Do you even want all your BTC to be anonymous.

Anonylz

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Quote from: Minor Miner on February 08, 2022, 02:36:24 PM

Speaking of p2p transactions, it used to be very difficult, but now it is very easy. There was a time when there were not enough customers or buyers to do p2p transactions, there was also a matter of security. But finding a p2p buyer is not a difficult task at present. Nowadays all freelancers know about Bitcoin and everyone has a group to do p2p transactions. So, now it is possible to transact with tax evasion if you want.

True if you happen to be in a very restricted and highly monitored p2p2 group it will be a lot easier to transact because there are escrow services in the group to be used,
I remember used to be in one and the admins were mainly the escrow providers but it wasn't enough to keep scammers at bay, there were many of them pretending to be admins to scam. P2p2 have a high chance of getting scam than using the actual exchange with the constant talk about regulation of btc and crypto I think having btc anonymous won't matter much to some people because from a recent post I saw about Michael Saylor request for btc regulation, majority of posters believe regulations is the way forward. So it all depends on the owner an

Minor Miner

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Quote from: fiulpro on February 08, 2022, 12:10:41 PM

Fact is: Can you even make all your bitcoins anonymous??
Most of the things are tracked and at the end of the day you would have to encash bitcoins at most places because you don't really have a lot of options in developing countries. Therefore if you want to buy something significant, you won't be able to find so many p2p transactions and somehow you would have to use a wallet, but most wallets are now required to submit KYC therefore even if they don't they would still be caught the moment the money comes in the bank, which would essentially be reported to the government. The wallet that I have been using have started making the tax statements for every person as well. Therefore I think it's essentially impossible in certain situations and countries.

Speaking of p2p transactions, it used to be very difficult, but now it is very easy. There was a time when there were not enough customers or buyers to do p2p transactions, there was also a matter of security. But finding a p2p buyer is not a difficult task at present. Nowadays all freelancers know about Bitcoin and everyone has a group to do p2p transactions. So, now it is possible to transact with tax evasion if you want.

fiulpro

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Fact is: Can you even make all your bitcoins anonymous??
Most of the things are tracked and at the end of the day you would have to encash bitcoins at most places because you don't really have a lot of options in developing countries. Therefore if you want to buy something significant, you won't be able to find so many p2p transactions and somehow you would have to use a wallet, but most wallets are now required to submit KYC therefore even if they don't they would still be caught the moment the money comes in the bank, which would essentially be reported to the government. The wallet that I have been using have started making the tax statements for every person as well. Therefore I think it's essentially impossible in certain situations and countries.

crwth

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It's better to make everything legitimate to have no problems with the law, and everything that you have worked for will be gone if you hadn't done it the right way. It's better to remit everything needed because it's not going to haunt you, and you're not going to be worried if someone audits you or something. If you were to convert it at an exchange or something, I think that's where they can audit you or something.

yat97

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Absolutely! F**K KYC!
At very least should be optional....

The US gov, from what I understand, want taxes on every single trade even if you dont sell for cash? That's insane. I dont even mind paying taxes once I cash out. But if I swapped some btc for litecoin or vise verse it shouldn't be a tax, that's retarded. The wallet I'm on, it doesn't keep track of my trades and measures everything in sats not dollars so I typically have no idea how much of an increase if any there was when I traded. I think I typically traded at losses technically since all my btc was paid for via overpaying. if btc is 40k I'm paying nearly 60k from an ATM which sucks. That's the cost of privacy for me uhg >_<

But uh.... hey..... so.... can someone explain how that works tho? If you can't prove the price that you paid for it... they treat it as zero? Huh

What? THat's fucking scary. Maybe I should just never sell since pretty much all my btc is anon... O_O

I hear people can borrow against their btc instead of selling so idk.

Quote from: Olayinka2225 on December 15, 2021, 10:39:48 PM

Is btc or crypto even Anonymous again. Because so many of us have done KYC on so many of decentralized exchanges and if regulation should come into crypto, Everybody will be required to pay taxes on whatever amount of crypto he's having in his decentralized wallet

Pretty sure they have trouble keeping track of crypto once it leaves US controlled exchanges.

But, what can they do for people who buy from an exchange but immediately convert to XMR then back to btc?
Or send through btc mixers?

mynonce

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Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM

There are many who think all BTC should be anonymous.
...
Just a random Saturday thought.

Can you imagine, someone transferring some BTC from a 'Patoshi'* account and let us know who she/he is?

Just a random Monday thought.

'Patoshi'*: early BTC miner (2009 - 2010), holding ~1.1 million BTC - https://cryptowords.github.io/the-return-of-the-deniers-and-the-revenge-of-patoshi

Ozero

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It is hardly worth striving for Bitcoin to be completely anonymous. The current elements of anonymity and confidentiality are enough. We need to be prepared that states will tighten the rules for the circulation of cryptocurrencies and fight even with the current manifestations of anonymity. If states are not satisfied with the state of anonymity of cryptocurrencies, they will prohibit its circulation. Cryptocurrency needs legalization in society and peaceful coexistence with the national currencies of states. Only under such conditions can it have the necessary infrastructure for its use as a means of payment.

