Do you think voting for Bitcoin to become a legal tender was the plan?

franky1

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Quote from: bitterguy28 on December 05, 2023, 10:53:06 PM

Quote from: ZAINmalik75 on December 05, 2023, 03:43:38 PM

Making BTC a legal tender does not make it centralized, because it will not be controlled by the government. And that's a good thing, but they can keep a close eye on every individual and to do that there is no need for them to adopt it as legal tender.

That is the valid argument here , OP seems looking at this to be a government controlled once become a legal tender but its not because they will only allow this to circulate but not to be on their Holding so it will never be centralization .

when bitcoin became defined as legal currency instead of private property. services that buy/sell coin were no longer goods services. but instead money service businesses. and yes government regulation was able to step in by defining it as a currency instead of private property

the peer-to-peer distributed ledger network of coin ownership proof cant be controlled..
BUT the sercives and businesses operating at the gateways to the network that do financial business can be controlled

before bitcoin was legally a currency. it was treated like private property, such as trading cards and antiques private trade

bitterguy28

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Quote from: ZAINmalik75 on December 05, 2023, 03:43:38 PM

Making BTC a legal tender does not make it centralized, because it will not be controlled by the government. And that's a good thing, but they can keep a close eye on every individual and to do that there is no need for them to adopt it as legal tender.

That is the valid argument here , OP seems looking at this to be a government controlled once become a legal tender but its not because they will only allow this to circulate but not to be on their Holding so it will never be centralization .

I am also wishing that one day each government will release statement like what EL Salvador does, though to not force the people to use it but to trust it instead.

We are all rooting for adoption to be made at least of our own government lucky to those who have their government having good treatment to Bitcoin because they are the one that will have the potential of having it legal tender.

Uruhara

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

Well, sometimes I look at the creation, price history and even read the white paper of Bitcoin and I would imagine what Satoshi wanted about Bitcoin and if he feels happy with what is going on now.

I don't think Satoshi would have want Bitcoin to even become a legal tender. Satoshi said Bitcoin is for the common man and woman to accept in payment on agreement, that's a simple p2p. He never wanted authorities or government to come together in agreement for Bitcoiners to use Bitcoin. He wanted every man to do his thing in a decentralized manner. But I guess that Bitcoin as a legal tender will even make the government to put a very close eye on how every individual is spending their Bitcoin which was not meant to be so.

You can add what you think.

I think Satoshi was just disappointed with the current financial system which is very centralized. And Bitcoin was created to compensate and provide options for people who want to minimize the use of centralized systems. Making bitcoin a legal tender may not be the plan. But making bitcoin acceptable to everyone is clearly the plan. Decentralization is the main goal. Because currently it seems like everything is controlled too much by the government. And the reality is that fiat experiences a decline in value too easily and is too easily affected by inflation. So people need other options to save asset value temporarily. Well, some citizens in one country have done it. When their fiat is affected by inflation. They are flocking to buy bitcoin to protect their assets to avoid high inflation in their country. And yeah it works fine. But once a Bitcoin spot ETF is approved there will be more institutions coming in and more and more of the bitcoin supply will be controlled by them. but the positive is that a larger marketcap will probably make bitcoin volatility less in the future.

Mrbluntzy

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 05, 2023, 07:47:40 PM

Did Satoshi want Bitcoin to be strongly associated with crime?

And the ideal of p2p economy breaks down when you remember that middle-size and big businesses are large entities that are easy to prosecute when they do something like receiving an illegal payment method. National economy is not just street vendors who sell hotdogs and lemonade.

Satoshi would not want bitcoin to be associated with crime, he would not also want bitcoin to be centralized. I am afraid that time might come when the technology will become centralized in the aspect of government wanting to monitor how everyone is using the coin to do any business or transaction. What if the government begin to work with Bitcoin miners or they secretly set of their own mining riggs just to make sure they are monitoring what is happening in the Bitcoin blockchain network? Or they decid to be working hand to hand with all the Bitcoin exchange and get to know all information of any one that is using the exchange? It will not make sense if after we make any Bitcoin transaction, some government agency will call us on phone to ask whom we sent the coins to.

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[quote author=Upgrade00
Government's don't need to make it a legal tender to do that. Taxing bitcoins already means that the government is involved in how you spend your coins and with the help of centralized exchanges they can track and sort addresses and transactions.[/quote]

At same time they are fighting bitcoin mixer meanwhile mixers is one service in the bitcoin space that is helping to add more privacy to bitcoin. Some people said bitcoin is not totally decentralized and I fear that when all the service that adds more privacy to bitcoin is removed, bitcoin will become more centralized and it's not safe again because the coin was supposed to be decentralized and not monitored or regulated by the government.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

I don't think Satoshi would have want Bitcoin to even become a legal tender.

Bitcoin can't be in an unregulated state indefinitely. There's really only 2 options - either the government sets the rules how people use it or the government bans its use and Bitcoin becomes criminal darknet money. Did Satoshi want Bitcoin to be strongly associated with crime?

