold for USD, and then the proceeds are used to buy another stock. It is not comparable to a crypto-crypto trade. And stocks have real assets like land, buildings, equipment, intellectual property, employees, and so on, none of which exists in an altcoin. Tax professionals have no understanding of crypto. Many will admit that they cannot provide guidance. Others with no experience/understanding of crypto think an altcoin is like a share of a stock. So they can give advice which is wrong.

Like-kind has nothing to do with anything. It's for people exchanging land or property, or similar things. I cannot claim like-kind for stocks. If I was discussing stocks and brought up like-kind, it would mean nothing, just like like-kind for crypto means nothing.

Are you really this stupid or have been living under a rock. !?
Please do not spread false information as you will get others in trouble with false reporting. !!!

Here is the tax documentation guidelines from coinbase and the IRS.

https://www.coinbase.com/bitcoin-taxes#doyouowe

What's taxable
I.e. “converting” one crypto into another. Using bitcoin to buy ethereum is considered a disposition of the bitcoin, for example

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

"Q-6: Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for
other property?
A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency
exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable
gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less
than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency. See Publication 544, Sales and Other
Dispositions of Assets, for information about the tax treatment of sales and exchanges,
such as whether a loss is deductible. "

elitemobb

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How do I think that while this area is not fully legalized, then taxes are out of the question as to what to pay for? In fact, cryptocurrency is not recognized as a valuable asset, so it is invaluable by the law.

ulhaq

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Quote from: lunobird on March 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM

Most countries will follow united states tax laws so please do your research on your specific country.

This is incorrect, tax laws vary widely from country to country and most countries do not follow united states tax laws. In fact, the United States is one of 2 countries in the world that taxes based on citizenship (instead of residency or other statuses).

ulhaq

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Quote from: lunobird on March 30, 2019, 07:41:30 PM

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/how-to-handle-your-bitcoin-and-crypto-losses-for-tax-purposes

By united states IRS tax laws, An alt coin to bitcoin trade is a taxable realized event. Regardless if you put the money in the bank or not.

According to what? There is no official IRS guidance that states that an altcoin to bitcoin trade is a realized event. Because random people posted their opinions on sites indexed by google does not mean it is so. And if you look at the official IRS guidance, it only mentions selling crypto for USD, and exchanging crypto for real assets (like a coffee), which ARE both taxable.

When stocks are sold, they are sold for USD, and then the proceeds are used to buy another stock. It is not comparable to a crypto-crypto trade. And stocks have real assets like land, buildings, equipment, intellectual property, employees, and so on, none of which exists in an altcoin. Tax professionals have no understanding of crypto. Many will admit that they cannot provide guidance. Others with no experience/understanding of crypto think an altcoin is like a share of a stock. So they can give advice which is wrong.

Like-kind has nothing to do with anything. It's for people exchanging land or property, or similar things. I cannot claim like-kind for stocks. If I was discussing stocks and brought up like-kind, it would mean nothing, just like like-kind for crypto means nothing.

lunobird

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wow there are so many idiots on here and most of you got it so much wrong. Please do your research. A simple google search instead of asking for advice from the ignorant, anarchist and tax evaders of bitcointalk.

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/how-to-handle-your-bitcoin-and-crypto-losses-for-tax-purposes

By united states IRS tax laws, An alt coin to bitcoin trade is a taxable realized event. Regardless if you put the money in the bank or not.

Like kind rules do not apply anymore. IRS in the united states made it clear.

Pay your taxes you owe or face severe tax penalties. Some people had to pay for over 50k in penalties for avoiding paying their taxes, things will get messy and you will have to hire a tax lawyer.

Yes they can easily track you. btc and eth and many other crypto currencies have transparent blockchains and your information is recorded as permanent record. A central exchange like coinbase, binance, etc would have to hand over your records if the IRS suspects you of avoiding paying taxes and wants to really crack down.

Most countries will follow united states tax laws so please do your research on your specific country.

Collinberg

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It depends on your country, in my country digital assets are not really recognised as something that even exists so taxes are not charged for them no matter the amount of profit you make, they wouldn't even know how to track it to begin with.

Gab20

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I think a lot of people are yet to realise that the exchange they trade on, most especially centralized exchange, pays tax. So for such exchange to be able to meet up with their charges by the government, they would have to put some of the charges on their customers, which is taken from both trading and withdrawal fees. I am not surprised to see some exchanges charge exorbitant fees.

Topic: Do I pay taxes when I sell an alt coin for bitcoin? (Read 19314 times)