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Topic: Do I really need a Bitcoin wallet? (Read 3777 times)

Jan
legendary
Activity: 1043
Merit: 1002
August 06, 2013, 03:34:21 AM
#27
1) Generate a key-pair
2) Put the private key and bitcoin address on paper (keep paper, delete the rest)
3) Mine to the address

Finally monitor your balance: http://blockchain.info/address/

Then you don't need a wallet until you want to spend.

There are several ways to do 1 & 2 in a secure way, here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milxhe-RoCI

Check out this demo on how to spend from your paper cold storage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDSzOiFgIk

For optimal security you should use a dedicated device for this purpose. I got a second hand old android 2.2 device, nuked it to factory defaults, installed cyanogenmod with no SIM card, and only installed the Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet on it.

Disclaimer: I am a Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet developer.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
July 23, 2013, 01:10:35 PM
#26
Unless I am mistaken this is only a paper backup BUT not a secure paper wallet.

The first phone could contain malware. The printer could be wifi connected and / or store the private key in its buffer.
The second phone could contain malware.

Am I wrong?
jr. member
Activity: 37
Merit: 1
July 21, 2013, 02:50:23 AM
#25
Appreciate any advice on using a bitcoin wallet vs just keeping coins at an exchange place. Thanks!

Download and try out the EZ Wallet.

https://github.com/osyed/ew

hero member
Activity: 907
Merit: 1003
July 21, 2013, 12:14:52 AM
#24
here ill tell you what i did:

  • go to bitaddress.org and save page as
  • boot linux from a disk (do not connect to the internet)
  • run bitaddress.org.htm and generate a paper wallet
  • hook your computer up to a printer with a usb cable
  • print out several copies of the paper wallet
  • clear printer cache
  • laminate the paper wallets and throw um in the safe or hide um really well or both
  • then just send all the coins that you want to keep safe to that address and keep your spending coins on gox or multibit

with this technique there is basically no risk of any significant portion of my coins ever being stolen by a hacker or lost due to counter party risk
I did exactly this too. And I am very happy I did so. Now I just send my bitcoins to it and don't have to worry at all. Totally secure and in my control. Hack proof
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
July 20, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
#23
1) Generate a key-pair
2) Put the private key and bitcoin address on paper (keep paper, delete the rest)
3) Mine to the address

Finally monitor your balance: http://blockchain.info/address/

Then you don't need a wallet until you want to spend.

There are several ways to do 1 & 2 in a secure way, here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milxhe-RoCI

Great video! Thank you
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
July 20, 2013, 06:04:33 PM
#22
Geez, we've got to make this simpler. No way Joe Average is going to do this.

oh yea entrepreneurs are working on it. its very analogous to the internet in the early 90s.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
July 20, 2013, 05:57:48 PM
#21
Hardware wallets are coming soon, that should help.  But, the average Joe gets his identity /cc info / pension / savings / etc stolen all the time and is left with a permanent loss, so it's not totally different.

That's true, but while it's a headache a lot of banking related theft has a measure of recourse. With Bitcoin you're on your own.

It would be great if we could fix both problems, though.
cp1
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Stop using branwallets
July 20, 2013, 05:47:37 PM
#20
Hardware wallets are coming soon, that should help.  But, the average Joe gets his identity /cc info / pension / savings / etc stolen all the time and is left with a permanent loss, so it's not totally different.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
July 20, 2013, 05:40:19 PM
#19
Geez, we've got to make this simpler. No way Joe Average is going to do this.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
July 20, 2013, 05:24:15 PM
#18
here ill tell you what i did:

  • go to bitaddress.org and save page as
  • boot linux from a disk (do not connect to the internet)
  • run bitaddress.org.htm and generate a paper wallet
  • hook your computer up to a printer with a usb cable
  • print out several copies of the paper wallet
  • clear printer cache
  • laminate the paper wallets and throw um in the safe or hide um really well or both
  • then just send all the coins that you want to keep safe to that address and keep your spending coins on gox or multibit

with this technique there is basically no risk of any significant portion of my coins ever being stolen by a hacker or lost due to counter party risk
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1066
July 20, 2013, 05:08:38 PM
#17
Thanks for all the tips and links. Will be going over all of them this weekend.

Kind of freaks me out the nothingness of all of this where if something goes wrong, you can lose it all forever.

Yesterday I downloaded Multibit. It works so much better than the wallet I downloaded about 10 months ago. My old wallet took HOURS to synchronize. Multibit took a few seconds.

