Does anyone notice the "investment cost" ?

BVeyron

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K, and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

That's the gambling side of investments, it accompanies all the investments. Some people actually love the gambling aspect of investing, while others prefer getting stable but not so hig income. And there is one more thing with income after withdrawing money: the value of usd also can be different at the time of investing and at the time of withdrawing, so winning a gamble in dollars doesn't always mean winning it in true values. Especially if withdrawal is around 110-120% of the initial sum, it is often a problem. The main values are within personal psychology and priorities, not in the numbers...

WillyAp

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Quote from: Joshapat on April 16, 2023, 05:12:23 AM

unfortunately many don't know about investment costs,

That's a fact. Most investors in Crypto a quite clueless and believe that no one but they should make some money.

someone703

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

(...)Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

Are you feeling conflicted? I've found that once you've invested and believed in this market, your willingness to take the risks as well as see the opportunity to increase profits has been calculated from the start. And you bring up the problem that you yourself have not really come across in this market, remember that when you take profits from the market and then wait for the opportunity to re-enter it almost in a cycle price increases and decreases in the market. Without that volatility I firmly believe it would never have attracted people to come and buy more over time. In an investment environment, no one is absolutely perfect, but mistakes can come, and success is for those who seize that opportunity whether short-term or long-term. may happen.

Yatsan

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Quote from: Wong Gendheng on April 17, 2023, 11:00:51 AM

In my opinion as investors we must pay attention to investment costs, because the cost of several investments is usually large, so that after we withdraw and affected by costs, the final result is losing money, of course we must be careful in calculating investment costs.

Unfortunately, nothing's free especially if you are talking about investment. You have to put something in order to get something; that's how simple it is. In any field of investment, risk wouldbe present. And in order to become successful with any investment you are olanning to engage yourself into, you'd be needing more money in order to sustain what you have experienced. Costing would also be helpful especially if you are aware of your capabilities to shoulder an expense and this also applies to not only crypto investments but also with properties and businesses.Atleast, in such instance you would be able to keep the 'fire' going. Bottomline is, small or big amount is still a progress.

Wong Gendheng

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In my opinion as investors we must pay attention to investment costs, because the cost of several investments is usually large, so that after we withdraw and affected by costs, the final result is losing money, of course we must be careful in calculating investment costs.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

This act is only logical to me in one way of greed. Because the one who have more greed, try to make profits from every trade regardless of market situations. No wonder, a lot of early or pro traders book big profits in their first trade but that could be due to luck. The real skills are when you can book profit from the second trade consistently.

You should perform the same level of analysis before the second trade like you did in the first one. You should not follow your emotions of opening another trade just because you make profits in the last one. Because when you made $10k profit in first trade then by flowing in your emotional sentiments (greed) you opened another trade and lost your profit of $10k dollars. I have a tip for you to perform DCA and diversification which will decrease the ratio of loss.

Everyone notices these things before opening any trade because analysis is not a one time step to do it's a prerequisites of every trade even you are trading in the same pair. Why it is necassary? Because market is so u predictable and depends on many fundamental and technical factors which we should keep in mind before taking entry in trades. I hope you will got my point.

Negotiation

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Generally, no one cares about the cost of investing in bitcoins investors want to earn profits by holding bitcoins for long term investments. As long as the price does not go up, it should be held it would be foolish to sell when the price goes down because bitcoin is not static and the price goes through a bull run. Have to wait patiently until the maximum goes up if you can keep a strong hand don't be afraid to dip always hold the bitcoin investment.

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on April 16, 2023, 05:13:14 AM

snip

Always leave some Bitcoin left in your wallet, you can still make more gains holding some Bitcoin, with the 10,000$ Bitcoin you have left a 4x is still possible with Bitcoin in the future.

I agree, unless a person is facing an emergency that forces them to sell all their coins then an investor should never sell all his holdings and they should always keep some just in case bitcoin skyrockets dramatically, now this can be a difficult decision especially when great profits have been accrued during a bull run and people want to cash out, but it is precisely at those moments when we need to exercise our discipline and self-control and avoid making such a move.

traderethereum

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If your target is long-term then it makes sense because even if you buy at $40k and maybe drop to a low below $20k, you are losing right now, but if you can hold on until the price goes back up above $40k, you can benefit again.
If you need money and need to sell your bitcoins, you can calculate how much you need so you don't have to sell all your bitcoins simultaneously.
You can sell your bitcoins to meet the needs of the money so that you still have remaining bitcoins ready to sell at the next highest price.
And it will be even better to buy bitcoins at a low price because it will increase your bitcoin amount.

tjtonmoy

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Never put all your money in one trade. Only invest what you are willing to lose. Take risk management. Do your research before investing. Never buy at green. Buy low, sell high. Sudden drop? Have the will to hodl before it pumps back up.
These are all just common knowledge and basics of trading. So why would someone put all his money (profits included) in one trade when the price is so high? This is just a newbie mistake and a victim of greed. If you know how to analyze the market, you would never do that.
After making the first profit, move your main balance somewhere safe. Invest again with your earned profits. If the profit is higher than main balance, then move the profit. Vice versa with main balance too.
Create your own strategy and plans on managing your investments.

doomloop

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Quote from: el kaka22 on April 15, 2023, 12:05:23 PM

No, it doesn't sound logical to me. You take into consideration that I would buy something, it will go up, I will sell it, it will continue to go up, and I will buy it again. When you consider it like that then yeah there is a cost to it and that would be bad. However, how about this, I buy something, it goes up, I sell it at peak, then it goes down, then I buy it again, and it goes up, so I double my profit as well as my initial capital, so my 10k became 20k but then became 40k. Does that make sense?

