Topic: do miners zip blocks when trying to propagate them? (Read 1854 times)
That invertible bloom look-up table sounds promising, but would take some time to implement, especially need to have a consensus first
Really interesting ... ! There is some redundancy in a block , you easily see multiple txs referring to same txid as input ... saw https://gappleto97.github.io/visualizer/ today and looks like there are lots of cluster. Not sure how much that would help to reduce size
I mean.. we're really trying to have rational discussions about scaling and security yet some of you are ignorant of some of the most basic innerworkings of Bitcoin.
Then you wonder why no one cares or value your opinion...
Then you wonder why no one cares or value your opinion...
What is wrong with people asking questions and trying to learn?
They might form informed opinions of their own, which in turn would reduce effectiveness of trolling.
so there you have it we can easily scale bitcoin to 4,000TPS while making sure typical home internet can handle mining operations.
no side chains.
no 3rd party payment processors.
call the devs, tell them can bump block limit to 1GB
no side chains.
no 3rd party payment processors.
call the devs, tell them can bump block limit to 1GB
I once had to reverse engineer a piece of code written by chinese poeple, their code was unbelievable, pure spaghetti! goto's and all.
There are goto's in Bitcoin's code written by some Americans - so go figure - people all around the world can write spaghetti and use goto statements.
Also reverse engineering C or C++ won't produce anything readable at all (as it is compiled).
they gave me their source, we work together. ( maybe reverse engineer isn't the right thing to say, i needed to see how they handled certain things so my code could adhere to the same rules, which their code defined. )
well i had seen spaghetti code before, but this took it to a new level.
I once had to reverse engineer a piece of code written by chinese poeple, their code was unbelievable, pure spaghetti! goto's and all.
There are goto's in Bitcoin's code written by some Americans - so go figure - people all around the world can write spaghetti and use goto statements.
Also reverse engineering C or C++ won't produce anything readable at all (as it is compiled).
Okay - thanks for the info - so SPV mining is not the same as the Relay Network?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
Not at all.
Here:
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/38437/what-is-spv-mining-and-how-did-it-inadvertently-cause-the-fork-after-bip66-wa
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3c305f/if_you_are_using_any_wallet_other_than_bitcoin/csrsrf9
Is the internet data exiting and entering China being filtered via Firewalls at data centers, where the cables join with the mainland?
Slowed down rather than filtered at the lower levels (so even if you get past the firewall you are back in the 1990s).
Is this why the internet speed within the country is so low?
Within China itself the speed is very fast (as I mentioned my wife and I can both watch a different HD movie at the same time with no problem here).
Okay - thanks for the info - so SPV mining is not the same as the Relay Network?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
IDK, a faulty SPV written by the chinese miners?
I once had to reverse engineer a piece of code written by chinese poeple, their code was unbelievable, pure spaghetti! goto's and all.
Is the internet data exiting and entering China being filtered via Firewalls at data centers, where the cables join with the mainland? Is this why the internet speed within the
country is so low? Like working through a online proxy or VPN service? I saw a video once, where a Chinese guy were playing Starcraft and his response time was pretty fast.
His opponent was from the same country, but from a different location within China. I guess the Chinese have a point, when they complain about the West having the advantage
of unrestricted fast internet access, when they have to compete from their country, through these firewalls.
country is so low? Like working through a online proxy or VPN service? I saw a video once, where a Chinese guy were playing Starcraft and his response time was pretty fast.
His opponent was from the same country, but from a different location within China. I guess the Chinese have a point, when they complain about the West having the advantage
of unrestricted fast internet access, when they have to compete from their country, through these firewalls.
Okay - thanks for the info - so SPV mining is not the same as the Relay Network?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
So do we know exactly what software was being run by the pools that caused the fork?
@Peter R - the link points out that it is not centralised so what makes you say that it is (or do you mean just that the number of nodes is very limited)?
Anyone can presently join the Relay Network; however, because it is not implemented as a P2P protocol in the same way that Bitcoin is, sometimes it "breaks." If you read through the Relay Network thread, you can confirm for yourself that this is empirically true: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-and-why-pools-and-all-miners-should-use-the-relay-network-766190
What I had read in terms of the recent fork had mentioned SPV mining so if that *is* the relay network then yes the same thing.
@Peter R - the link points out that it is not centralised so what makes you say that?
it's sorta centralized. a few nodes all under 1 dudes control.... it could be decentralized, simply by making this the way peers communicate new blocks.
SPV mining and this relay network are different things.
this is just a more efficient way of communicating the contents of a new block.
SPV mining is a way of mining without handling block validation so you don't have to download any blocks at all.
What I had read in terms of the recent fork had mentioned SPV mining so if that *is* the relay network then yes the same thing (and yes reading that link does look to explain why the fork happened in terms of minimal validation being performed).
@Peter R - the link points out that it is not centralised so what makes you say that it is (or do you mean just that the number of nodes is very limited)?
One problem with the Relay Network is that it is a centralized service. I would like to see coding gain for block solutions implemented at the P2P level. For example, sometimes the Relay Network stops working; if the encoding is done at the P2P level, this wouldn't happen.
you said it yourself there already doing this, "SPV mining".
Okay - I get what you mean now and that has some merit (although I guess it is an extra hassle for them to set that up so there is the question of whether they would do so but perhaps enough fees earned per block might make that worthwhile).
I don't think that SPV mining (at least how it is being done currently) works that way though as my understanding was that there was no proper block validation being done at all (which is why the fork happened).
And yes how miners propagate blocks (well block headers actually) to their hashers is not really relevant to the main protocol at all (which is why things like SPV mining already occurs).
The internet within China itself is actually very fast as my wife and I can both watch two different HD movies (that are sourced from within China) at the same time from our fairly standard home connection (hint: the issue with communications outside of China is not really a technical one).
Did you forget about the nodes? 1 GB blocks ?
Seriously, this stuff is just beyond your understanding, just stop it.
He seems to understand it better than you, and is more humble with what he claims to know too. For example, you earlier claimed that the
"Bitcoin does not currently propagate blocks in their full size, only the tx hashes so your idea is not in touch with how Bitcoin network currently works."
which is clearly wrong; the Bitcoin P2P protocol supports the propagation of complete (non-encoded) blocks between nodes/miners.
Let me rephrase it then:
Bitcoin, as it is implemented right now by most if not all miners, does not currently propagate blocks in their full size, only the tx hashes so your idea is not in touch with how Bitcoin network currently works.
the way blocks are propagated wouldn't need a hardfork then?
GOOD.
ya but they don't need any bandwidth if their full node is running on a US server.
The point is that their mining operations are in China so having a server running in the US is of zero use.
You have to get the txs sent to China (it doesn't matter whether you are using a VPN or whatever as I pointed out).
the use would be that there node in US does all the validation work and there mining farm dose only hashing and sends the answer to the full node when they solve the problem so that the node in US can make a block.
you said it yourself there already doing this, "SPV mining".
also is chain planning on having the worlds shityest interent forever?
ya but they don't need any bandwidth if their full node is running on a US server.
The point is that their mining operations are in China so having a server running in the US is of zero use.
You have to get the txs sent to China (it doesn't matter whether you are using a VPN or whatever as I pointed out).
Again - to make the point clear - it is easy to get around the blocks to YouTube but you can't watch HD videos because the bandwidth to the "outside world" is just slowed down too much (on purpose).
The US is just too expensive in terms of electricity costs so the Chinese mining operations are not likely to want to set up there.
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