Do you think China is playing a double game? - page 4.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it. Do remember this is how China became the 2nd larget economy in just 20 years.

The government is made up of political people who love to use any opportunity they see as being very beneficial to them. I cannot confirm that China is taking advantage of the negative situation of crypto in the US, but definitely they have some major benefits that come after and also for them to bring in crypto-related business gradually while they tend to regulate it.

Also, the government's ability to change a law depends on who is in office and the potential value the person discovers that such technology as Bitcoin can bring to their country. One of the reasons the government is not happy about Bitcoin is that they can't get their hands on its full regulation. So, probably, China has seen reason to start permitting cryptographic activities again.

vv181

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Which I am afraid did not succed as expected by CCP.

I'm sure their CBDC is carefully planned and its adoption will be fully supported to embark on any of the Digital Yuan visions. They surely have the capabilities to push the usage in order to utilize its functionality.

Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it.

Hongkong is more lenient compared to Mainland China. A mere recent situation in the US would be too insignificant to turn the table for them. I'm sure that cryptocurrency and bitcoin open up many possibilities, hence anyone in that place or whoever seizes the opportunity could be greatly benefitted from this. In another hand, many possibilities will be explored to see how users and businesses operate, regulation will surely be adjusted because of how the ecosystem develops.

tiCeR

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

We all know China banned Bitcoin and altcoin trading first. Next they went ahead and banned miners. After that they rolled out their own digital Yuan. Which I am afraid did not succed as expected by CCP. Now suddenly they are allowing HK to go ahead with crypto and become a hub of Bitcoin as well as Altcoin economy. The biggest bank in HK a few days back declared that they will support crypto.

I mean what do you guys think is going around with this decision of China. As per my understanding HK has become a shadow control colony of China. Which was not what they had promised to UK. This situation could become a problem for USA and it's allies in the future. Already we can see big companies (banks) in the US are now buying shares of Microstrategy, whereby they are indirectly investing in Bitcoin. As they now realize the potential of Bitcoin.

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it. Do remember this is how China became the 2nd larget economy in just 20 years.

First of all could you explain what I marked in your post? When you are now disappointed that the digital Yuan didn't work out, why are you into Bitcoin? Or are you even?

China isn't stupid. Perhaps they had to learn first before making the right decisions, but I doubt that is the case given that they are by far the world leader in artificial intelligence. It would surprise if they get it right on all kinds of topics from the digital world, but not in the case of cryptocurrencies. I think there is more going on in China than we think. May it be in terms of their Bitcoin holdings or may it be in developing things secretly.

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Yes, that is, I think China is trying to pull the rug out from under the feet of the United States, which is waging a war on crypto. This is a great opportunity for the Chinese government, the great competitor of the American economy.

I think they are trying to take advantage of the anxiety created by the US and attract crypto companies, as this way they will benefit economically and also prevent the US from controlling Crypto alone.

Unfortunately, the United States, with its hostile policy towards crypto, is helping China in its game.

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

We all know China banned Bitcoin and altcoin trading first. Next they went ahead and banned miners. After that they rolled out their own digital Yuan. Which I am afraid did not succed as expected by CCP. Now suddenly they are allowing HK to go ahead with crypto and become a hub of Bitcoin as well as Altcoin economy. The biggest bank in HK a few days back declared that they will support crypto.

I mean what do you guys think is going around with this decision of China. As per my understanding HK has become a shadow control colony of China. Which was not what they had promised to UK. This situation could become a problem for USA and it's allies in the future. Already we can see big companies (banks) in the US are now buying shares of Microstrategy, whereby they are indirectly investing in Bitcoin. As they now realize the potential of Bitcoin.

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it. Do remember this is how China became the 2nd larget economy in just 20 years.

One day you allow certain activity, another day you ban it, the next day allow again, in modern world, this won't be tolerated. A lot of people who were into cryptocurrencies in China already moved and settled in different countries since the ban of mining.
Also, to be honest, I don't understand how can this be a problem for the USA or allies. Is crypto adoption hard? Hell no! If the USA and allies want to adopt Bitcoin, they can do it in a few days. It will take some days to Amazon to adopt bitcoin payments, it will take some days to eBay, to twitter, to Walmart.

