Do you believe Michael Saylor is currently getting antsy?

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Quote from: thecodebear on January 26, 2022, 01:53:13 PM

Quote from: LucasTerry on January 21, 2022, 04:14:39 AM

The purchase price of Microstrategy in Ave is around $31,500. Additionally, Tesla's average buy-in price is $36k. Is Elon going to sell?

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

Why would they sell LOW?? They have their whole future ahead of them to sell high. I doubt they got to be rich CEOs by implementing a sell at a loss strategy lol.

My speculation for that question would be if Tesla and Microstrategy’s stock prices went down because their quarterly income statement is being affected negatively because of their bitcoins held in their treasury, this might cause shareholders to pressure the company to sell their coins. However, between Tesla and Microstrategy, it is very clear that Tesla would be the first to dump if one of them dumps.

Also, it is not only Tesla and Microstrategy that are exposed to bitcoin. There are other institutional investors who are holding it, who also might dump it without thinking twice if their portfolios of stocks and bonds are taking losses. This might appear anatagonistic for much of you, however, I am not being antagonistic. This is reality.

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Quote from: thecodebear on January 26, 2022, 01:53:13 PM

Quote from: LucasTerry on January 21, 2022, 04:14:39 AM

The purchase price of Microstrategy in Ave is around $31,500. Additionally, Tesla's average buy-in price is $36k. Is Elon going to sell?

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

Why would they sell LOW?? They have their whole future ahead of them to sell high. I doubt they got to be rich CEOs by implementing a sell at a loss strategy lol.

This, the most important part of being an investor is being capable of holding your investment even when it goes against your preferred direction, basically if the asset in which you invested goes down then it is very easy to give up and sell, but if you do that then you are never going to recover the money you lost, this is why it is important to watch the fundamentals of the asset in which you want to invest and if they are still solid then you have no option but to keep holding and wait until the negative trend passes.

thecodebear

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Quote from: LucasTerry on January 21, 2022, 04:14:39 AM

The purchase price of Microstrategy in Ave is around $31,500. Additionally, Tesla's average buy-in price is $36k. Is Elon going to sell?

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

Why would they sell LOW?? They have their whole future ahead of them to sell high. I doubt they got to be rich CEOs by implementing a sell at a loss strategy lol.

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Quote from: Silberman on January 25, 2022, 01:29:53 PM

Quote from: bittraffic on January 22, 2022, 05:51:04 AM

It's possible that they have already sold in $60K. Or they just hold.

They bought a lot of BTC, I'm sure they wanted profit through it so it's only logical for them to sell and make money out of it. Michael Saylor or Elon must have hired a bunch of traders who do manage their portfolio to grow. Saylor has a Grayscale platform himself, he knows how to do it himself. If we only knew the BTC they have, it will be clear for us to see.

That will be without a doubt an interesting scenario, even if he did not sold all of his holdings if he sold some of his portfolio during the ATH then he has money and he can take advantage of the new dip or at least to resist it, still it is going to be interesting to see what he does from now on as the markets are really unstable with the whole Ukraine situation going on so it will be difficult to see recovery anytime soon.

Agreed. The thread should not be about if Michael Saylor is getting anxious, it should be more about what price is Michael Saylor waiting to buy the dip. It is very clear already that the community should not be worried about him or his conviction on his investment in bitcoin. Whatever Saylor is presently doing, we can be quite certain that he is always ready to buy more.

Michael Saylor in his room

Silberman

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Quote from: bittraffic on January 22, 2022, 05:51:04 AM

It's possible that they have already sold in $60K. Or they just hold.

They bought a lot of BTC, I'm sure they wanted profit through it so it's only logical for them to sell and make money out of it. Michael Saylor or Elon must have hired a bunch of traders who do manage their portfolio to grow. Saylor has a Grayscale platform himself, he knows how to do it himself. If we only knew the BTC they have, it will be clear for us to see.

That will be without a doubt an interesting scenario, even if he did not sold all of his holdings if he sold some of his portfolio during the ATH then he has money and he can take advantage of the new dip or at least to resist it, still it is going to be interesting to see what he does from now on as the markets are really unstable with the whole Ukraine situation going on so it will be difficult to see recovery anytime soon.

