Do Owners of betting companies bet? - page 7.

Hypnosis00

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Quote from: wxa7115 on December 15, 2023, 11:46:17 PM

Quote from: redsun114 on December 11, 2023, 05:24:03 AM

Why wrong? Isn't it a good thing actually? Because, it prevents them to become addicted and lose everything they have, ( if not some, or most of their profits ). But, I think all casino owners do have an experience in playing gambling. It is an advantage and this is what they like or, this is where their passion is, resulting for them to came up with such business.

If in case their urge kicks in, it's best if they can only play within their own platform. This is the same as playing for fun because it was still their own money after all, is the one that they will be getting, in case they are winning. And if they lose, there is no harm, because the money will still go on their own wallet.

I can see your point, however when it comes to lotteries and other similar gambling games it is stated very clearly that anyone which is part of that business or their family cannot participate on it, and if they do they will not be paid the prize they could have received.

This is done as a way to avoid those employees to manipulate the results on their favor, and since the owner of a casino is in a position similar to that, it should be better for them to not do this, as a way to avoid the temptation of manipulating the results on their favor as well.

Well, the rules have been written already just people think that there is no manipulation of winnings. But who knows, in fact, the jackpot winner can't be revealed in front until he/she shown up and shows the winning ticket, and no one will identify the identity of the winner if he/she is relative to any members or workers of the casino. With the huge number of gamblers, I don't someone has been tasked to do that, it is just a waste of time. Of course, no one will be able to accept that they are relatives, even if you have the same family name.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on December 15, 2023, 11:46:17 PM

I can see your point, however when it comes to lotteries and other similar gambling games it is stated very clearly that anyone which is part of that business or their family cannot participate on it, and if they do they will not be paid the prize they could have received.

This is done as a way to avoid those employees manipulating the results in their favour, and since the owner of a casino is in a position similar to that, it should be better for them to not do this, as a way to avoid the temptation of manipulating the results on their favor as well.

How are you sure that the family of the casino do not participate in the lottery? Sometimes i think that even if they do not participate the lottery is always given to some near and dear ones, it is hardly a fair lottery. This becomes even more true when we consider the manual lottery, where there is no check and balance.

Also sometimes these lotteries scam us by collecting the minimal amount of money to participate in the lottery but when it comes to the time of results, they give it to some dummy numbers (people) and since we do not have visibility on how they calculated the winner's among the participants, we can only settle and tell ourself that we were unlucky on another lottery.

wxa7115

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Quote from: redsun114 on December 11, 2023, 05:24:03 AM

Why wrong? Isn't it a good thing actually? Because, it prevents them to become addicted and lose everything they have, ( if not some, or most of their profits ). But, I think all casino owners do have an experience in playing gambling. It is an advantage and this is what they like or, this is where their passion is, resulting for them to came up with such business.

If in case their urge kicks in, it's best if they can only play within their own platform. This is the same as playing for fun because it was still their own money after all, is the one that they will be getting, in case they are winning. And if they lose, there is no harm, because the money will still go on their own wallet.

I can see your point, however when it comes to lotteries and other similar gambling games it is stated very clearly that anyone which is part of that business or their family cannot participate on it, and if they do they will not be paid the prize they could have received.

This is done as a way to avoid those employees to manipulate the results on their favor, and since the owner of a casino is in a position similar to that, it should be better for them to not do this, as a way to avoid the temptation of manipulating the results on their favor as well.

Blitzboy

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Quote from: redsun114 on December 11, 2023, 05:24:03 AM

Quote from: 2Pizza410000BTC on December 10, 2023, 12:30:54 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

It is wrong for the owner of the casino platform that he cannot gamble. Casino platform owners play gambling and they can use their own platform for gambling. In this case, there is no binding rule that they cannot participate in gambling by owning the casino platform. Humans are made of flesh and blood and have everything. If so then a common man and a casino company owner can certainly gamble. This is a very simple matter, just a little thought with your own conscience will give you the answer.

