Do you trust the miners? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

S4VV4S

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Quote from: gentlemand on September 01, 2015, 10:41:55 AM

Not really. Quite a few of the biggies who've been interviewed have stated they're purely in it for the dollars. They'll go with what'll load them up in the short term. Long term whatever they choose might be fatal.

Can you blame them?
They have invested a large amount of money in a platform that generates money.
Do you see where I am getting at?

Kprawn

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If I had to decide between entities, when it comes to trust... I would choose the miners. You know their primary motive to mine, is to make a profit. They will push hard for changes to increase their profits.. so they

are predictable. The developers have many different factors : Ego / Money / Pride / Self interest ....You never know what their real motives are, when they submit changes.

The other services are also profit driven, but they might support changes or be against it for their own hidden agenda... So I will go with the predictable option. Miners will never do something to kill the cow.

Without the cow, there is no milk.... Wink

xhoneyael

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I will trust Bitcoin but not the Miner

johnyj

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Unless the PoW mining changes, the miners are always what secures the network, and more than 50% of hash power could always harm the network, that is a fact, trust them or not

frontdenplastic

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You need to make sure that the system is designed in such a way that miners' interests are aligned with the interests of most users'. This means that they should be able to compete with one another to confirm as many transactions as practically possible and they should be adequately rewarded for their efforts. If you try to change the rules to force miners to do more work for less then you might jeopardize this alignment.

Ninjaskills

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yes im trust

maokoto

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✪ NEXCHANGE | BTC, LTC, ETH & DOGE ✪

Well theoretically, I tend to think a miner will protect Bitcoin as their interest is in it. But if we think deeper, it would be interested only in Bitcoin price, not in Bitcoin gaining adoption or being more fast or secure. Normally all these things go hand in hand, but perhaps there might be a scenario in which they weren't

RGBKey

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Quote from: worhiper_-_ on September 01, 2015, 06:03:13 PM

Miners caring for profit doesn't mean they'd want bitcoin failing. To say the least, I think they have at least some common interest with the rest. I'm not saying that they should be 100% trusted about taking important decisions.

Exactly, they don't want bitcoin to die because that means most of them would never see a return on their investment of hardware. They also want to make as much of a profit as possible though.

worhiper_-_

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Miners caring for profit doesn't mean they'd want bitcoin failing. To say the least, I think they have at least some common interest with the rest. I'm not saying that they should be 100% trusted about taking important decisions.

ashour

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Quote from: RGBKey on September 01, 2015, 05:35:31 PM

I'm not sure I trust the miners to make decisions that will benefit the entire bitcoin community instead of just the miners right now.

Exactly, the miners only care about their profits. They don't actually care about bitcoin or the bitcoin community. The only thing they want is to mine bitcoin and sell them for a profit, nothing else.

RGBKey

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I'm not sure I trust the miners to make decisions that will benefit the entire bitcoin community instead of just the miners right now.

ashour

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Quote from: gentlemand on September 01, 2015, 04:58:19 PM

Quote from: ashour on September 01, 2015, 04:42:23 PM

The miner's goal is to mine bitcoin and sell it for profit. So I agree, they only are there to make profits and messing with the bitcoin protocol would mean 0 profit for them. So I don't think that miners will mess with the bitcoin network at all actually they would be the one that would benefit if everything went smooth for bitcoin.

Agreed, but I don't think many are looking 10-20 years down the line. They're burning money and hardware now. If there's a move that secures bigger profit now at the expense of future strife then their bottom line is going to be drawn to that.

Most mining operations will focus temporarily profit, so they will focus to make as much and as fast profit while they can. In 10 to 20 years the mining difficulty will be high and probably most mining operations will just shut down and the biggest and most advances mining operations will take their place.

pandacon8

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If you dont trust the miners theres no point in using bitcoin they are required

gentlemand

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Quote from: ashour on September 01, 2015, 04:42:23 PM

The miner's goal is to mine bitcoin and sell it for profit. So I agree, they only are there to make profits and messing with the bitcoin protocol would mean 0 profit for them. So I don't think that miners will mess with the bitcoin network at all actually they would be the one that would benefit if everything went smooth for bitcoin.

Agreed, but I don't think many are looking 10-20 years down the line. They're burning money and hardware now. If there's a move that secures bigger profit now at the expense of future strife then their bottom line is going to be drawn to that.

TransaDox

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Quote from: unamis76 on September 01, 2015, 02:32:44 PM

I don't mind trusting miners so far... I trust they'll mine my transactions and not simply ignore/blacklist them for whatever reason. I trust them this far, as I don't have powerful mining equipment neither do I have ways to control a big percentage of hashpower.

That being said, nobody needs to trust miners... Let's just make blocks scale according to the current network status.

I won't be happy until every client is a miner and there is no super hero group that have to be relied upon.

ashour

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Quote from: gentlemand on September 01, 2015, 10:41:55 AM

Not really. Quite a few of the biggies who've been interviewed have stated they're purely in it for the dollars. They'll go with what'll load them up in the short term. Long term whatever they choose might be fatal.

The miner's goal is to mine bitcoin and sell it for profit. So I agree, they only are there to make profits and messing with the bitcoin protocol would mean 0 profit for them. So I don't think that miners will mess with the bitcoin network at all actually they would be the one that would benefit if everything went smooth for bitcoin.

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: unamis76 on September 01, 2015, 02:32:44 PM

I don't mind trusting miners so far... I trust they'll mine my transactions and not simply ignore/blacklist them for whatever reason. I trust them this far, as I don't have powerful mining equipment neither do I have ways to control a big percentage of hashpower.

That being said, nobody needs to trust miners... Let's just make blocks scale according to the current network status.

Exactly. We don't need a system that needs to trust someone in order to work. Aren't we called decentralized, trust less system? So we need a change that will not depend upon anybody, but work depending on the rules we set, clear rules, just like until now.

The more I read about BIP100, the more I don't like it. Giving miners such power would be wrong, and if we do it, there will be a betrayal of that trust sometimes in the future. We need a better solution than this.

unamis76

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I don't mind trusting miners so far... I trust they'll mine my transactions and not simply ignore/blacklist them for whatever reason. I trust them this far, as I don't have powerful mining equipment neither do I have ways to control a big percentage of hashpower.

That being said, nobody needs to trust miners... Let's just make blocks scale according to the current network status.

Amph

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they are purely for the profit, especially chinese, they even stated so, as long as there is profit to be made from something, you can't trust no one

but you can't do shit, because they are the backbone of bitcoin

ebliever

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It's Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" in action. It's not that we trust miners to be charitable and altruistic and to be nice to us out of perfect love. Bitcoin works because Satoshi created a system in which the economic self-interest of the miners acts to make bitcoin transactions and ownership secure for all of us.

So long as the design of bitcoin retains that function, we can trust the miners. The danger is that someone introduces changes to how bitcoin works that breaks this alignment between miner self-interest and the security of bitcoin for everyone. That's why we need to have copious amounts of debate to slowly - not quickly - build a concensus when changes need to be made.

Topic: Do you trust the miners? - page 4. (Read 3610 times)