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Topic: Do you think Bitcoin has matter property? - page 2. (Read 362 times)

hero member
Activity: 3038
Merit: 617
I do not imagine bitcoin as a matter, but this does not mean that it does not have real value.

He actually means that it has matter properties that make it valuable.  But no matter, it seems not a reality. It's just in his mind.
Bitcoin exists with protocols. It's all there is and we just gave it a value because someone started it with pizza and because there is a property or a characteristic of Bitcoin to be rare which we all know only has 21M as total supply, its value increased. Its how it becomes valuable.

If there are other minerals that we could consider to be valuable and could be used as the money we might actually be using it but then history will once again repeat because humans will always bet and inflate and then once again create banknotes as it had been done in the past.
copper member
Activity: 154
Merit: 234
Your reasoning is interesting, but  can hardly agree with them. So, you are arguing that the most important basic characteristic of materials is "uniqueness" or "non-reproducibility." People and all living objects in general, in order to ensure their continued existence, must leave offspring, that is, constantly reproduce. Then, according to your theory, we have no signs of materiality. And bitcoin, which is just a mathematical algorithm, has become tangible.
To have materiality, any object must exist in time and space. If the object is not characterized by them, it cannot be recognized as material.

I think your this sentence is very reasonable.To have materiality, any object must exist in time and space. If the object is not characterized by them, it cannot be recognized as material.In the bitcoin network system, we have seen an independent time system, which is separated from the time calculation of our physical world. It is completely independent of bitcoin itself. This is the timestamp server of bitcoin. It constructs an independent time system, not relying on any external system. We determine the causality of one thing's sequence according to the block height of bitcoin. However, when it comes to how bitcoin builds an independent space system, to be honest, I don't have a clear answer now. I'm still thinking and exploring.
full member
Activity: 2142
Merit: 183
Your reasoning is interesting, but  can hardly agree with them. So, you are arguing that the most important basic characteristic of materials is "uniqueness" or "non-reproducibility." People and all living objects in general, in order to ensure their continued existence, must leave offspring, that is, constantly reproduce. Then, according to your theory, we have no signs of materiality. And bitcoin, which is just a mathematical algorithm, has become tangible.
To have materiality, any object must exist in time and space. If the object is not characterized by them, it cannot be recognized as material.
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 403
Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.
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In our existing business system and the Internet, the currency we use is also in the form of information, which is recorded in the bank's ledger system. For the currency information of different bank books, most of them are centrally controlled by the government. The government can continuously issue currency through the central bank. Currency issuance is purely digital issuance without any new value creation. The value created by people is diluted by currency oversupply. This is the basic contradiction of current human society.

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It actually seems contradictory or it violates the "law of nature". It's one of the main reasons we have inflations. People work hard to produce things while someone is secretly/publicly printing lots of money out of thin air to buy up the products and with no intention of replacing them, and then things start increasing in price even beyond the reach of those who produce those things. Hard money like bitcoin solves this problem by limiting coin supply and preventing double spending
copper member
Activity: 154
Merit: 234
As I mentioned earlier, Bitcoin is the fruit of varied subjects, such as economics, monetary science, mathematics, computer science, logic, game theory, social science, anthropology and law. In learning and thinking about Bitcoin, we are supposed to put it in an integrated knowledge system instead of an isolated situation.

But if we think deeply, Bitcoin can touch upon physics, chemistry, biology even philosophy as well. Maybe no one has ever thought about Bitcoin in this way. Though what I’m going to say is indigestible, I deem it necessary to share my opinion.

Do you think Bitcoin has matter property?

Before answering, let’s make it clear about what is matter.

Some philosophical view is that everything in the world has various form and diversified development, which are all the external manifestation of objective reality, in other words, matters, the vehicle of all appearance. Matters can not be created or removed. The survival and downfall of all things is merely the transformation of different matter forms.

Movement and change are the fundamental attributes of matters. Movement generates time, change generates space, the universe is delivered by matters. Everything is certain divergent form of moving matters. The matter keeps in motion and interacts with each other. The matter has the property of maintaining the original equilibrium state, but the interaction between the matters destroys the balance. The most basic properties of matter consist of balance and movement. This contradiction promotes the transformation of matters from inorganic to organic to multi-molecular systems,promotes the evolution of matters from molecules to life.

These are the philosophy and biology category definition of matter.