Why wrong? Isn't it a good thing actually? Because, it prevents them to become addicted and lose everything they have, ( if not some, or most of their profits ). But, I think all casino owners do have an experience in playing gambling. It is an advantage and this is what they like or, this is where their passion is, resulting for them to came up with such business.

If in case their urge kicks in, it's best if they can only play within their own platform. This is the same as playing for fun because it was still their own money after all, is the one that they will be getting, in case they are winning. And if they lose, there is no harm, because the money will still go on their own wallet.

Your case brings up an interesting point, but it wobbles dangerously close to ethical business practices and responsible gambling. I think you're suggesting that casino owners play in their businesses as a safe way to relax and avoid becoming addicted. It seems like this could go badly, though. Imagine this: a casino owner who loves gambling decides to only play at their own business. At first, it seems harmless - they are probably just using their own money. Eventually, though, this behavior turns into a fake problem. Wins and losses are treated as internal transactions that have no effect on the real world. Doesnt this disconnect from reality make it easier to develop bad gaming habits?

This idea of "harmless" internal play also ignores what gambling is all about: the thrill of risk and return with real stakes. Shouldn't they be against the spirit of gaming by using their business as a personal playground? A thin line exists between personal indulgence and work ethics in this story. Its a reminder that carefully balancing personal wants with the duties of running a gambling establishment is important, even when following a hobby.

redsun114

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Quote from: 2Pizza410000BTC on December 10, 2023, 12:30:54 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

It is wrong for the owner of the casino platform that he cannot gamble. Casino platform owners play gambling and they can use their own platform for gambling. In this case, there is no binding rule that they cannot participate in gambling by owning the casino platform. Humans are made of flesh and blood and have everything. If so then a common man and a casino company owner can certainly gamble. This is a very simple matter, just a little thought with your own conscience will give you the answer.

Why wrong? Isn't it a good thing actually? Because, it prevents them to become addicted and lose everything they have, ( if not some, or most of their profits ). But, I think all casino owners do have an experience in playing gambling. It is an advantage and this is what they like or, this is where their passion is, resulting for them to came up with such business.

If in case their urge kicks in, it's best if they can only play within their own platform. This is the same as playing for fun because it was still their own money after all, is the one that they will be getting, in case they are winning. And if they lose, there is no harm, because the money will still go on their own wallet.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Hispo on December 10, 2023, 06:18:18 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on December 10, 2023, 12:59:21 PM

If the owner somehow "fixes" the game in his favor, it will be obvious fraud since it will be at the expense of other players. I don’t think that an adequate owner would do this since it could completely destroy his business. Plus, I don’t think that casino workers are so stupid that they would even try to do this at the owner’s request. This is illegal and if they do this they may be prosecuted.

I won't even know how a casino owner could fix a sport event in order for them to get all the money, by the way, because the results of those sports matches and events are pretty much wideky known and cannot be messed with. ~

There is no need to correct anything in the sporting event itself, it is enough to “work” with the odds. For example, with live betting, allow the owner to place bets a couple of seconds faster than the quotes for everyone else are updated. For example, in tennis, this will give you a huge advantage, since the quotes there change significantly after each serve you win. Thus, the one who may be a little faster than the rest will hedge against them and receive a guaranteed profit. I think you can come up with a lot of tricks and secret passages in this area.
But as I wrote above, this is an absolutely pointless idea, since even if you win a little, you risk that your entire business will be destroyed if other people find out about it. And they will find out 100% because to implement such tricks you will have to involve the technical specialists of your casino in this matter, and as the proverb says, “if more than two people know about something, then everyone knows about it.”

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Quote from: Hispo on December 10, 2023, 06:18:18 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on December 10, 2023, 12:59:21 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on December 10, 2023, 11:43:59 AM

I don't see anything ethically wrong with a casino owner, gambling on their own platform but what matters must at some point is wether or not he will be able to control or influence the result in his own favour most especially in the in house games where there is mechanism of house edge and if such be what becomes of the other players in his casino.