And the ideal of p2p economy breaks down when you remember that middle-size and big businesses are large entities that are easy to prosecute when they do something like receiving an illegal payment method. National economy is not just street vendors who sell hotdogs and lemonade.

komisariatku

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

You can add what you think.

Satoshi wanted a currency that was completely held by the community and not influenced by government interests and control. Satoshi wanted to eliminate banks that caused a lot of losses because the government could control and raise interest rates at will.

Bitcoin exists as a form of freedom. Freedom to store and use bitcoins without anyone being able to freeze our bitcoin holdings. Because of the pure decentralization concept that bitcoin has, the government will not make it the main currency because the government does not get any profit from bitcoin, what the government can do is collect taxes on bitcoin but cannot control it.

thecodebear

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

Well, sometimes I look at the creation, price history and even read the white paper of Bitcoin and I would imagine what Satoshi wanted about Bitcoin and if he feels happy with what is going on now.

I don't think Satoshi would have want Bitcoin to even become a legal tender. Satoshi said Bitcoin is for the common man and woman to accept in payment on agreement, that's a simple p2p. He never wanted authorities or government to come together in agreement for Bitcoiners to use Bitcoin. He wanted every man to do his thing in a decentralized manner. But I guess that Bitcoin as a legal tender will even make the government to put a very close eye on how every individual is spending their Bitcoin which was not meant to be so.

You can add what you think.

It doesn't matter. Bitcoin being legal tender or not being legal tender doesn't affect what Bitcoin is. If a govt adds Bitcoin as legal tender, like how El Salvador did, that doesn't mean that govt has any sort of control over Bitcoin. These are decisions happening in the external world. They don't affect what Bitcoin is, it would just allow much greater participation in Bitcoin, which is a good thing. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that allows self-banking. No matter who calls it legal tender, no matter who holds it in ETFs or other investment vehicles, no matter who holds it as a store of value or spends it daily, or whatever, doesn't change one bit what Bitcoin is.

I see people on here complain if it becomes legal tender or complain that rich people and corporations own it or complain that people are going to hold it as investments instead of use as money. Why would anyone care about that??? It's a currency that anyone can use in whatever way they see fit for themslelves. There is literally nothing wrong with any of these things, including if nations eventually decide to promote Bitcoin to legal tender.

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

Well, sometimes I look at the creation, price history and even read the white paper of Bitcoin and I would imagine what Satoshi wanted about Bitcoin and if he feels happy with what is going on now.

Do you mean you have really finished reading the white paper? If yes, then I will really applaud you for that, as I have not had the courage to even start. All I do is study any quoted part I come across online or on a billboard, and I gather my knowledge from other sources.

Things are developed for some purpose, and they are later used for that purpose, and some other better uses are also being discovered from them, which makes the discovery even more interesting.

Some parts of me do feel like there are still many things that can still be achieved with bitcoin that have not yet been unlocked, and bitcoin being recognised as a legal tender is also part of the vision when you want something to be used for seamless transactions. I know the creator definitely saw that coming.

KennyR

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Satoshi innovated bitcoin for a reason, but the people started using it for the good as well as bad. The key element is to eliminate the third party, but now we're heading into the hands of third parties. This is by situation and on the other side the growth have made people consider it an investment than a currency that hold value. Satoshi innovated the technology and the Bitcoin Pizza Guy Laszlo Hanyecz gave value to it. This is the point from which it started its next level of usage, even Satoshi couldn't have expected it.

passwordnow

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Things change.
People change.
Governments change.
I think that even satoshi wouldn't like this situation for Bitcoin that it is being adopted by a country as their legal tender, he might just end up liking it because it's still not going to change the fact that it's being used by commoners like you and me. The good thing there is that it is the government that has adopted it and even they do so, they still don't have control over the network and they'll just simply become users like you and me.

But the mystery here is that, we will never know his true reaction on this one. And everything will all be speculations until the time that we come to the point that he/she might still be alive and exposed to the public but I doubt that it'll happen.

Kelvinid

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Quote from: nakamura12 on December 05, 2023, 05:09:20 PM

One of the reason why Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin is to have a currency where no third party, group or a person behind the currency like most of the fiat money. I am sure you know about fiat money that is regulated by the government whereas Bitcoin doesn't have at all and also free from inflation. I also think that Satoshi Nakamoto think that Bitcoin will/may become a legal tender and it did happen which is done by El Salvador.

It definitely depends on the support and adoption of the country where as El Salvador had opened the door for Bitcoin and officially became a legal tender of their country. But on the other side of the world, many were against this and even banned the use/trade of crypto like China before. It could be a reason why many people still do not see that Bitcoins can be a legal currency soon but will just remain as an investment.

nakamura12

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One of the reason why Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin is to have a currency where no third party, group or a person behind the currency like most of the fiat money. I am sure you know about fiat money that is regulated by the government whereas Bitcoin doesn't have at all and also free from inflation. I also think that Satoshi Nakamoto think that Bitcoin will/may become a legal tender and it did happen which is done by El Salvador.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on December 05, 2023, 04:45:23 PM

It was design to a payment scheme, borderless. I think that is the main plan of Satoshi. However, things have change since them, we have Mt. Gox in the beginning or even the the first exchange "New Liberty Standard".