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Quote from: DaveF on April 20, 2023, 10:06:21 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 20, 2023, 09:22:35 AM

China is definitely playing double game! Not just on crypto but on many other aspects as well. Allowing Hong Kong to host crypto related business is a part of their ambitious gameplan. They are cashing in while US is showing signs of strengthening it's grips over crypto market. It's clear as broad daylight.

But I really don't understand US. They are allowing crypto companies to operate and allowing listing on stock exchanges. At the same time, giving enforcement agencies a freehand to act against them.

Because that is how you get regulation in.
Good or bad, you have to let people do something then you regulate it. If you regulate it 1st, people will do something else. That makes it harder to control so to speak.
If you are doing 'A' and the government comes in and says you have to do 'A' this way, assuming you are a legitimate business, work the way the government wants.
Anyone else will have to follow the same rules.

-Dave

The regulators are fighting over who is going to regulate crypto, they can't even say which is security and which is a commodity. And if ever Gensler says ETH is Security then it's the SEC who will regulate it but if it's a commodity, the CFTC regulates it. I can't remember the new commission they have come up though so maybe that new commission will eventually make regulatory clarity before Coinbase moves to Europe.

It's all up to the US government if they continue to push crypto companies away from the US, it will really prove that China is beating the West even in crypto. The advantage of China is that Hongkong is completely a different soil with different government policies while they still can be the boss in the mainland.

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it. Do remember this is how China became the 2nd larget economy in just 20 years.

China's GDP rise was because of its manufacturing sector and low cost of labor. Turns out communism works out really well when millions of people are working at slave wages set by the government in order to grow the country's economy. They've dialed back on the poverty a bit and redistributed the wealth they've gained, but their growth won't be sustainable. As for their Bitcoin bans, the U.S. won't be far behind in attempting to introduce their own digitalized currencies while implementing Bitcoin regulations. Europe will be the same way.

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China knows what they are doing, they are one of the early players of Bitcoin so if China banned Bitcoin, it is part of its plan. They don't want the world to know that they are involved in the early stages of it. In the game China is playing the key actors in the world know it and they are just calm to observing the behavior of China in the crypto world. It might be that China is using HK to cover up to key into cryptocurrency ecosystem.

death69

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Suit up, people, 'cause China's engaged in an epic duel of cryptographic checkers! First, they put the kibosh on Bitcoin and altcoin trading, then they give miners the boot, and suddenly, Hong Kong is a crypto paradise? Talk about a rollercoaster ride!

But here's a nugget of wisdom for you: I suspect China's just toying with us. They're like that nonchalant classmate who never cracked a book yet snagged top marks by sheer luck. They're keenly aware that crypto is the future, and they're vying for pole position.

So, what's our plan of action? Just recline and let China rule the crypto roost? Not on my watch! Time to mobilize, America! Let's demonstrate to China that we're unshakable, ready to tackle the crypto revolution head-on and catapult it to dizzying heights!

So, fellow crypto crusaders, if you're as exasperated as I am with China's mind-bending antics, then let's band together in this titanic tussle for crypto ascendancy. We might be short on answers, but we're armed with something far more powerful: a burning desire to innovate and an unyielding drive to succeed.

rat03gopoh

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Now suddenly they are allowing HK to go ahead with crypto and become a hub of Bitcoin as well as Altcoin economy. The biggest bank in HK a few days back declared that they will support crypto.

That would allow the crypto industry to be concentrated into smaller administrative areas. That way, it's easier to control and enforce. The rise of the illegal mining industry is an example of their failure to allow crypto business to expand to the mainland.
Yeah they basically play 2 cards. The crypto industry is too big to be idle while letting other big countries thrive on it, this really presents a tough choice.

suzanne5223

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Once said in one of my previous that people should never let the government's political games deceive them.
The reason for the Chinese ban on Bitcoin, trading, and mining is clear. They have the impression that BTC will be a hindrance to the success of their CDBC.
I'm happy they place all the banned on cryptocurrency before the creation of their CBDC so they won't put the blame on crypto just like the US SEC Chair Gary Gensler blames crypto for the Silicon Valley Bank collapse.