I think unless in sport betting that is the only game where there will be a probably fairness if you as a gambler is up against the owner, I am not saying it a sure thing for such abuse pf the platform to happen but let think of it in that direction also.

If the owner somehow "fixes" the game in his favor, it will be obvious fraud since it will be at the expense of other players. I don’t think that an adequate owner would do this since it could completely destroy his business. Plus, I don’t think that casino workers are so stupid that they would even try to do this at the owner’s request. This is illegal and if they do this they may be prosecuted.

I won't even know how a casino owner could fix a sport event in order for them to get all the money, by the way, because the results of those sports matches and events are pretty much wideky known and cannot be messed with. On the other hand, if we talk about gambling/casino games where the result of each session is not of Public knowledge but only known by the casino and each individual user, then there is a possibility the owner of a shady casino would feel tempted to lean the odds and the chances in favor of the house and break the fairness of the game.
That is one of the reason I believe anyone looking for a seamless experience should go with big reputable casinos which offer provably fairness in their games, once one have managed to gain so experience, it would be okey to experiment in smaller and less known platforms with a limited deposit, just in case.

Nah they can't do that and in order to make that happen they need to spend a lot of money before a certain team on professional league would agree to that. But most likely its not really happening that's why maybe those owners will not waste their time to gamble on regular days since they just want to make their money to be used on improvements of their casino or rather to use it on promotion so that they can gather a lot of profit in return.

But in exciting big events which the sports they like is in play offs run or in finals maybe its different story since gambler is still a gambler and maybe they will spend some amount of their wealth to test out their luck and extend more their excitement watching their favorite team to play.

STT

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Investment in a company is a gamble, people seem to think risks and gambles on unknown outcomes only exists within defined games and retailed bets. Risk is normal and gambles occur every day in life is true as can be. I think any owner of a major firm is well acquainted with gambling and risk reward but whether they are interested in their own companies products is not a given, most people like to sports bet occasionally even if its not their every day thing so surely everyone bets if they can. I'd only consider regulation and rules about gambling could exist possibly, I know some professions they literally exclude you from betting usually this is related to finance regulations.

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Quote from: KTChampions on December 10, 2023, 12:59:21 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on December 10, 2023, 11:43:59 AM

I don't see anything ethically wrong with a casino owner, gambling on their own platform but what matters must at some point is wether or not he will be able to control or influence the result in his own favour most especially in the in house games where there is mechanism of house edge and if such be what becomes of the other players in his casino.

I think unless in sport betting that is the only game where there will be a probably fairness if you as a gambler is up against the owner, I am not saying it a sure thing for such abuse pf the platform to happen but let think of it in that direction also.

If the owner somehow "fixes" the game in his favor, it will be obvious fraud since it will be at the expense of other players. I don’t think that an adequate owner would do this since it could completely destroy his business. Plus, I don’t think that casino workers are so stupid that they would even try to do this at the owner’s request. This is illegal and if they do this they may be prosecuted.

Most of these gambling platforms are online and that's why their results can never be manipulated by anyone and since no one decides the results of these casinos, I think everyone including owners of the casinos company are eligible to freely gamble as much as the want to without any form of restriction. So betting by sports betting owners is preferential and I don't think there's a law that forbids them from betting.
However, if the result of bets placed on a particular betting platform can be influenced by the owner, the it's absolutely fraudulent for the for the owner of the betting company to place bets in the same company as he's very likely to influence winning in his own personal bets but in the absence of been able to influence the results of bets, then I don't find anything bad for betting company owners to place bets on their respective betting companies.

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Quote from: KTChampions on December 10, 2023, 12:59:21 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on December 10, 2023, 11:43:59 AM

I don't see anything ethically wrong with a casino owner, gambling on their own platform but what matters must at some point is wether or not he will be able to control or influence the result in his own favour most especially in the in house games where there is mechanism of house edge and if such be what becomes of the other players in his casino.