Olayinka2225

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Is btc or crypto even Anonymous again. Because so many of us have done KYC on so many of decentralized exchanges and if regulation should come into crypto, Everybody will be required to pay taxes on whatever amount of crypto he's having in his decentralized wallet

The Cryptovator

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I like privacy, I like anonymity, but it's quite complicated to maintain. Buying Bitcoin with fiat and selling for fiat is a complicated process. If it's legal in your country then you can buy but it will be a matter of tax. My country does not allow trade Bitcoin so I have to buy anonymously and sell it anonymously as well. But somehow at the end of the day, I have to reveal privacy. Especially selling time, either I have to take cash or deposit into the bank. So if unusual activity is noticed by the bank then my account would freeze. So I can say it's quite impossible for to stay anonymous for me. But we might hide from the government by selling it in the black market, but still revealing privacy actually. I don't know if there is any way to skip that.

sirminesalot

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Quote from: Luzin on December 14, 2021, 09:17:25 AM

Sure, if it was me then I would keep hiding from KYC to be anonymous. If you can all transactions on the exchange without KYC it will be more interesting. But it doesn't seem to be possible because there are regulations. In addition, KYC is also useful as evidence of security verification. Although actually if it is changed as fiat money in the end money from BTC will flow to the Bank. At the Bank we are required to provide identity as evidence as well. What I fear is the security of my identity, because KYC uses digital indetity that bad people can use.

Yeah most people think the cryptocurrency is no need to be regulated and let it as right now because crypto people doesn't need to be regulated, the anonymousity of crypto is the main reason for people coming. Scams or hacks couldn't be handled by any law because of it's not regulated, that's the bad things that happen if it keeps anonymous but yeah, that's the art of crypto itself

Luzin

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Sure, if it was me then I would keep hiding from KYC to be anonymous. If you can all transactions on the exchange without KYC it will be more interesting. But it doesn't seem to be possible because there are regulations. In addition, KYC is also useful as evidence of security verification. Although actually if it is changed as fiat money in the end money from BTC will flow to the Bank. At the Bank we are required to provide identity as evidence as well. What I fear is the security of my identity, because KYC uses digital indetity that bad people can use.

bitgolden

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Well everyone is different, and the choices we make is also going to be different. If I myself can figure out how to go about a situation like that, then I would likely be preferring that my transactions are just kept totally private. Everyone has their choice to make, and like I said, for as long as you know how to go about it then you can do that.

I just see a lot of people who say they don’t like making use of centralized exchanges, and personally, I hardly make use of all these centralized exchanges, and I can’t even remember the last time that I used a centralized exchange to buy cryptocurrency. I have mostly, recently, been making use of decentralized exchanges which are peer to peer and requires no KYC. Another thing is that where I live, it might be easy for me to pull this off, but it wouldn’t be easy for you. So whatever works for you, just do that.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Kakmakr on December 12, 2021, 05:17:20 AM

There are not actually people taking note of all the serial numbers of your paper notes and following all your cash transactions.... so why should Pseudo anonymity or financial privacy be an issue with Bitcoin?

Because it's the new kid on the block. If cash never existed and someone introduced it for the first time today, you can guarantee lawmakers would be all over it, lambasting it for allowing money laundering, untraceable illegal transactions, supporting the drug trade, "Won't you think of the children!", and all the usual nonsense. We see it in commonly in other branches of government and policy as well; compounds which are less harmful than alcohol and less addicting than caffeine are scheduled drugs. If alcohol was discovered for the first time today it would be a Schedule 1 drug.

Quote from: Kakmakr on December 12, 2021, 05:17:20 AM

People do not have the ability to see from the cash that you give them.. How much cash you have left, so why should this be any different with your Bitcoin transactions?

Because most people don't hold the majority of their wealth in cash but rather in bank accounts and various investments. The banks and the government don't care about your protecting your privacy from people you are transacting with, as long as they are able to monitor you, which they can't do if you use bitcoin smartly.

bL4nkcode

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If it's one of the choice when exchanging btc to fiat, of course, why not.

One of the reasons why people avoid getting taxed is because of the percentage that authority take which is sometimes is injustice compare to other service people used.

When you exchange btc to fiat there's a fee, transferring it to bank account has fees as well, and then some authorities wants to declare people's holding, transactions involve in crypto is getting taxed as well. So you will get -negative balance after that.

People will say that its better than to ban crypto in the country but to those who experienced it a lot, it's a big difference.

SFR10

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Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM

does anyone worry that some of that might come back to bite them in the ass at some point in time when it comes to taxes

If I was someone who kept avoiding the taxes, then "yes ^{[it's inevitable]}".

Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM
proof of ownership / other things.
Depending on the situation, I can argue on both sides... It's 50-50.

Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM

So following that, so do you really want it all with no paper trail. Or even a difficult to follow trail, since if it is difficult to follow and you do have to prove it you might spend a lot in time and effort (read money) proving it.

Personally, I prefer to go with a route that doesn't lead to a big mess in the future!

Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 06:16:25 PM

but if I handed you cash and you sent it to me how do I really prove it.

Since only one part of the equation is dealing with cash, then the other side still has to make a transaction ^{[assuming that you're not going to receive the private key from the other involved party]} and that means you can still find a record of it with the help of certain explorers that also lists their value when each of those transactions was made.

nullama

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Personally I think the best is to just treat Bitcoin as any other asset.

That means, depending on your country, you might be able to get a reduction in taxes if you held it for more than a year for example.

In Germany you are discounted 100% of capital gains tax if you hold Bitcoin for at least a year before selling it.

In Australia you are discounted 50% of capital gains tax if you hold Bitcoin for at least a year before selling it.

Etc.

That way, you will have no problems with exchanges, banks, tax agencies, etc, while using tax incentives available in your country.

buwaytress

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Great points OP, some I've touched on myself on past threads. I do agree: the rights to privacy, and anonymity, must be respected, and must be possible. So Bitcoin's recent technology and most recent upgrade is in this direction, as it has been for the past 3 years since the scalability debate settled.

But for my personal use, because:
- I am a freelancer with some clients who couldn't work without my identity
- I am a taxpayer who does want to serve my social dues

These and other reasons that fit my situation and circumstance require me to not be anonymous at exchanges, with my home tax jurisdiction.

Lucius

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Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM

~snip~
So following that, so do you really want it all with no paper trail. Or even a difficult to follow trail, since if it is difficult to follow and you do have to prove it you might spend a lot in time and effort (read money) proving it.

Anonymity comes at a price, and when it comes to Bitcoin most people have invested through centralized exchanges anyway and have made KYC, so there is a clue about activities they can’t hide. Except for those who live in the delusion that they can hide their profits, most will still pay taxes and sleep peacefully without fear of the IRS.

I am in a situation where I can pay 0% tax if 2 years have passed since the purchase, and of course, it is in my interest that there is a paper trail to prove it. But when it comes to what I earn from signature campaigns, then every time I receive a payment I would have to report it to the tax office which would mean every week - and this is insane and completely unacceptable - and even crazier for faucets, I should do it every day.

Therefore, I have a good reason for a part of BTC to be anonymous, and legal investments are certainly desirable to be recorded because I do not have to pay taxes after the legal deadline for that.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: DaveF on December 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM

So there are some serious no KYC people on this board. There are many who think all BTC should be anonymous.
We continually have several threads on it getting posts all the time.
Even a one I started about privacy vs. anonymity https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/privacy-vs-anonymity-5366195

But..... does anyone worry that some of that might come back to bite them in the ass at some point in time when it comes to taxes / proof of ownership / other things.

Case in point. I bought 1BTC on Coinbase in 2016 at under $600 a BTC I sold it this year. I know I am going to take it up the ass in taxes. It is what it is.

Now lets say I bought 1BTC anonymously and I can find someone to give me the $50000 in cash today. I should report it and if whoever gives me the money should report it, and if we don't report it it does violate the law. But, whatever. Once again, that is up to how an individual wants to do something.

Here comes the kicker.
Lets say at the last big bullrun in 2017 I bought 10BTC @ $16000 when it hit $60000 this I wanted to sell and get a really nice house somewhere. If all BTC I accumulated back in 2017 was anonymous. I am going to really take it up the ass in taxes since I can't prove what I paid for it....since it was anonymous. So the IRS will take it as $0 cost.

So following that, so do you really want it all with no paper trail. Or even a difficult to follow trail, since if it is difficult to follow and you do have to prove it you might spend a lot in time and effort (read money) proving it.

Just a random Saturday thought.

-Dave

Well, I think most people have Pseudo Anonymity when they use cash .. right. There are not actually people taking note of all the serial numbers of your paper notes and following all your cash transactions.... so why should Pseudo anonymity or financial privacy be an issue with Bitcoin?

People do not have the ability to see from the cash that you give them.. How much cash you have left, so why should this be any different with your Bitcoin transactions? We are Pseudo anonymous to protect that information... not because we want to evade taxes. Wink

yazher

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You just don't have any idea how the other government seized that money from you as soon as they know you are holding a huge amount of it. Of course, you may not experience it in your country since you are residing in someplace where they don't really bother about how much do you own as long as you are paying some taxes but in our country, you need to be vigilant and careful. you need to have lots of connections if you own a huge amount of BTC because if those corrupt officials trace you, they will just simply put you in jail and get everything from you. those people don't have a conscience after all. When they raid houses they get every appliance inside the house, so what more if they knew about your precious BTC?

Topic: Do you even want all your BTC to be anonymous. (Read 337 times)