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Topic: Do you trust yourself to manage your own private keys? - page 7. (Read 6905 times)

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Quote
if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin. On the contrary, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either.
Bitcoin, in my opinion, already act like bank, so I wouldn't need another "bank" for bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005
★Nitrogensports.eu★
Op, don't take power of choice from peoples hands. They have right to choose their wallets. So You like to have your coins stored online, it is your way of doing things that is fine. I personally never trust anything cloud related to keep my stuff. I prefer local wallets. And I am sure that this is the most safe way of keeping your bitcoins.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Yoohoo
Well, bitcoin online wallets and bank are not same - btc wallets are not a real bank and they don't get an audit like a bank.

So, I'd prefer and trust myself to store my private key by myself. That's why I started using bitcoin!
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
I think this is one of the reasons why I started using Bitcoin. The freedom to control your own money and not having to rely on any centralized organization to do it for you.

You bring up a valid argument, because there are people who are not savy enough to do this, but they do have the option to use these online wallet providers, with full control over your keys.

I just cannot see why people cannot just print out a paper wallet and laminate and store it in a safe place? This takes 10 minutes.  Shocked

I still choose to have this freedom and control over my own financial destiny.  Grin 
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501
I go back and forth.  I use paper wallets but always get nervous that everything worked.  And I can't test the private key without defeating the purpose of cold storage.  But let's say coinbase gets hacked and you loose all your coins.  On the other hand at this point in the game if a exchange like that goes down the price is going to plummet and your coins will be near worthless anyway.

It isn't that hard to properly secure your keys with paperwallets or hardware wallets but you do bring up a good point concerning doubt. The average user won't feel confident enough to secure their bitcoins themselves unless we improve the usability experience a bit.

The security is the major issues of Bitcoin usage, just heard coinapult hot wallet got hacked and lost 150BTC, so if you own a great amount of Bicoin, you'd better hiring professional Bitcoiner to manage your private key.

No, you should hire a security expert to help you secure your private keys yourself. I have one of these coming in the mail  -
https://mycelium.com/entropy

As of which I plan to have monthly meetings where I allow anyone in the public free of charge to print off a multi-sig paper wallet on a dumb printer with wifi disabled and without me viewing their private keys. I will continue to give out free advice and consult people on best security practices for the good of the ecosystem.

hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
The security is the major issues of Bitcoin usage, just heard coinapult hot wallet got hacked and lost 150BTC, so if you own a great amount of Bicoin, you'd better hiring professional Bitcoiner to manage your private key.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4801
Criticism often comes to online wallet providers (Xapo, Coinbase, etc) saying, if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin.

That's not criticism, that's just the reality of the situation.

On the contrary, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either.

How is that "on the contrary"?  You're saying the same thing about both. I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

The only possible difference, traditional banks have been around longer, and more people trust them.

That's the "only possible difference"?  Really?  There aren't any other possible differences?

Do they both operate under the same government regulations?
Are your deposits insured in both by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (or some other equivalent insurance underwriter)?
Are they both held to the same financial audits?

Many bitcoin users who criticize bitcoin vaults, store their cash in a traditional bank.

Some do.  Some don't.  So what?

Hypothetically, if Bank of America, or Barclay, or DeustcheBank announced they've invested millions into a highly protected, advanced, security architecture, would you trust someone to store it then?

That would depend on the specifics of the situation, but probably not.

Are critics right to say, don't use an online wallet provider, it's not safe?

Yes.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
I go back and forth.  I use paper wallets but always get nervous that everything worked.  And I can't test the private key without defeating the purpose of cold storage.  But let's say coinbase gets hacked and you loose all your coins.  On the other hand at this point in the game if a exchange like that goes down the price is going to plummet and your coins will be near worthless anyway.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
These online wallets need to be secure and safe for usage because very few people, when more adoption comes, will be able to nor have the expertise to hold their own keys. Lining up their 2FA should be enough secondary encryption that can and should be trusted to keep their funds secure. Just like in any freer market, reputation and credibility should be the biggest sought after virtues of any online exchange or wallet. Staying bug free in regards to security seems to be pretty good for now in the likes of Coinbase, Blockchain, Xapo and their business models seem to have been set up to prevent inside jobs from heists. The user just needs to make sure they don't fall for phishing operations. Kinda like you don't just get a voicemail from some outfit and call back with your social security or account numbers.