I think unless in sport betting that is the only game where there will be a probably fairness if you as a gambler is up against the owner, I am not saying it a sure thing for such abuse pf the platform to happen but let think of it in that direction also.

If the owner somehow "fixes" the game in his favor, it will be obvious fraud since it will be at the expense of other players. I don’t think that an adequate owner would do this since it could completely destroy his business. Plus, I don’t think that casino workers are so stupid that they would even try to do this at the owner’s request. This is illegal and if they do this they may be prosecuted.

I won't even know how a casino owner could fix a sport event in order for them to get all the money, by the way, because the results of those sports matches and events are pretty much wideky known and cannot be messed with. On the other hand, if we talk about gambling/casino games where the result of each session is not of Public knowledge but only known by the casino and each individual user, then there is a possibility the owner of a shady casino would feel tempted to lean the odds and the chances in favor of the house and break the fairness of the game.
That is one of the reason I believe anyone looking for a seamless experience should go with big reputable casinos which offer provably fairness in their games, once one have managed to gain so experience, it would be okey to experiment in smaller and less known platforms with a limited deposit, just in case.

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Quote from: Ever-young on December 10, 2023, 02:04:37 PM

Quote from: Gozie51 on December 10, 2023, 12:27:02 AM

Quote from: Ever-young on November 28, 2023, 01:40:08 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

There is nothing wrong with casino owners to bet in their own casino, I don't suppose there are rules that restrict them from doing so. But it is not advisable for a casino owner to use his own casino. In as much as you have the Liberty to do so I believe it is better to use another casino. Except maybe the person in question has a good percent of self-control and definitely not an addict then he can bet on his casino if you choose to. Maybe to try and multiply his money or maybe he just want to boost the morale of other players.

If a casino owner use his casino to bet or whether he bet outside his casino is the same thing. What matters is self control because the fear of not betting with his casino is not to over stake but he can also over stake in another casino so what matters is self control and not where an owner plays.

We should also remember that a casino owner is also human with feelings and emotions and so he is liable to make mistakes that gamblers do not necessarily in his casino. So he is at liberty of choice if he so chooses to bet, he is not barred from gambling in his casino excepted he may be tempted not to be professional and responsible to his betting.

According to business ethics, it's unethical for a business owner to tamper with his own business. Whether he has self control or not, the best option is to stay off completely from gambling in his casino.

Most cases I've seen where casino owners gamble in their own casinos, didn't turn out well at all. That's because it's harder to have self control when you're in a casino where you're the boss, ain't no one to tell you when to stop.

That factor is valid especially if you don't know how to control yourself, no one can limit you as you are the boss of your company, instead of making money chances that you may lose a lot of that control will not take place. Better to keep yourself away and not to involve yourself, business as it is and not a part of your leisure in life, it will be best to succeed as its really important to make sure that you have that dominance with the business that you establish .

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Quote from: Gozie51 on December 10, 2023, 12:27:02 AM

Quote from: Ever-young on November 28, 2023, 01:40:08 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

There is nothing wrong with casino owners to bet in their own casino, I don't suppose there are rules that restrict them from doing so. But it is not advisable for a casino owner to use his own casino. In as much as you have the Liberty to do so I believe it is better to use another casino. Except maybe the person in question has a good percent of self-control and definitely not an addict then he can bet on his casino if you choose to. Maybe to try and multiply his money or maybe he just want to boost the morale of other players.

If a casino owner use his casino to bet or whether he bet outside his casino is the same thing. What matters is self control because the fear of not betting with his casino is not to over stake but he can also over stake in another casino so what matters is self control and not where an owner plays.

We should also remember that a casino owner is also human with feelings and emotions and so he is liable to make mistakes that gamblers do not necessarily in his casino. So he is at liberty of choice if he so chooses to bet, he is not barred from gambling in his casino excepted he may be tempted not to be professional and responsible to his betting.

