Do you think shops should accept bitcoin? - page 4.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on May 27, 2020, 11:17:41 AM

Yes, that is a major issue but the chance of $10 becoming $20 is also high. Considering the price of Bitcoin from 2010 till date it has always gone up.

For example let's look into the price of Bitcoin on Bitcoin pizza day

2010: $0.0041
2011: $6.47
2012: $5.07
2013: $120.96
2014: $508.41
2015: $238.17
2016: $445.23
2017: $2,136.02
2018: $8,465.99
2019: $7,623.51
2020: $9,205.40

So, if a vendor accepts Bitcoin he/she will benefit and not incurr any loss.

This is a really bad of thinking about it, business owners aren't long-term investors, they are mostly focused on short term. Just look how covid-19 impacted small business, so many of them were forced to close because they can't afford a month or two of rent when they have no income. The same can easily happen with Bitcoin - imagine a business that mostly accepts Bitcoin and doesn't convert it, and one month Bitcoin crashes by 50% - now they are at a loss and will have to take loans or get closed, but it's still a risk because there's no guarantee that Bitcoin won't fall further.

If a shop wants to accept BTC, they need to be smart about it, have a solid strategy for converting to fiat, prepare for it legally, maintain proper security, etc.

bhadz

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

There's a solution to this, the automation to convert it into fiat/dollars as said by ranochigo. It's not that hard to understand the concept. The shops should be willing to accept it first and understand the basics of bitcoin so they are not walking blindly and just go with the go because bitcoin is the most popular cryptocurrency. They are accepting because they know that it's convenient for some people that owns it, not just go with the flow.

Sanugarid

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Quote from: seoincorporation on May 27, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

You mention the main risk about accepting coins, if the coin drops 30% then all your prices will drop that percent. And is a not cool loss at all.

For a seller it is not going to have a price drop on their product, obviously their prices will based on their local currency for example USD it will be a fixed value. With bitcoin payment added to their option, it is a risk to their fund, basically it is their total revenue at risk since the volatility is in the topic.

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 27, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

Some people think it's possible if the value of the things is based in dollars and paid in bitcoins, but the only way to make this with low risk is by selling the btc at the moment you get the payment... But even if we do that and the price goes up after we sell then it will represent a loss.

If you are thinking that accepting bitcoin as a payment now, then you're not thinking right. With so much volatility in bitcoin market right now you could be in a deep mud if you are willing to accept bitcoin as a payment for your store. And I don't think people who has bitcoin is willing to spend it because the blockchain is congested and spending/sending it would not be that worthy at all. We can always say that bitcoin isn't going below $2000 or $3000 but man it is bitcoin, if you see it skyrocketting in $20000 then expect it to not plummeting to $2000.

Becky666

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

As you talked about the seller will run at lose; you forget to mentioned the same as the seller will gain double if the price hit a higher node. This is simple, when the seller want to hold for a long-term then should be ready to wait for the appointed time to sell, but if not, the seller can exchange the $10 in Bitcoin to fiats immediately when the transaction is receive. If transaction confirmation is to be talk about, the seller should use LN for the transactions.

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: RapTarX on May 27, 2020, 11:24:43 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on May 27, 2020, 11:17:41 AM

So, if a vendor accepts Bitcoin he/she will benefit and not incurr any loss.

Vendor/Merchants have their maintenance cost; they can't sit on BTC and look for BTC price goes up once BTC goes down. It's very risky for any business to accept BTC without any middlemen like Bitpay. They could have lost a big of their profit; sometimes it can be their capital too. Unless BTC gets the main currency; 1 BTC = 1 BTC, the chances are too low to be used as direct payment option for most of the merchants.

Yes, that's right. Maybe this is one of the main reasons why a lot of merchants are still hesitant to accept bitcoin as payment method. The volatility is real and most of them can't afford to have that in their business, because they need to survive. So hopefully, in the coming years, we will see more of a stable price for bitcoin or maybe people will be more understanding regarding btc price volatility. Tongue

ShowOff

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 27, 2020, 10:16:52 AM

As a bitcoin lover I want to see accept bitcoin everywhere including local shops. But it's quite complicated for various reason. First thing is transaction speed, shopkeeper will have to wait for at least 1 confirmation before proceed, otherwise there is possible risk of double spend. I am not sure if SegWit would help to reduce confirmation duration.

Second concern is volatile, every shopkeeper won't bitcoin lover and likely they will not hold it. So they might loss due to volatility as well.

In my opinion, it seems that volatility are more appropriate as the main reason and transaction speed is the second. The reason is, the price of bitcoin will continue to fluctuate even though there are many transactions that are stuck and I dont think that transaction bottlenecks can affect the price of bitcoin. But on the contrary, when the price of bitcoin up, transactions will be slower and stagnant and this is a fact. Meanwhile, I think LN will also help bitcoin users to get transaction speeds and transaction costs low.