But those online companies have GOT to get their acts together.

This explains how people could bypass 2FA with those sites using AUTHY up until about a month ago: http://sakurity.com/blog/2015/03/15/authy_bypass.html/

And then there's always social engineering (people calling up and saying they lost their phone):

http://www.theverge.com/a/anatomy-of-a-hack
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501
I had not considered state theft. Various states have deducted money from people's bank balances when they were in trouble. The same thing could happen to Bitcoin banks and ironically Bitcoin was partially invented to get around that problem.

The risks extend beyond asset forfeiture, lawsuits supported by unfair legislation, and frozen accounts. States have institutionalized theft with taxes. In the USA you will have 15-40% stolen from any bitcoin gains you make. What's even more depressing about this is the fact that a significant chunk of those stolen funds are supporting unethical and corrupt policies.
sr. member
Activity: 348
Merit: 250
Even the most trustworthy, secured , and insured bitcoin "banks" are vulnerable to state theft. We need to improve usability but should do so with hardware wallets and not by trusting central parties or investing in speculative bitcoin ETF's and derivatives.

Secure your bitcoins yourself securely:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/options-for-securing-your-bitcoin-wallet-858604

Do not trust your private keys with anyone.

I had not considered state theft. Various states have deducted money from people's bank balances when they were in trouble. The same thing could happen to Bitcoin banks and ironically Bitcoin was partially invented to get around that problem.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501
Even the most trustworthy, secured , and insured bitcoin "banks" are vulnerable to state theft. We need to improve usability but should do so with hardware wallets and not by trusting central parties or investing in speculative bitcoin ETF's and derivatives.

Secure your bitcoins yourself securely:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/options-for-securing-your-bitcoin-wallet-858604

Do not trust your private keys with anyone.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
These online wallets need to be secure and safe for usage because very few people, when more adoption comes, will be able to nor have the expertise to hold their own keys. Lining up their 2FA should be enough secondary encryption that can and should be trusted to keep their funds secure. Just like in any freer market, reputation and credibility should be the biggest sought after virtues of any online exchange or wallet. Staying bug free in regards to security seems to be pretty good for now in the likes of Coinbase, Blockchain, Xapo and their business models seem to have been set up to prevent inside jobs from heists. The user just needs to make sure they don't fall for phishing operations. Kinda like you don't just get a voicemail from some outfit and call back with your social security or account numbers.
sr. member
Activity: 348
Merit: 250
Yes I do. If unexperienced people start to trust bitcoin banks etc and huge amounts of btc are kept in those banks bitcoin will not be longer decentralised...

I'd trust myself far more than a Bitcoin bank. I don't care how secure they claim to be, they can always say they were hacked and all your money's gone. If they start storing more coins than the big exchanges they will be heavily targeted by the same hackers responsible for hacking the big exchanges.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
I don't trust myself because I'm not a encrypt seurcity expert, even the biggest could be hacked, I do can't trust myself, besides,  I'm an arts students, not a computer genius.
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
Criticism often comes to online wallet providers (Xapo, Coinbase, etc) saying, if you don't own your private keys, you don't actually own your bitcoin. On the contrary, if your cash is in a traditional bank, you don't really own your cash either.

Both are true.

It is naive to believe that banks holding fiat are completely safe. If a bank in the U.S. fails (and they frequently do), a person that has deposited more that $250,000 in that bank will lose some of their money.

Ask the people that deposited money in banks in Iceland and Cyprus about how safe banks are.

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
If I can't trust myself who else could I trust?

You can't trust today in any third part 100% and less in the bitcoin industry
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Yes I do. If unexperienced people start to trust bitcoin banks etc and huge amounts of btc are kept in those banks bitcoin will not be longer decentralised...
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1001
I keep my keys locked away at a secure place so that if comes the time I need to recover I will recover what is needed. Or generally use paper wallets to use as offline storage for coins and keep my keys in a safe and secure place.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
I trust myself with the keys more than any other online wallet. I still use online wallets because they are convenient and I do not have much coins with them.

Traditional banks are brick and mortar banks. They are just dwon the road and I know I will have support when something is wrong. Online wallets with support tickets are a different story. My deposits are safer with tradition banks than online wallet services.
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