According to business ethics, it's unethical for a business owner to tamper with his own business. Whether he has self control or not, the best option is to stay off completely from gambling in his casino.

Most cases I've seen where casino owners gamble in their own casinos, didn't turn out well at all. That's because it's harder to have self control when you're in a casino where you're the boss, ain't no one to tell you when to stop.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Wiwo on December 10, 2023, 11:43:59 AM

I don't see anything ethically wrong with a casino owner, gambling on their own platform but what matters must at some point is wether or not he will be able to control or influence the result in his own favour most especially in the in house games where there is mechanism of house edge and if such be what becomes of the other players in his casino.

I think unless in sport betting that is the only game where there will be a probably fairness if you as a gambler is up against the owner, I am not saying it a sure thing for such abuse pf the platform to happen but let think of it in that direction also.

If the owner somehow "fixes" the game in his favor, it will be obvious fraud since it will be at the expense of other players. I don’t think that an adequate owner would do this since it could completely destroy his business. Plus, I don’t think that casino workers are so stupid that they would even try to do this at the owner’s request. This is illegal and if they do this they may be prosecuted.

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Quote from: Gozie51 on December 10, 2023, 12:27:02 AM

Quote from: Ever-young on November 28, 2023, 01:40:08 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

~snip~

If a casino owner use his casino to bet or whether he bet outside his casino is the same thing. What matters is self control because the fear of not betting with his casino is not to over stake but he can also over stake in another casino so what matters is self control and not where an owner plays.

We should also remember that a casino owner is also human with feelings and emotions and so he is liable to make mistakes that gamblers do not necessarily in his casino. So he is at liberty of choice if he so chooses to bet, he is not barred from gambling in his casino excepted he may be tempted not to be professional and responsible to his betting.

But in my opinion it is very unethical for casino owner to play in his own casino because it will be question of what his purpose is in playing in his casino because he can play in other casinos while trying to see how the development and services of other casinos which are also his business competitors.
If we are talking about making profit then he doesn't need to play in the casino he owns because just by running the casino he can make quite lot of profit.
Meanwhile, for reasons of having fun, it is also impossible because when gambling in place that he built, it is the same as playing with system that he himself, has created Is this worth it?
Moreover, winning or losing will not affect anything, what is left is less good view from all his customers if such an incident were discovered.

But why would something like that be done because he has team, he has employees who manage each game and of course everything is managed by the casino employees, not the owner.

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Quote from: 2Pizza410000BTC on December 10, 2023, 12:30:54 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

It is wrong for the owner of the casino platform that he cannot gamble. Casino platform owners play gambling and they can use their own platform for gambling. In this case, there is no binding rule that they cannot participate in gambling by owning the casino platform. Humans are made of flesh and blood and have everything. If so then a common man and a casino company owner can certainly gamble. This is a very simple matter, just a little thought with your own conscience will give you the answer.

I don't see anything ethically wrong with a casino owner, gambling on their own platform but what matters must at some point is wether or not he will be able to control or influence the result in his own favour most especially in the in house games where there is mechanism of house edge and if such be what becomes of the other players in his casino.

I think unless in sport betting that is the only game where there will be a probably fairness if you as a gambler is up against the owner, I am not saying it a sure thing for such abuse pf the platform to happen but let think of it in that direction also.

letteredhub

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Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

Yes, owners of betting companies do bet and they do so in their own bet company. You should know that it doesn't make a sense I own a business that provides a service and when am in need of using that services I had to go patronize outsiders, it doesn't speak well of me as an owner, what if I lose my bet playing outside? It then means am losing it a loss to me and to the benefit of my competitor in the business. But using mine to bet, win or loss it's still a win-win for me. Additionally, if customers get to have the knowledge of the fact that I left my own betting company to be using outsider's own, they can assume that maybe it because mine is with no probably fair games and that why am ain't using it, and that can be negative impact for my business.