Now I want to talk about physics. Physics is a discipline that studies the laws of movement and basic structure of matters. The research scope of physics includes the atom to the universe, so it has become the research foundation of other natural science disciplines. Physics is an experimental science, and it is also a science that advocates rationality and values logical reasoning. Physics uses mathematics as its working language and is the most sophisticated natural science today.

In my opinion, the most important basic characteristic of matters is "uniqueness" or "non-reproducibility". After a thing has this characteristic, we can call it "matter". The point I want to make now is: Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin and gave it matter properties. This is a creation based on mathematics and algorithms. The objective substantiality of Bitcoin is directly reflected at the atomic level.

An atom is the smallest unit of ordinary matter that forms a chemical element. Every atom is composed of a nucleus and one or more electrons bound to the nucleus. Element is a pure substance consisting only of atoms that all have the same numbers of protons in their atomic nuclei. From a philosophical point of view, the element is the result of quantitative change causes qualitative changes of atomic protons. By November 2016, the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry had recognized a total of 118 elements.

What is the relationship between chemical elements and Bitcoin? After thinking about Bitcoin, we found that Bitcoin also has the basic properties of matter, uniqueness and non-reproducibility. We can understand that in the digital bit civilization, Bitcoin is a kind of matter, which has the basic properties of matter. It also obeys the physical laws of the world.

In the past, humans used silver and gold as currency, which was determined by the basic properties of gold and silver. Gold and silver are made of atoms, and humans cannot change their basic properties. Humans can only divide or merge gold, which is the uniqueness and non-replicability of matter.

Our current work and life are inseparable from the Internet, and the current Internet can be called the "Internet of Information". The biggest feature of information is that it can be copied, and there is almost no cost. When information can be copied infinitely, they lose their unique value.

Why did humans use gold as a world currency in history? Gold is suitable as currency because it is rare and chemically stable. Human history is a process of plundering gold for the past 500 years. However, with the development of modern civilization, banks have become the basic institutions of commercial civilization. Currency is no longer anchored to gold, and the value of currency is based on the credit of centralized institutions. Currency no longer uses rare precious metals as credit endorsements, but becomes numbers on bank books. These numbers can be changed or copied by the bank. The government robbed the people of their wealth by printing legal currency.

However, this situation was changed by Bitcoin created by Satoshi Nakamoto. Satoshi Nakamoto gave Bitcoin the physical existence in the Internet field. By solving the problem of currency "double payment", Satoshi Nakamoto made Bitcoin unique and non-replicable. Just take gold as an example. When I give the gold in my hand to others, I no longer own the gold. Gold cannot be manufactured, copied or tampered with by humans, nor can its physical properties be changed. I have a bitcoin in my account, and now I transfer it to someone else's account, the bitcoin in my account no longer exists. It is impossible for me to have a backup of this bitcoin and use it many times. The same piece of gold can be divided into many pieces, but a bitcoin can also be divided into many pieces. Bitcoin and gold have similar physical properties, which are also determined by the laws of physics.

A physical object is a unique combination of atoms, which can only be cut and moved, but cannot be copied or forged. However, information does not have such characteristics. People can not only read this information, but also copy it. Ledgers and currencies can be copied more easily.

In our existing business system and the Internet, the currency we use is also in the form of information, which is recorded in the bank's ledger system. For the currency information of different bank books, most of them are centrally controlled by the government. The government can continuously issue currency through the central bank. Currency issuance is purely digital issuance without any new value creation. The value created by people is diluted by currency oversupply. This is the basic contradiction of current human society.

The physical world is governed by the laws of physics and mathematical theorems. No one can break through the limitations of the laws of physics to create matter. In the world of digital information, information can be copied. If we want to express our assets through information, we must enforce them through artificial rules, all of which are based on trust in centralized institutions. We first believe in the government, and we also believe in the banks that manage assets on behalf of the government. The smooth progress of human economic activities is based on trust in them. But this kind of trust is only trust, and it cannot cause substantial restrictions on the organization. Institutions can use rights to falsify, change accounts, and depreciate ordinary people’s assets.

But when Bitcoin was created, everything was changed. Bitcoin is endowed with material uniqueness and non-replicability. Bitcoin is also constrained by mathematical algorithms. No individual or collective can create Bitcoin, nor can it be copied unlimitedly. This is what I am talking about today that Bitcoin has physical reality.

This is my opinion, what about you?
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