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Quote from: Lucius on January 22, 2022, 05:16:41 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 21, 2022, 10:17:23 PM

It would not be very shocking if there is an SEC filing that announces Tesla’s dump of bitcoins.

In the long run that would be very good news, no one needs that manipulator and the distorted idea that he means something to Bitcoin. His 40 000 BTC means nothing, just scares people like you who worry about what he will do. If I have to vote for BTC in Mr.Mars pocket or all those BTC in the wallets of ordinary people, I choose the latter - hope he dumps those coins as soon as possible.

Why are you assuming that I am worried? Also, I was only comparing Elon and Michael Saylor’s conviction on their bitcoin investment and I was only speculating that Elon would be first to dump if one of them would dump.

If bitcoin dumps more from the present price, their quarterly income statement would lessen the company’s income or increase loss if unprofitable. This might possibly also affect the company’s stock price which will make shareholders unhappy.

In any case, why would you say that Tesla’s dumping of coins held in their treasury be good for bitcoin? Would this not lessen institutional adoption?

Also, agreed in more bitcoins should be in the pockets of ordinary people if also given the choice.

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Quote from: stompix on January 22, 2022, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on January 22, 2022, 08:03:09 AM

Am sure MS is prepared to take hits on two or three running years even. As long as they keep buying, they'll get their dues after the next halving rally.

Slight correction, as long as poeple keep lending him the money to buy coins he can take as many hits as he wants. Cheesy

But I don't see the point in doing so, either go buy BTC directly or at least invest in something that still makes a profit out of BTC even during bear season, although the option here are pretty limited.

I never quite understood that either, giving someone else money to invest in something you could easily do yourself for better rates. If it was about interest, BTC's volatility simply doesn't make sense for that model.

Fully expecting Saylor to be announcing doubling down or tripling down on buys at this bargain price... I mean he's got to not look like he changed his mind, assuming he's cut from that cloth like all wealthy people putting money where their mouth are.

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I don’t think Tesla will sell their holdings if it dips below their average. Who knows if it goes lower they can even buy more. However it’s different for Saylor….

From what I understand he raised some funds or created debt to buy some of his bitcoins. And I have no idea how it works but there might be a possibility that he might be forced to liquidate some of his position. If he bought it with pure cash then it’s a different story however a large percentage of his position was with raised funds and no idea if they are subject to any term. Bitcoin can dip too low and he might be pressured to sell unlike Tesla.

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Quote from: LucasTerry on January 21, 2022, 04:14:39 AM

The purchase price of Microstrategy in Ave is around $31,500. Additionally, Tesla's average buy-in price is $36k. Is Elon going to sell?

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

They are buying more for sure, to be honest, these days is the best time to buy Bitcoin, look how discounted it is.
And for Tesla, I am pretty sure that what's their Bitcoin balance is just small for them so I am positive that they are not selling it.

Even Michale Saylor, Microstrategy. We all know how huge a believer of Bitcoin Saylor is, they got diamond hands.

STT

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Quote from: bittraffic on January 22, 2022, 05:51:04 AM

It's possible that they have already sold in $60K. Or they just hold.

Its not really possible, we'd know about a seller of this size. This is more gradual and crowd based selling by multiple people, a natural sell off though with pressure from external events I think.
Even if Saylor hedged we'd probably know about that too, with the counter party having to be pretty considerable. He is a large holder for sure

I would estimate if we close the weekly bar here it is appearing to be some kind of more nasty level sell off. So it doesnt have to be taken in a fatalistic way but also (quite likely) the damage done will take time to accumulate momentum upwards. The old guard in BTC wont be too surprised or wary about it, not new to have a bigger cycle. I imagine Saylor knows people with level of experience even if he doesnt have it himself.

stompix

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MSTR stocks are getting hammered, down to $375, the lowest value ever since January 2020, the lowest value since their first bitcoin purchase.
And seems like it's not just the BTC price is causing this:

SEC Objects to MicroStrategy’s Accounting Adjustment for Its Bitcoin Holdings
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/01/21/microstrategys-bitcoin-accounting-adjustment-is-rejected-by-sec-report/
Not anything new for him anyhow
https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2000-186.txt

Quote from: buwaytress on January 22, 2022, 08:03:09 AM

Am sure MS is prepared to take hits on two or three running years even. As long as they keep buying, they'll get their dues after the next halving rally.

