Does Bitcoin has any intrinsic value?

jaysabi

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Quote from: Ahmat faisol on July 14, 2017, 12:35:36 PM

For me bitcoin has an intrinsic value because the sale price is definitely profitable for every user.
If anyone thinks bicoin has no interinsic value then why does one choose an investment against bicoin.?

Bitcoin is definitely not profitable for every buyer, and that notion is ridiculous. Anyone buying something and thinking there's no risk in it and only guaranteed profit is likely an investing simpleton, and large groups of people thinking such things is sign of a bubble. Tread lightly.

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For me bitcoin has an intrinsic value because the sale price is definitely profitable for every user.
If anyone thinks bicoin has no interinsic value then why does one choose an investment against bicoin.?

jaysabi

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Quote from: ActiveP on July 06, 2017, 05:43:22 PM

Intrinsic value = characteristics. Bitcoin has more than a few. For example, it is an efficient way of transferring money over the internet, It is controlled by a decentralized network and so on.

Anybody saying it does not have any intrinsic value, should be ask what intrinsic value cash has. Henry Blodget is talking bollocks.

I don't know what you mean by "characteristics." Everything has characteristics, that doesn't mean everything has intrinsic value. As for the second point, bitcoin doesn't have intrinsic value, and neither does cash. If the government didn't establish the dollar as official currency, dollars would not have any value by themselves. That's why they aren't intrinsically valuable; their value is assigned to them.

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Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 30, 2017, 12:18:01 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on June 30, 2017, 12:01:40 PM

Intrinsic value isn't only things people "need" but things where the value comes innately from the object. You can think of intrinsic value as a synonym for "utility." Does something have value because it is useful, or is its value arbitrary? For example, silver is used in far more industrial applications than a metal like gold. Silver has more intrinsic value because it is useful for things people need to do, whereas gold's value is more arbitrary. It's just valuable because everyone agrees it is. (This is not a perfect example since gold has some industrial or medical uses, but overall it is a generally good illustration of intrinsic vs. arbitrary value.)

Then does air have any intrinsic? We need it to survive.

And just thought of this - if 1 satoshi = 1 penny, tten 1 BTC = $1M.

Yes, air's value is intrinsic since it comes from its utility. It's also virtually worthless because it's freely available and common. If that wasn't the case, air would have a market value, and that value would derive from it's intrinsic value (utility). In fact, we do have a market for air for those in need. People who are on an oxygen tank have to pay for the air in that tank. As you pointed out, those people need it to survive and can't breathe it naturally from the atmosphere, so the value of the air in that tank comes from its utility by the people who need it to survive.

Yuuto

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Intrinsic value? No currency naturally has value, but the value is how much trust people has in it and how well it can perform its function in society.

The key intrinsic value of bitcoin is that 1. it is decentralized and 2. there will only be so many coins that exist. A bit like gold, and silver. People have trust in currencies that they know won't be manipulated by governments to their benefit, and that's where bticoin derives its intrinsic value from.

I bet these people think that fiat currency has some sort of intrinsic value but bitcoin doesn't. It's the complete opposite. Governments can issue as many pieces of paper currency as they so wish, unlike bitcoin.

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Intrinsic value = characteristics. Bitcoin has more than a few. For example, it is an efficient way of transferring money over the internet, It is controlled by a decentralized network and so on.

Anybody saying it does not have any intrinsic value, should be ask what intrinsic value cash has. Henry Blodget is talking bollocks.

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Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 29, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2o

If Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics.

What do you think of all of these?

The phrase "intristic value" can be very speculative, as economic value is always a psychological phenomenon, value is not a physical property like mass or temperature. So it shouldn't matter much whether something has or has not "intristic value". And as for Bitcoin, the network itself is valuable for many people, because it allows to immutably send tokens (Bitcoins) globally, and Bitcoins are the only representation of this value.

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Quote from: cafucafucafu on July 03, 2017, 02:33:49 AM

If he thinks that bitcoin has no intrinsic value then I don't think anything has intrinsic value honestly.

Nothing currency has intrinsic value, it's that simple. Only usable things like food has intrinsic value. Currencies are simply a medium of exchange, in which people conduct their business in. Rather than talking about intrinsic value i think it is much more appropriate to talk about how decentralized something is, and how much trust people have in the currency.

For example, gold, an established form of money over the centuries, has decentralized production, much like bitcoin. It is not useful other than being a good electric conductor, but then there are much better conductors. What makes gold valuable is its rarity, much like bitcoin again, and people's trust in it, like bitcoin as well. So i think it's fair to say that just like gold, in the long run bitcoin is going to be a great hedge against inflation and financial collapses, whether or not it has intrinsic value or not.

I agree.

If I can eat something, drink something, or breathe something - it has intrinsic value.

All currencies - whether it be BTC, USD or gold - only have value because the user base believes it has value.

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It has intrinsic value in future should be bitcoin value increases,so it is easy to save the money and transfer to the money and also secure to the money.

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Quote from: Duzter on July 03, 2017, 02:23:23 AM

If you think bitcoin haven't got intrinsic value right now then you've to know more about it. If you consider anything the intrinsic value is got through their progressive growth other than few metals such as gold, diamond and so on, which is valued based on their rare availability. With bitcoin initially it might have not had intrinsic value, now everything has changed.

I couldn't agree with you the more, Bitcoin has everything thing that constitute intrinsic value(tangible and intangible factors) and so those that only want to speak down Bitcoin should change and make constructive criticisms.

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To be honest, it doesn't have much intrinsic value, because the open-source code can be copied and someone else creates a new cryptocurrency which is exactly the same. The "limited supply" is only limited for this one thing, and there can be an unlimited number of other cryptocurrencies which also have that same "limited supply".