Dumb newbie question: If I export the privacy key from Multibit, can I use that key with any another wallet that is not the Multibit wallet? I downloaded Multibit on two laptops. Then exported the key from one laptop and used it to access my money on the other one. It worked so that gave me a bit of a sense of security that if my hard drive crashed on one computer I could still get my money using the other one. But still confused. Is the key generated by wallet programs all you need to get your money from any wallet app as long as you have the key written down? If that is the case I feel better but still takes some faith to put any significant amount of cash out there.




You can export your private keys from MultiBit using the 'Tools | Export Private Keys'. Check out the help on it:
https://multibit.org/en/help/v0.5/help_exportingPrivateKeys.html

If your peruse the Help Contents there are a few posts (in the 'More technical details' section near the bottom) about private keys.

I have both my blockchain.info wallet and Android Bitcoin Wallet 'cloned' into MultiBit wallets.

I have also recently added a section on Wallet Backups in the help. As you mention, they would certainly help in case of a hard drive crash or laptop theft etc. The help is here:
https://multibit.org/en/help/v0.5/help_walletBackups.html
cp1
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Stop using branwallets
July 19, 2013, 09:21:31 PM
#16
You can always export the private key to another wallet.  But sometimes you get a compressed private key which isn't compatible with all wallets.   It doesn't really matter though -- when you reinstall just reinstall the same wallet you were using.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
July 19, 2013, 08:39:46 PM
#15
Thanks for all the tips and links. Will be going over all of them this weekend.

Kind of freaks me out the nothingness of all of this where if something goes wrong, you can lose it all forever.

Yesterday I downloaded Multibit. It works so much better than the wallet I downloaded about 10 months ago. My old wallet took HOURS to synchronize. Multibit took a few seconds.

Dumb newbie question: If I export the privacy key from Multibit, can I use that key with any another wallet that is not the Multibit wallet? I downloaded Multibit on two laptops. Then exported the key from one laptop and used it to access my money on the other one. It worked so that gave me a bit of a sense of security that if my hard drive crashed on one computer I could still get my money using the other one. But still confused. Is the key generated by wallet programs all you need to get your money from any wallet app as long as you have the key written down? If that is the case I feel better but still takes some faith to put any significant amount of cash out there.

For multibit specific questions you likely will get better responses in multibit thread in alternative wallets section of the forum.  I would answer but I have never used it so I don't have a clue.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
July 19, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
#14
Thanks for all the tips and links. Will be going over all of them this weekend.

Kind of freaks me out the nothingness of all of this where if something goes wrong, you can lose it all forever.

Yesterday I downloaded Multibit. It works so much better than the wallet I downloaded about 10 months ago. My old wallet took HOURS to synchronize. Multibit took a few seconds.

Dumb newbie question: If I export the privacy key from Multibit, can I use that key with any another wallet that is not the Multibit wallet? I downloaded Multibit on two laptops. Then exported the key from one laptop and used it to access my money on the other one. It worked so that gave me a bit of a sense of security that if my hard drive crashed on one computer I could still get my money using the other one. But still confused. Is the key generated by wallet programs all you need to get your money from any wallet app as long as you have the key written down? If that is the case I feel better but still takes some faith to put any significant amount of cash out there.

Totally understand the concern about putting your faith in an ethereal nothingness used as money. The dirty secret of modern society though, is that nearly all money (and paper assets!) is the same thing... bits in a computer somewhere. Backed up, maybe, but you can do backups too.

Which brings me to the important point of your post: that the private key is the means of accessing your money.

Some wallets are very simple, and don't allow you to import keys (BitcoinSpinner, a slick Android wallet, comes to mind.) But many will, and even if you couldn't get to one, as long as you have the private key, if you *had* to, you could write out a transaction to move your money by hand and push it to the bitcoin network. It's real, true digital cash.

The downside of course, being that just like cash, you have to secure it yourself. You'll want to make sure you backup your main wallet ASAP!

But... importing your key from one wallet to another like that isn't really recommended. If you spend from one wallet, then later look at the other, you might wonder why THAT wallet's balance looks wrong. It was a good way to prove the concept though. (It's probably a good idea now to either wipe that second wallet, or remove the key you imported from it, to avoid confusion.)