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Quote from: Yogee on April 20, 2023, 10:47:13 AM

It's needless to say that making HK a crypto hub could attract investors or market players from different countries but don't say they are not targeting those crypto market players from US that are most likely going to be unhappy with the SEC and the IRS. They are most likely eyeing companies like Microstrategy to expand in Hongkong.

If you look closely at some of decisions coming from China from trying to trade with Russia and then going back now to reduce their restrictions on crypto currency it actually mean one thing which a political tussle with US. The Chinese have seen how the world is turn towards crypto and the SEC having regulation problems with exchanges this is certainly a big move by the Chinese government. Imagine seeing the yuan trading pair with coins this could increase the spreading of yuan currency to other countries for businesses.

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

We all know China banned Bitcoin and altcoin trading first. Next they went ahead and banned miners. After that they rolled out their own digital Yuan. Which I am afraid did not succed as expected by CCP.

Why do you think China's CBDC didn't work out as expected? I think that the whole thing is still in a very early stage and that it will take some time for the digital yuan to be integrated into their financial system - but I have no doubt that they will manage to do it the way they want, because no one asks ordinary people for their opinion, nor whether they want something or not.

Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Now suddenly they are allowing HK to go ahead with crypto and become a hub of Bitcoin as well as Altcoin economy. The biggest bank in HK a few days back declared that they will support crypto.

It seems to me that there is a lot of mention of "crypto" and too little of "Bitcoin", and this only means that the "Chinese" are much more lenient towards what can be controlled. However, how many times in the last 5 years have I read that some city or country wants to become a "crypto hub", so many times I have convinced myself that wishes are one thing, and reality something completely different. I don't know who would even agree to go to HK and start a serious business while the sword of the communist party hangs over his head at all times.

Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it. Do remember this is how China became the 2nd larget economy in just 20 years.

We have already concluded countless times that China did not lose anything significant when it banned the trading and mining of crypto-currencies, the profit from it is almost insignificant if you take into account the size of their GDP.

elevates

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It's needless to say that making HK a crypto hub could attract investors or market players from different countries but don't say they are not targeting those crypto market players from US that are most likely going to be unhappy with the SEC and the IRS. They are most likely eyeing companies like Microstrategy to expand in Hongkong.

Great analysis! Considering your dissection on global politics. I do think China would eventually make HK a hub of cryptocurrency. Go back and recheck what China started with and what it did in 2021-22. They bluffed the US in 2000 and again they are bluffing using HK as an alternative option. They know they cannot lie straight on the face and therefore they have already given a full node with the biggest HK bank. Do look into the timeline you will find the answers.

Yogee

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 10:33:37 AM

Quote from: Yogee on April 20, 2023, 10:27:34 AM

Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

[....]
Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it.

It could be both. I believe their previous policies of cleaning up the mainland of crypto trading and mining is a step they made to eventually regulate it. I just don't know why it took them long to do that so maybe we could say there's real motive in making HK a crypto hub now. China taking advantage of the recent "unfriendly" moves towards crypto by the SEC and the 30% tax on mining is not that far fetched.

Nope! This is something different. It is not about the US in particular but I believe becoming a crypto hub of the world. So, this is what China does in simple words. The find a global issue. They create a solution and they make everyone dependent to their solution. Might sound crazy but it is actually correct if you check the history.

They are not targeting the USA. They are targeting every country that is against crypto. I am pretty sure they would succeed with thier new ideology.

It's needless to say that making HK a crypto hub could attract investors or market players from different countries but don't say they are not targeting those crypto market players from US that are most likely going to be unhappy with the SEC and the IRS. They are most likely eyeing companies like Microstrategy to expand in Hongkong.

elevates

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Quote from: Yogee on April 20, 2023, 10:27:34 AM

Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

[....]
Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it.