Slight correction, as long as poeple keep lending him the money to buy coins he can take as many hits as he wants. Cheesy

But I don't see the point in doing so, either go buy BTC directly or at least invest in something that still makes a profit out of BTC even during bear season, although the option here are pretty limited.

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Not a lover of Saylor, but the way he's been acting with his buys says anything but him keen to think in short term. Antsy doesn't at all feel like an option for someone who knowingly bought during a rally. You don't make those statement buys thinking of one or two years, or even one cycle (of about 4 years).

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 21, 2022, 10:17:23 PM

Microstrategy’s bitcoins bought on 2020 might be profitable, however, their bitcoins that were bought during 2021 are presently with a loss according to this article.

Estimates have suggested that Tesla bought its $1.5 billion BTC stash at an average price of $34,200 a coin.

Am sure MS is prepared to take hits on two or three running years even. As long as they keep buying, they'll get their dues after the next halving rally.

Tesla still in profit today, amazing! Wink

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It's possible that they have already sold in $60K. Or they just hold.

They bought a lot of BTC, I'm sure they wanted profit through it so it's only logical for them to sell and make money out of it. Michael Saylor or Elon must have hired a bunch of traders who do manage their portfolio to grow. Saylor has a Grayscale platform himself, he knows how to do it himself. If we only knew the BTC they have, it will be clear for us to see.

Lucius

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Quote from: stompix on January 21, 2022, 01:19:22 PM

Elon and Saylor are two different cases.
First, there is the size of the business involved, Tesla vs Microstrategy which there is not even worth a debate, then there is the way they acquired those coins, for Tesla, it was a purchase of 0.1% compared to its size made from their funds, in the case of Micro it was totally different.

Of course, these are two different cases - Saylor played all in on BTC, and Mr. Mars bought a chewing gum that he can spit out at any time without regretting it too much - for someone who has hundreds of billions, one or two doesn't mean too much - noting that he has already sold 10% (and maybe more) of BTC that his company bought.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 21, 2022, 10:17:23 PM

It would not be very shocking if there is an SEC filing that announces Tesla’s dump of bitcoins.

In the long run that would be very good news, no one needs that manipulator and the distorted idea that he means something to Bitcoin. His 40 000 BTC means nothing, just scares people like you who worry about what he will do. If I have to vote for BTC in Mr.Mars pocket or all those BTC in the wallets of ordinary people, I choose the latter - hope he dumps those coins as soon as possible.

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Quote from: Lucius on January 21, 2022, 11:33:23 AM

It's hard to say what's in his head, but he certainly didn't make an investment like this without a plan. In addition, his initial investment took place back in 2020, when the price of BTC was just around $20k or less - the average price at which he bought was around $30k if you take into account the entire period from 2020 until today.

Should the price go even further down, and if we really confirm the four-year cycle and the new crypto winter, Saylor may have no choice but to sell part of BTC.

...or DCA, this is really what he has been practicing since 2020. They have always
seemed to buy when the markets are down.

It would be a complete U-turn from what he has been preaching if he were to sell.

I believe he believes 100% in Bitcoins future so if he is a HODLer he will continue to HODL.

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As much as he has a long term view, at some point he may get anxious. I don't think the current price is going to change Saylor's plans, if anything he is thinking about how to finance the next purchase, but now let's assume the price in a few months goes below $20K, which would never have happened in previous cycles (going below the previous ATH), but which is not impossible to happen. I think he would be a little nervous.

Saylor has turned his company into a derivative product of Bitcoin, and nervousness in the markets translates into considerable price declines I think something will affect his mood, even if he has a long term vision.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 21, 2022, 10:17:23 PM

However, we should not be worried about Michael Saylor. He appears to be a strong handed hodler who will have an ulcers proof stomach to hold until the end of time hehe. But the person who we should be monitoring is Elon Musk and also Tesla. Elon is more unpredictable and Tesla’s bitcoins is almost in loss with an average price of $34,200. It would not be very shocking if there is an SEC filing that announces Tesla’s dump of bitcoins.