EDIT: Also, in case it wasn't clear, most wallets contain more than one private key, they may have hundreds. Usually when you spend bitcoins, you get change that automatically goes to one of your other address-key pairs. It's not complicated, but does take some learning and some caution if you plan to mess with private keys inside of your wallets.
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
July 19, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
#13
Thanks for all the tips and links. Will be going over all of them this weekend.

Kind of freaks me out the nothingness of all of this where if something goes wrong, you can lose it all forever.

Yesterday I downloaded Multibit. It works so much better than the wallet I downloaded about 10 months ago. My old wallet took HOURS to synchronize. Multibit took a few seconds.

Dumb newbie question: If I export the privacy key from Multibit, can I use that key with any another wallet that is not the Multibit wallet? I downloaded Multibit on two laptops. Then exported the key from one laptop and used it to access my money on the other one. It worked so that gave me a bit of a sense of security that if my hard drive crashed on one computer I could still get my money using the other one. But still confused. Is the key generated by wallet programs all you need to get your money from any wallet app as long as you have the key written down? If that is the case I feel better but still takes some faith to put any significant amount of cash out there.


cp1
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Stop using branwallets
July 19, 2013, 05:35:02 PM
#12
If you don't want to spend the coins then you can keep a secret key as described above.  But if you want to spend them and want a very secure way to store them then check out my guide:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/newbies-want-cold-offline-storage-for-your-bitcoins-heres-how-armory-235584
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
July 19, 2013, 05:30:08 PM
#11
1) Generate a key-pair
2) Put the private key and bitcoin address on paper (keep paper, delete the rest)
3) Mine to the address

Finally monitor your balance: http://blockchain.info/address/

Then you don't need a wallet until you want to spend.

There are several ways to do 1 & 2 in a secure way, here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milxhe-RoCI

You know, I had a more complicated two-wallet routine all written out for the OP to use. But after re-reading, thinking a bit, and seeing this, I'm just going to say Jan is probably right in that this is all you need.

I'd only add a few points:

- Keep your private key and address in a safe, secure place
- Make at least one copy of the private key and address, and keep it in a separate safe place

Here's a thread that touches on how to make a paper wallet:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-to-create-paper-wallet-213342

There's also an Android app, Bitcoin Address Utility Tool, that can help if you have an old smartphone or tablet that you don't keep online constantly. Just jump on wifi, download it, then disconnect before running. If you choose to use it, it requires a passphrase, but I would strongly recommend not trying to make a passphrase you can remember. Instead make it a very long, random string of letters, numbers and symbols that you carefully write down later along with the private key and address.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
July 18, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
#10
This.  I would be VERY wary of MtGox right now.  See the service discussion of this forum for the amount of people with problems getting their money out.  ...  

Just to clarify these are people having delays with the banking side of MtGox transfers, which MtGox made an announcement about. As far as I know nobody has had problems transferring bitcoins.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
July 18, 2013, 03:11:54 PM
#9
Been mining a few months with my PC's GPU and up to 8 coins now. My Jalapeno arrived today so I should be getting coins much quicker. Now that I'm actually starting to get some decent cash, I don't want to lose it.

I'm wondering what is best way to manage the coins. Now the coins I mine I simply have the mining pool send to my account at Mt.Gox. Is that a bad idea? I figure there is a much higher chance of me screwing something up on my end with a bitcoin wallet than Mt.Gox screwing something up.

Appreciate any advice on using a bitcoin wallet vs just keeping coins at an exchange place. Thanks!

If your coins are at MtGox (or anywhere you don't have the private key) then you don't have ANY Bitcoins.   MtGox has your Bitcoins and MtGox has given you an IOU which you can see on your account page.  If MtGox disapears, gets sued into oblivion, gets hacked, has their servers seized by the Japanese govt, etc then THEIR coins are gone and the IOU is worthless.

Now for some people this risk is acceptable only you can decide.  If having an IOU from a company you know almost nothing about on the other side of the planet where if they don't pay you have almost no recourse to recover your funds "good enough"?  If yes then sure you don't need a wallet.



This.  I would be VERY wary of MtGox right now.  See the service discussion of this forum for the amount of people with problems getting their money out.  If you're going to store coins for the medium to long-term, I would put them on a paper wallet or via Armory's offline option.  You can put some smaller spending coin amounts in a hot wallet like Blockchain.info, Electrum or whatever you prefer. 
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
July 18, 2013, 02:55:31 PM
#8
You don't NEED a wallet, you can just store your coins in mine.
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