So there are a lot of transformation along the way that maybe Satoshi didn't imagine in the beginning. Now we have a country that uses it as a legal tender. However, I don't think that Bitcoin will be the legal standard around the world though, we still have the traditional fiat like USD and others as the world currency.

High likely that Satoshi's vision has been surpassed already. This currency has achieved a lot already.
And now, some countries are even considering it as their legal tender.
The payment scheme has been achieved and it is becoming mainstream. More and more people are acknowledging its capability in this sector.
The adoption that Satoshi wanted I guess has been achieved long time ago. And still growing stronger.

LDL

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

Well, sometimes I look at the creation, price history and even read the white paper of Bitcoin and I would imagine what Satoshi wanted about Bitcoin and if he feels happy with what is going on now.

I don't think Satoshi would have want Bitcoin to even become a legal tender. Satoshi said Bitcoin is for the common man and woman to accept in payment on agreement, that's a simple p2p. He never wanted authorities or government to come together in agreement for Bitcoiners to use Bitcoin. He wanted every man to do his thing in a decentralized manner. But I guess that Bitcoin as a legal tender will even make the government to put a very close eye on how every individual is spending their Bitcoin which was not meant to be so.

You can add what you think.

The way in which Satoshi Nakamato invented Bitcoin and wanted to use Bitcoin was correct from his point of view. But today's Bitcoin usage and payment system is much more flexible than just Satoshi Nakamato thought.
Currently, a country's government and central bank play a major role in Bitcoin legal tender, as does the role it plays in the trust and confidence of the people of that country. If people don't care about Bitcoin acceptance then Bitcoin will never get legality in that country.
Again, it is not possible to give legal tender of bitcoin only if the public imposes importance because the government and the central bank must have positive feedback. For example in my country Bangladesh people express confidence in Bitcoin but only because of the hostile attitude of the government and central bank towards Bitcoin Bitcoin is never getting legal in our country.

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I think satoshi figured there was a chance it could become legal currency someday, but I think he was off about how fast it would begin happening. He even had lofty price expectations but if you asked him I’m sure he didn’t think we’d hit $50,000 per coin for many years yet, giving regular folks more time to stack before governments.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: Mrbluntzy on December 05, 2023, 12:55:13 PM

Well, sometimes I look at the creation, price history and even read the white paper of Bitcoin and I would imagine what Satoshi wanted about Bitcoin and if he feels happy with what is going on now.

I don't think Satoshi would have want Bitcoin to even become a legal tender. Satoshi said Bitcoin is for the common man and woman to accept in payment on agreement, that's a simple p2p. He never wanted authorities or government to come together in agreement for Bitcoiners to use Bitcoin. He wanted every man to do his thing in a decentralized manner. But I guess that Bitcoin as a legal tender will even make the government to put a very close eye on how every individual is spending their Bitcoin which was not meant to be so.

You can add what you think.

It was design to a payment scheme, borderless. I think that is the main plan of Satoshi. However, things have change since them, we have Mt. Gox in the beginning or even the the first exchange "New Liberty Standard".

So there are a lot of transformation along the way that maybe Satoshi didn't imagine in the beginning. Now we have a country that uses it as a legal tender. However, I don't think that Bitcoin will be the legal standard around the world though, we still have the traditional fiat like USD and others as the world currency.

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Satoshi wanted a peer to peer electronic cash system. That's what exists. You can send any amount to any place with indifferent network fees. There are no limitations on its accessibility. There are no limits in where Bitcoin can be sent. The job has been done.

Whether Bitcoin was intended to work as a payment system is another topic. Electronic cash in comparison to a payment system are two different things, even though they sound the same. The difference is that a payment system has an element of scalability. And a focus on growing scalability...it needs to in order to stay competitive. Electronic cash doesn't need to do that, it just needs to serve a similar purpose to cash, and fulfil that purpose in a long-term and stable way, as Bitcoin has since its beginning.

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How do you know what he ever wanted and what he never wanted? You should say your opinion and make it obvious that it’s only but an opinion. We know for a fact that he definitely wouldn’t appreciate anything that centralizes Bitcoin because he built this to be Decentralized. The whitepaper even mentioned how the traditional system works, which means he knew what was going on with the traditional system, but still found the need to create Bitcoin. I think he is happy and proud that what he created is booming and has gained widespread attention.

Kasabus

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The only reason why Satoshi made bitcoin is to have a real decentralized currency that can be accepted by the government, and that can be used as a daily payment system and act as a reserved currency from fiat. Being legalized does not actually mean that it will be a legal tender soon, of course fiat or dollar will definitely be the legal tender for life, or it could be bitcoin we don't know actually.

However, the term legalized could also mean that it will centralized soon and that taxing can be always possible. When that happens, I'm sure that's not the one that Satoshi is trying to appeal about bitcoin. Being controlled by the government is not actually what Satoshi wants.

Topic: Do you think voting for Bitcoin to become a legal tender was the plan? (Read 134 times)