It could be both. I believe their previous policies of cleaning up the mainland of crypto trading and mining is a step they made to eventually regulate it. I just don't know why it took them long to do that so maybe we could say there's real motive in making HK a crypto hub now. China taking advantage of the recent "unfriendly" moves towards crypto by the SEC and the 30% tax on mining is not that far fetched.

Nope! This is something different. It is not about the US in particular but I believe they want to become a crypto hub of the world. What they have been doing in the past is similar to what they are doing now. This is what makes China so unreliable in simple words.

They are always looking for a global issue. Then, they would sell a solution and in the end they would make everyone dependent to their solution. Might sound crazy but it is actually correct if you check the history.

They are not targeting the USA. They are targeting every country that is against crypto. I am pretty sure they would succeed with thier new ideology.

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In the end, they licked their own saliva. Banning crypto at first and then banning it completely, but now giving way to crypto in some sectors.

If this is done, of course, Crypto is very useful and needed by China or the US.
Both countries are also focused on how to get huge profits by any means, including by accepting crypto indirectly.

Those who hate and even ban crypto, eventually need crypto as a platform that will provide more benefits.

All governments in the world have their own regulations, but it is possible that regulations are made to make crypto more subservient to the government.

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

[....]
Does that mean China is utilizing this negative situation in the US on crypto to its favour or they are just testing the possibilities in order to regulate it.

It could be both. I believe their previous policies of cleaning up the mainland of crypto trading and mining is a step they made to eventually regulate it. I just don't know why it took them long to do that so maybe we could say there's real motive in making HK a crypto hub now. China taking advantage of the recent "unfriendly" moves towards crypto by the SEC and the 30% tax on mining is not that far fetched.

MoonOfLife

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Quote from: Easteregg69 on April 20, 2023, 09:24:19 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 20, 2023, 09:22:35 AM

China is definitely playing double game! Not just on crypto but on many other aspects as well. Allowing Hong Kong to host crypto related business is a part of their ambitious gameplan. They are cashing in while US is showing signs of strengthening it's grips over crypto market. It's clear as broad daylight.

But I really don't understand US. They are allowing crypto companies to operate and allowing listing on stock exchanges. At the same time, giving enforcement agencies a freehand to act against them.

I definitely don't believe crypto will explode in China. Take it from a Tronholder.

BTW. It could be really large even it's microscopic.

It is difficult to know what will happen in the future. China is notoriously greedy and unpredictable, so I wouldn't be surprised if they one day reverse the bitcoin ban to accept bitcoin and encourage people to invest in it. What they're doing is trying to be the number one economy in the world so they'll do whatever works for them.

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Quote from: elevates on April 20, 2023, 08:58:32 AM

I mean what do you guys think is going around with this decision of China. As per my understanding HK has become a shadow control colony of China.

Exactly, That's what they also call it, "One Country, two System" I have no idea what promise did china made with UK about cryptocurrency (if you could shed some more light on it please) but i can see Hong Kong is the Special Administrative Region (SAR) of china which has some rules, which might give you an idea of two systems and one country statement. Following are some things from which HK is independent:

Quote

1. Hong Kong and China maintain a border. Chinese nationals require permits to visit Hong Kong.
2. Hong Kong dollar is official currency, The Chinese Reminibi is not accepted in Hong Kong, expect in a handful of stores. 3. The Hong Kong dollar is not legal tender in China.
4. Hong Kong has wholly separate legal system (common law system).
5. Hong Kong maintains its independent executive, legislative and judiciary powers. So for example any requests for arrest or extradition are carried out as a matter of international, not internal law.

Source
Point number 4 represents the main story behind your query like that's why China had made a separate SAR so that they can test out different possibilities of accepting cryptocurrency. As I don't think the Chinese can use cryptocurrency indirectly by privileging the legalization of crypto in HK, because both systems have different currencies and when you will change your Chinese Yuan to HK dollar then maybe you will be audited for its usage. Strict rules, As china is involved in "BRICS" and is considered as the main pillar among them so I don't think a country that supports innovation will be left behind even in cryptocurrency, in the war against the US dollar. So, It's in there favor to legalize crypto in HK and then encouraging their BRICS currency in crypto instead of US dollar.

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