Topic: Do you want to pay the fee? - page 4. (Read 6894 times)

  so I can't put 0.0005 in the fees when I transfer 5 btc's into a new paper wallet?

The blockchain *did* have super low fees for transferring money, but those fees were denominated in Bitcoin, which, as you may recall, has gone up a hundredfold in the last couple of years. It isn't such a very small tx fee any more.  This is one of the reasons I'm anticipating a change in tx fees with the next soft fork.

Other than that we're having some miscommunication about the way we're using words like "bitcoin" (a unit of monetary value) and "coins" (single txouts of whatever value that go into a transaction).  

Most people have individual "coins" or technically "unspent txouts" in their wallet of denominations of 0.1 Bitcoin or less.  "Bitcoin" is a measure of actual value and "coins" is the number of spendable txouts that comprise that value.  

If you have a wallet with 28 bitcoins, but you got that amount in a single lump (ie, you have a single "coin" with a denomination of 28 bitcoins) then your transaction to transfer 5 bitcoin to another wallet will have tx fees of about eight to 24 cents depending on a few things.   On the other hand if that 28 bitcoin value is an accumulation of "coins" worth 0.01 bitcoin each, then you'll make a transaction of 500 inputs to transfer 5 Bitcoins of value, and it'll cost you something like $40 in tx fees.  

CORRECTION ADDED LATER: I WAS WRONG WHEN I SAID THIS AND EXPLAINED MYSELF LATER; SEE PAGE 4 OF THIS TOPIC FOR A CORRECTION TO MY MISTAKEN EXPLANATION.  THE ACTUAL TX FEES ARE 'FREE' AND 'UNDER $2' RESPECTIVELY. --CRYDDIT

You confuse "not ASAP" and "never for all intensive purposes"

  WHAT!? I thought blockchain had super low fees for transferring money?  So if I went on blockchain right now and transferred a paper wallet with 28 bitcoins and I wanted to put 5 bitcoins each per 1 paper wallet I would be nailed with a $30 fee?? I was watching max keiser the other day and he said it was like 80 cents to send a million dollars? -__- wth? or is this fee just for people who use wallet clients installed rather then the actual blockchain website itself??

EDIT; I WAS WRONG WHEN I POSTED THIS AND OVERSTATED FEES BY APPROXIMATELY A FACTOR OF ONE HUNDRED.  I WAS OVERSTATING THEM BY ABOUT A FACTOR OF TEN OTHERWISE BUT I FAILED TO MULTIPLY CORRECTLY WHEN I WAS DOING THIS AND GOT AN EXTRA FACTOR OF TEN.  --CRYDDIT


If you want to spend 0.5 Bitcoins, (say, $500) and that takes you 30 to 50 of the size coins you've got, you'll be paying 25 to 38 dollars in transaction fees.  That's more reasonable than the situation the OP is faced with, but still damned annoying.  

While people that shop with credit cards and whatnot get charged a fee, those that shop with cash don't. Point is, while I can see the need to pay a fee for a cross-city or cross-country transaction, it's really unreasonable to pay the fee for a transaction you made to the clerk in front of you.

So you need to send a fee on every transaction correct? Like what if I wanted to import a paper wallet of 28 bitcoins. do I pay a fee to import it on blockchain? then when I want to split those 28 bitcoins into separate paper wallets, lets say 2 bitcoins in each paper wallets. I would have to pay a fee? How much is standard fee on 2 btc? or is it automatically set on blockchain? is it true your transaction may never get sent through??  & is it possible that a hacker can steal all of them as they go through the blockchain?  BTW do I press import or sweep?? whats the difference???

So excepersive!~

If the seller have to pay this ----> http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/MasterCard_Interchange_Rates_and_Criteria.pdf he would pay also de bitcoin fee

Please excuse if this has been asked before but quite a while back I mined 1.10024 coins through pools over a period of several weeks receiving payments on average  of 0.01xxxxxxx to 0.02 coins.
If I want to send a payment of say 0.5 coins to someone am I going to have to pay a fortune in fees because my one whole coin is comprised of lots of little bits?

The fee is OK. I don't mind it and always pay it. This is the way we support the system.
We are all here using Bitcoin and we should be positive towards it. Paying the minimum fee, advertising the system, implementing it to our websites (for webmasters). Like this we all can benefit in the the long run.

The merchant may offer a discount for electronic payment. Cash handling costs (counting it, bringing it to bank, fear robbery if too much cash, ...).

Consumer may not want to carry around cash, but carries the phone anyways.

How much do you think about getting a snack, a coffee, or a drink? Don't tell me you are going to care about those <10 cent.

Using bitcoins would not avoid sales tax. What B!tC0in said is very simple: You walk into a sandwich shop, a sandwich costs $3 (includes sales tax), you can buy it for $3 in cash or for $3.30 in BTC (assuming BTC price has risen more). You would be stupid to pay in BTC.

When i go to a shop they charge me a 21% of taxes, no product is under 5c and i never go to a shop to buy less than 50c in total, make your maths, bitcoin have the cheapest taxes in the first world.

Who's going to want to pay an extra $0.10 every time I buy something from a shop? I might aswell use cash as its free to transact, I see this is as a core problem and a big barrier to bit coin adoption. Fees should be a % of the total transaction or at least on a partial gradient as small day-to-day purchases already are uneconomical and are only going to become more uneconomical in the future.

No fee no bitcoin, no fee no bitcoin
I remember when we use to pay...

Well, you can acknowledge that these are pain points that anyone considering a new design should try to minimize.  But for Bitcoin as it exists the relationship between these are a thing that cannot be changed without radically changing the design.

If you want to create an altcoin that actually contributes something to human knowledge and capability, provides new capabilities that might be taken up into Bitcoin, and isn't just  some derivative farting around, pump-and-dump crap, find a good design solution to those three (or even any two of those three) problems and test it thoroughly in an alt-chain.

We should be striving to fix the design problems in Bitcoin, if we truly want it to dominate.

Fees are for the health of the bitcoin network, and serve to ensure that transactions cost enough that transactions are not used for flooding the network with activity by attackers, and are actually used for non-trivial money transfers. Enforced minimum fees have been reduced before when the real-world value increased beyond simply "transaction disk space should cost something".

It is set arbitrarily by consensus in the software that all Bitcoin users use - every node has a no-relay policy for non-minimum fee transaction, effectively blocking communication of transactions without it. The 0.0001 BTC minimum for relay has been in place for 2.5 years, even when mining required more. Fees are required only for certain transactions, such as if any amount spent is less than 0.01 or if the coins being sent are recent to the wallet.

Pools can include whatever transactions in blocks they want, but minimum fee blocking rules have only been knowingly altered by one pool. With the network as busy at it is now, it is best to set the optional fee above the minimum anyway if you want your money reliably sent quickly.

You cannot simultaneously complain about:

* Why do we pay fees?, it should be free for me,
* Why doesn't my transaction confirm? and,
* Why does the blockchain of all transactions take so long to download.

Currently yes. There is a plan to create an other fee system that will choose an appropiate fee within the next bitcoin-qt update.

Is the minimum bitcoin fee arbitrarily set in the system? Is there even scope to lower it substantially in the future?