It's not like that can't happen, it could very well happen and I would love to see that. However, we can't know what's going to happen in the future so whatever we do it is not going to be a great deal and we should just focus on what's real and not something that is hypothetical.

What you said is basically what a trader should be doing since that is how one can get profit from trading, but that isn't what everyone does, especially newbies, what they do is they sell early, though they get profit from that, then they start having FOMO as soon as the market goes a little bit up again and they decide to go in again.

And that is basically a mistake because one should only wait for the market to drop below the points where they've previously sold their assets to buy again if they want to get more profit and don't want to have an investment cost.

killerfrost

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what OP mentioned reflects a long process leading to failure but then what? The failure or success associated with the time that we accompany is only relative, I understand that we have different investment choices and so are each person's life circumstances that lead to the conclusion. results are in agreement with or are not satisfied with them. However, looking back on the issue of investing a little from the start to the end, it is understandable that psychology is affected and this makes a difference in our experience, as much as possible. The lesson increases the experience and then I believe that each of us will have a view of our investment that is reasonable enough with what we have.

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 05:43:45 AM

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains. "Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.", actually I am not talking about guarantees and just try to generalize something useful from millions of investors' experiences. Thanks.

Yeah, I agree you should spend/sell Bitcoin at some point to actually feel the profits. But that point about waiting still holds. A person can invest $10k at $20k, then sell at $40k. Then invest $10k again at, say, $35k. Let's say the price falls to $20k. Well, you just wait it out and then spend/sell your new investment when the price reaches a new high point, and you think you've made a reasonable profit. So the risks can generally be avoided even if a person is selling Bitcoin occasionally to actually benefit from the profit that was made. That is, if a person believes that Bitcoin always recovers and grows eventually, which is simply something many rely on but not something that can be proven.

Crypt0Gore

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You lose only if you sell, but if your goal is 2x gain then you are free to tale profit or sell all your Bitcoin and wait for a possible retracement in future, at least we are still in a bear market, we can still see a big pull back because I personally don't like how Bitcoin is pumping this hard right now, it's like we are moving too fast so yea a pullback is now inevitable.

It is advisable to take profit if you really need the money for something very important, we have no other reason when investing than to make more money to be able to solve some problems we have in our lives, so don't think it's wrong to take profits, but not having any Bitcoin left is wrong.

Always leave some Bitcoin left in your wallet, you can still make more gains holding some Bitcoin, with the 10,000$ Bitcoin you have left a 4x is still possible with Bitcoin in the future.

Joshapat

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As investors, of course we have to understand risk, unfortunately many don't know about investment costs, if we invest in stocks, we usually need a large fee when we want to withdraw, especially if the value we withdraw is very large, this is what makes us have to immediately switch to investment, cryptocurrencies that are hassle free and cost a lot.

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K, and some time later the price pumped to $40K,

it's in this aspect of scenario that makes people to invest huge amount of money in Bitcoin and invest a money that will not affect them in business or anything they are doing, from my perspective it's encouraging that long term investment is the best, because I believe that definitely Bitcoin will increase because nobody knows the secret or have the documents of Bitcoin, so with that Note I believe that Bitcoin will increase, so running a long term investment for Bitcoin it gives more profit than short term, because those who do Short term investment with bitcoin always be in panic to make profit.

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

I don't fully understand your example. You invest 10k USD and turn it into 20k USD, which you are going to sell because you need the money. So basically you are down to 0 USD and can't invest directly in bitcoins again. If you don't need the full 20k USD the best option would be to only sell some of your coins and keep the rest of them. Also if you want to reinvest into bitcoins you don't need to put all your money in at a price of 40k USD. You could try and split out your purchases to get a better price over time. Then there is the issue that short term price drops doesn't mean we have a loss at our hand immediately, as long as we are not selling our coins we are not realising our loss and can recover a few month down the road again.

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on April 16, 2023, 01:20:02 AM

Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

I actually agree, if you've profit enough with the current value of Bitcoin then you decided to buy again and got liquidated then it's not only a mistake but it could count as a greed. If you think you've profited enough you can afford the $10k money that's actually wrong. If you want to continue your success you'll decide smartly and you'll timing when you enter again the market. You also mentioned FOMO which is also part of your emotional stability, if you can't control your emotion plus trading then it will just lead you to worse calls that causes you to loss funds. Always double think before acting up to you decisions sometimes we'd decide based on our feelings, emotions and instict.

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Quote from: pixie85 on April 15, 2023, 04:14:47 PM

You even need more than 6 months, especially if you're investing a lot of money and don't earn a lot from your job.

Not really. I don't see how someone could earn little money in their job and invest a lot, it's not mathematically coherent.

If you search on personal finance you will see that they usually recommend between 3 and 6 months of expenses, and at most there are those who recommend a maximum of 6 months of salary (which if you do it right is an amount higher than your expenses). The rest to leave it in cash is to lose money because of the opportunity cost, it is better to invest it.

Another thing is that many people are not clear, or refuse to be clear, about the concept of unforeseen or emergency. Changing the wheels of your car is not an emergency, you have to save for it and leave your emergency fund untouched. If you see that your roof is going to need some repair, you better start saving from the first moment to repair it and do not wait until your roof falls down and you have to use your emergency fund to repair it.

In other words, one thing is an emergency, and another is that, apart from the emergency fund, you also save for foreseeable expenses.

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Quote from: Marcellin9 on April 14, 2023, 03:05:13 AM

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

Topic: Does anyone notice the "investment cost" ? (Read 381 times)