RapTarX

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on May 27, 2020, 11:17:41 AM

So, if a vendor accepts Bitcoin he/she will benefit and not incurr any loss.

Vendor/Merchants have their maintenance cost; they can't sit on BTC and look for BTC price goes up once BTC goes down. It's very risky for any business to accept BTC without any middlemen like Bitpay. They could have lost a big of their profit; sometimes it can be their capital too. Unless BTC gets the main currency; 1 BTC = 1 BTC, the chances are too low to be used as direct payment option for most of the merchants.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Yes but imagine everyone think in the same way. And over time this massive change with the previous year will be reduced. Because people aren't dumb. They will see what keeping digital gold means and they will reduce its value.

pakhitheboss

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

Yes, that is a major issue but the chance of $10 becoming $20 is also high. Considering the price of Bitcoin from 2010 till date it has always gone up.

For example let's look into the price of Bitcoin on Bitcoin pizza day

2010: $0.0041
2011: $6.47
2012: $5.07
2013: $120.96
2014: $508.41
2015: $238.17
2016: $445.23
2017: $2,136.02
2018: $8,465.99
2019: $7,623.51
2020: $9,205.40

So, if a vendor accepts Bitcoin he/she will benefit and not incurr any loss.

bittraffic

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Its up to the shop owner.

They are businessmen, obviously these guys wants to profit. So if I am like them as businessman and would like to own BTC, I would sell their products with stablecoin like USDT or whichever stablecoin as long as its on the chain. And then I can trade it to BTC whenever the price of BTC drops.

ChiBitCTy

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I think it all depends on the shop owner themselves. If they know nothing about bitcoin at all, then I'd probably argue against it until they get some education under their belt. You need to understand how things work first before ever buying or accepting bitcoin. Once they know how it works, then it can either act as payment that can be cashed out right away (via an exchange) or a payment with an investment attached that you hold.

Ucy

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Fiat goes up and down too if put it side by side with something more stable.
If you could make the price of Bitcoin/crypto fluctuate moderately and consistently without losing its deflationary property, it could compete very well with fiat in that area.

Skieleton

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There are a number of opinions that companies should not accept Bitcoin due to high price and fee volatility. It is certain, however, that as the Bitcoin network develops, this way of thinking will change in the future and there will be more and more companies that accept Bitcoin.

The Cryptovator

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As a bitcoin lover I want to see accept bitcoin everywhere including local shops. But it's quite complicated for various reason. First thing is transaction speed, shopkeeper will have to wait for at least 1 confirmation before proceed, otherwise there is possible risk of double spend. I am not sure if SegWit would help to reduce confirmation duration.

Second concern is volatile, every shopkeeper won't bitcoin lover and likely they will not hold it. So they might loss due to volatility as well. There should be something to convert your bitcoin in fiat currency, like USDT. It's possible when governments allow bitcoin and they will have native digital currency. So bitcoin users easily convert their assets to local digital fiat and spend it. Otherwise there isn't very easy method to use direct bitcoin into local shops. A local digital stable crypto-currency would solve both issue regarding transaction speed and volatility.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: seoincorporation on May 27, 2020, 08:13:27 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

You mention the main risk about accepting coins, if the coin drops 30% then all your prices will drop that percent. And is a not cool loss at all.

Some people think it's possible if the value of the things is based in dollars and paid in bitcoins, but the only way to make this with low risk is by selling the btc at the moment you get the payment... But even if we do that and the price goes up after we sell then it will represent a loss.

It won't represent a loss. It would represent a profit IF you had keep them, but not a loss if you sold them. You wanted x dollars, what if the thing you sold now costs x + 100, it really doesn't matter.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

No. As you already mention that are so risky. I saw, some days ago, bitcoin price droped around 11% within a day. So how could i suggest accept bitcoin for shopkeepers!? Even Buyer(before purchase anything) & seller both can face difficulty as btc price could drop anytime.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2020, 07:56:29 AM

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

You mention the main risk about accepting coins, if the coin drops 30% then all your prices will drop that percent. And is a not cool loss at all.

Some people think it's possible if the value of the things is based in dollars and paid in bitcoins, but the only way to make this with low risk is by selling the btc at the moment you get the payment... But even if we do that and the price goes up after we sell then it will represent a loss.

ranochigo

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Bitpay used to be able to offer instant exchange to fiat immediately after a transaction and this helped to eliminate that issue. It's true that Bitcoin can lose loads of value in a matter of hours but the same goes the other way. IMO, for most online stores, this may not be that big of an issue. Merchants has to pay the payment processors a cut from their profits either ways. If Bitcoin can provide faster settlement while having lower risk and fees, then it could be worth it.

For physical stores, it's not really favourable.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Bitcoin price goes up and down all the time. If someone buys something costing 10$, the next day it may cost less or more. So it's a risk for the seller.

Topic: Do you think shops should accept bitcoin? - page 4. (Read 526 times)