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Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

It is wrong for the owner of the casino platform that he cannot gamble. Casino platform owners play gambling and they can use their own platform for gambling. In this case, there is no binding rule that they cannot participate in gambling by owning the casino platform. Humans are made of flesh and blood and have everything. If so then a common man and a casino company owner can certainly gamble. This is a very simple matter, just a little thought with your own conscience will give you the answer.

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Quote from: Ever-young on November 28, 2023, 01:40:08 AM

Quote from: alastantiger on November 11, 2023, 10:37:18 AM

Do owners of betting companies place bet on their own platform or is there a policy specific policy that restricts them from betting. Do you think that there would be conflict of interest or that it will be unethical if owners bet on their own platforms. These are the questions that I am seeking an answer to.

There is nothing wrong with casino owners to bet in their own casino, I don't suppose there are rules that restrict them from doing so. But it is not advisable for a casino owner to use his own casino. In as much as you have the Liberty to do so I believe it is better to use another casino. Except maybe the person in question has a good percent of self-control and definitely not an addict then he can bet on his casino if you choose to. Maybe to try and multiply his money or maybe he just want to boost the morale of other players.

If a casino owner use his casino to bet or whether he bet outside his casino is the same thing. What matters is self control because the fear of not betting with his casino is not to over stake but he can also over stake in another casino so what matters is self control and not where an owner plays.

We should also remember that a casino owner is also human with feelings and emotions and so he is liable to make mistakes that gamblers do not necessarily in his casino. So he is at liberty of choice if he so chooses to bet, he is not barred from gambling in his casino excepted he may be tempted not to be professional and responsible to his betting.

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Quote from: |MINER| on December 10, 2023, 12:01:37 AM

Quote from: Renampun on November 29, 2023, 03:26:48 PM

I don't know for sure whether gambling owners do gambling too, but I'm sure they definitely do that too, it's impossible for you to set up a business that you don't know how to play. I still remember there was a film, which told the story of a skilled card player who founded a casino, he founded it because he saw the profits he could get, but every now and then he still gambled and his favorite game was poker, even if you weren't good at gambling, you would there are times when you want to gamble just to relieve fatigue and so on, gambling is an activity that many people cannot refuse, especially those who set up a gambling business.

I will agree with you on this point, that it is true that the owner of the gambling websites does not play that amount of gambling on his website, but they also primarily or occasionally for the user experience. Moreover, initially when a gambling website is launched, you have to gamble on your own website to see if all its systems are working properly. To be more detailed about this, many times the gambling website owner can't do it alone, so people hire people for website testing.

That is a great initiative of the owner just to be sure that everything went well. Not necessarily he will do it always as they could hire someone to perform daily checking of the site for possible bugs and errors. It was part of the operation and even the owner will play, it doesn't mean that for site checking, it can also be playing like a normal gambler does. In fact, the main role of the owner is to oversee the operation, and not the one who performs the task personally that is why there is a crew/staff hired designated for such a position and function based on their role.

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Quote from: Renampun on November 29, 2023, 03:26:48 PM

I don't know for sure whether gambling owners do gambling too, but I'm sure they definitely do that too, it's impossible for you to set up a business that you don't know how to play. I still remember there was a film, which told the story of a skilled card player who founded a casino, he founded it because he saw the profits he could get, but every now and then he still gambled and his favorite game was poker, even if you weren't good at gambling, you would there are times when you want to gamble just to relieve fatigue and so on, gambling is an activity that many people cannot refuse, especially those who set up a gambling business.

I will agree with you on this point, that it is true that the owner of the gambling websites does not play that amount of gambling on his website, but they also primarily or occasionally for the user experience. Moreover, initially when a gambling website is launched, you have to gamble on your own website to see if all its systems are working properly. To be more detailed about this, many times the gambling website owner can't do it alone, so people hire people for website testing.

Topic: Do Owners of betting companies bet? - page 7. (Read 1691 times)