Admittedly, Bitcoin does have a huge brand and originality, but a better marketed coin would still have an effect (and ETH has, even though it's not much good). What gives Bitcoin value is public support and faith.

But fiat currencies have absolutely no intrinsic value at all. They lose value every year because they are not backed by even public support, and they're based on debt anyway.

So if you want an easy way to move money which has some kind of intrinsic value, Bitcoin is far better than any other monetary system that I can currently think of.

cafucafucafu

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Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 29, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2o

If Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics.

What do you think of all of these?

If he thinks that bitcoin has no intrinsic value then I don't think anything has intrinsic value honestly.

Nothing currency has intrinsic value, it's that simple. Only usable things like food has intrinsic value. Currencies are simply a medium of exchange, in which people conduct their business in. Rather than talking about intrinsic value i think it is much more appropriate to talk about how decentralized something is, and how much trust people have in the currency.

For example, gold, an established form of money over the centuries, has decentralized production, much like bitcoin. It is not useful other than being a good electric conductor, but then there are much better conductors. What makes gold valuable is its rarity, much like bitcoin again, and people's trust in it, like bitcoin as well. So i think it's fair to say that just like gold, in the long run bitcoin is going to be a great hedge against inflation and financial collapses, whether or not it has intrinsic value or not.

Duzter

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If you think bitcoin haven't got intrinsic value right now then you've to know more about it. If you consider anything the intrinsic value is got through their progressive growth other than few metals such as gold, diamond and so on, which is valued based on their rare availability. With bitcoin initially it might have not had intrinsic value, now everything has changed.

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What intrinsic value has a globally reachable secure programmable open information ledger ?

szpalata

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Quote from: aTriz on July 02, 2017, 11:46:59 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 29, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2o

If Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics.

What do you think of all of these?

I don't know why he seems to think that bitcoin will go to greater heights than it is at right now(actually he mentioned 1 million dollars in the video per bitcoin), but thinks that bitcoin has no intrinsic value. What the actual F***?

I'll tell him what bitcoin's intrinsic value is - its ability to serve as a functional, decentralized and pseudoanonymous currency. Its intrinsic value is its in code, because of the rarity of bitcoin(much like gold and silver), it means that bitcoin will always be sought after. Both because it is useful, and because it is limited in number, meaning that it is a store of value.

It's not surprising that he would say this, as he is part of the big business elite that is threatened by btc.

Exactly, these guys will cease the smallest opportunity to run down Bitcoin and its becoming an alarming trend which needs to be stopped somehow because they seek to create panic for people (especially newbies) to sell.

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Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 29, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2o

If Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics.

What do you think of all of these?

I don't know why he seems to think that bitcoin will go to greater heights than it is at right now(actually he mentioned 1 million dollars in the video per bitcoin), but thinks that bitcoin has no intrinsic value. What the actual F***?

I'll tell him what bitcoin's intrinsic value is - its ability to serve as a functional, decentralized and pseudoanonymous currency. Its intrinsic value is its in code, because of the rarity of bitcoin(much like gold and silver), it means that bitcoin will always be sought after. Both because it is useful, and because it is limited in number, meaning that it is a store of value.

It's not surprising that he would say this, as he is part of the big business elite that is threatened by btc.

Kyraishi

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Quote from: Bitcoin Guy on June 29, 2017, 09:31:51 PM

Business Insider CEO Henry Blodget said Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxycmMo8Z2o

If Bitcoin has any intrinsic values, then what are they? The author of the video did bring up 10 "intrinsic values". It is very hard to determine if they are intrinsic values or just characteristics.

What do you think of all of these?

The definition of intrinsic value is extremely ambiguous. When searched up on a dictionary, the definition of intrinsic is naturally occurring. So in my opinion intrinsic value is how well the currency can perform as a currency, and how much trust the public puts into the currency.

People say that gold is the only currency that has intrinsic value, but i beg to differ with these people. Gold is only valuable because people think it is valuable, and this belief has developed through many centuries. The only useful feature that gold has really is its shininess.

I definitely disagree with the person that said this. Bitcoin is essentially digital gold, and a big part of why so many people like bitcoin is because bitcoin is decentralized. Only when something cannot be abused by governments or businesses can it have "intrinsic value".

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One definiton of intrinsic I have here is: "What is real, that matters independent of relation with other things".

Bitcoin depends internet to work and desktops, pen drives, storage informatic items to exist. So it's not intrinsic, it's virtual and without a lot of conditions it doesn't have any use. If the guy says the opposite it's just talk talk.

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No.

But in almost all cases the intrinsic value of something that is commonly perceived to have it is tiny, everyone's excitement around it humongously inflates it.

The people who tout gold's intrinsic value always refer to the industrial purposes. That being the case gold's intrinsic value is piddling. It's the speculative value that gives people boners. Gold's common as muck compared to many other metals but 95% or more of the value is down to sentimentality and racial memory.

Tens or hundreds of millions have died in the pursuit of dollars or the dollar of the day. The only value they have these days is the collective faith that it's worth something. That's a universe more powerful than something with the intrinsic value of curing your itchy arse or conducting electricity rather niftily.

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Quote from: Kprawn on June 30, 2017, 11:46:48 AM

It has speculative value lately and that is all that count for some people. You have to ask yourself, "What intrinsic value" does cash have?

People are looking for reasons to discredit Bitcoin or to reduce it's significance and they forget that we {the users} give Bitcoin it's value. We

create the demand and Bitcoin provide the steady supply. Grin

{ not some central authority } Grin

Exactly, talking down Bitcoin has become the hobby of some people who should know better, they quickly go for terms and reasons that are no reasons at all and seek to explain the flaws of Bitcoin. It's about time they realize they've failed several times and ought to reflect and come again. Enough of the badmouthing, dude!

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