There is nothing to worry about Michael Saylor as he can have more experience on what he needs to do related to market situations. If Tesla's dump bitcoins, that can make the price go down for more and make more people panic while they still hold their bitcoin. But we should not think too serious about that instead of focusing on how to buy more bitcoin at a low price. It is a hard situation for smallholders but it could be hard too for a big holder like the companies that already bought bitcoin at more than $40k because they are now losing their money if they sell their bitcoin.

If they can still hold and buy more bitcoin, their average buying price can get down and they can rebalance their portfolio and I think they lose will not be too big and have more chances to make a big profit later. We as a smallholder needs to use this time to accumulate more bitcoin and this is a good time to buy more bitcoin.

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Quote from: OgNasty on January 21, 2022, 05:49:36 PM

Isn't he still profitable not only massively with his personal trades, but also with his company's Bitcoin purchases? Does he have to give back any bonuses or salary? Do we suddenly forget his name? Will his creditors break his kneecaps if he can't pay? Is he having to eat ramen or apply for a job at McDonalds? Will he suddenly find himself without bikini babes at his mansion?

I think if you answer those questions to yourself, you'll know he's not too worried. I'm sure if Bitcoin goes to 0 he's still acquired more wealth than 99% of the folks on this forum. I don't think that's something to get antsy about. If anything he's plotting another massive buy with a debt offering and trying to get some billionaire buddies on board. I think his approach is for people to buy all the bitcoins and price them at whatever he wants. A lower price could be viewed as an easier path to get there.

Microstrategy’s bitcoins bought on 2020 might be profitable, however, their bitcoins that were bought during 2021 are presently with a loss according to this article.

Source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-19/bitcoin-hodler-saylor-says-microstrategy-will-never-sell-stash

However, we should not be worried about Michael Saylor. He appears to be a strong handed hodler who will have an ulcers proof stomach to hold until the end of time hehe. But the person who we should be monitoring is Elon Musk and also Tesla. Elon is more unpredictable and Tesla’s bitcoins is almost in loss with an average price of $34,200. It would not be very shocking if there is an SEC filing that announces Tesla’s dump of bitcoins.

Estimates have suggested that Tesla bought its $1.5 billion BTC stash at an average price of $34,200 a coin.

Source https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/revealed-how-much-profit-tesla-has-made-after-buying-bitcoin

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Quote from: LucasTerry on January 21, 2022, 04:14:39 AM

The purchase price of Microstrategy in Ave is around $31,500. Additionally, Tesla's average buy-in price is $36k. Is Elon going to sell?

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

I doubt that he cares too much.

It's not that he has much of a choice as to whether or not MSFT dumps the bag. He has committed on numerous occasions to shareholders that he will continue to hold for eternity.

Honestly, that strategy doesn't make much sense given that a) there is not yield generated on any of the BTC holdings and b) anyone looking to hold BTC for the long term should probably avoid buying it in the form of proxy stock.

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Quote from: OgNasty on January 21, 2022, 05:49:36 PM

Isn't he still profitable not only massively with his personal trades, but also with his company's Bitcoin purchases? Does he have to give back any bonuses or salary? Do we suddenly forget his name? Will his creditors break his kneecaps if he can't pay? Is he having to eat ramen or apply for a job at McDonalds? Will he suddenly find himself without bikini babes at his mansion?

I think if you answer those questions to yourself, you'll know he's not too worried. I'm sure if Bitcoin goes to 0 he's still acquired more wealth than 99% of the folks on this forum. I don't think that's something to get antsy about. If anything he's plotting another massive buy with a debt offering and trying to get some billionaire buddies on board. I think his approach is for people to buy all the bitcoins and price them at whatever he wants. A lower price could be viewed as an easier path to get there.

This part in bold type deserves a merit.

Topic: Do you believe Michael Saylor is currently getting antsy? (Read 417 times)