Topic: Does Bitcoin Need To Scale - page 3. (Read 522 times)

Will this thing depend on each person or holder of the BTC and other assets whether they want to scale or not?
Bitcoin is interesting asset not only for hodl but also for trading. Let set aside the trading in this case and focus on hodl.
So far, Personally, I only have target of holding my BTC safely in the wallet. It depends son how I manage the asset so far. But importantly, they must be diversified.
1. For long term holding or investment, I think I need some ways to scale in what times or years I will hold the bitcoin, how many years, at least it should be more than 4 years, Why? I have no exact reason for this. 
2. Holding to get the target of reaching a certain amount of the BTC price. It may be safe enough and I need to disversify the selling tme of this BTC asset.

However, if it is discussed generally, we may not have any exact scales that can be the guidance for the price and also period. 

Without some scaling solutions like segwit and the lightning network Bitcoin would have bottlenecked long ago.
If you were trying to send a transaction in January of 2018 you knew how painful a bottleneck can be.

I suspect that this situation would only grow and make people unable to process a transaction without waiting a week or paying $200 in fees.

I believe bitcoin is a currency and because of that it should be able to scale to a lot of transactions per day.
If we are having trouble with times and prices of fee's right now, think about what would happen if bitcoin became a regular standard of payment method?

Like let's say you have a debit card but it is purely based on your bitcoin holdings, you go out to a restaurant and eat something and pay with bitcoin, then you go to movies and buy the ticket with bitcoin, and after the movie you go to a cafe to eat a desert and then you go home, all of which was paid with bitcoin which is awesome right? We all want bitcoin to be something like that right?

But, if we can't even handle the current situation how are we going to make it work for the days we could spend like that?

Forex assets in your brokerage account can't be used to buy a cup of coffee. And that's mainly what we're talking about isn't it? Most people treat BTC like an investment asset, including Wall Street. That equates to lots of BTC locked up with custodians, and lots of HODLing, regardless of what investors can do with it in theory.


What's the conflict exactly?

The potential reward associated with BTC investment greatly outweighs the volatility risk. Smart money can see that.

I think that there's no contradiction between the long term HODL investors and the short term crypto day traders.They both need each other.
The day traders provide market liquidity and can pump the price,creating bullish rallies and the possibility of reach a new ATH.On the other hand,the expectations for new bullish rallies and a new ATH are the main reasons the HODLers are buying and HODLing their bitcoins.
If we try to view this from another perspective,the HODLers are reducing the market supply of BTC,by holding their Bitcoins,therefore creating conditions for the Bitcoin price to go up(limited supply+increased demand=higher price+higher price volatility).
This is exactly what the day traders want.It's a win-win.

The answer people provide to that question is going to depend primarily on their personal perspective.  Those who want to see Bitcoin closely resemble digital cash are likely going to lean more towards 'Yes'.  Those who use it as more of an asset class may naturally lean more towards 'No'.  In practice, there isn't a right or wrong answer.  Only an answer that will suit any given individual's preferences.

My thinking is, whether anyone thinks it needs to scale or not, those who believe Bitcoin does need to scale will focus their efforts on developing towards that goal.  So, given the nature of permissionless development, they are the ones with the impetus behind them.  I don't really see how anyone could develop towards the goal of preventing scaling, given that there are many ways to achieve it which don't necessarily require full consensus.

Essentially, the picture points to scaling happening regardless.

But if we're talking exclusively about the speculators who want to see Bitcoin as an "optimized HODL asset", I'd say there's too much of a dichotomy in Bitcoin for that to ever be practical.  You can certainly use Bitcoin in that manner if you wish, but I doubt that's ever going to be the only way it's used.  So it will never be "optimised" in that regard.  You're always going to have those people sharing this network with you who want to spend their BTC like a currency.

Forex (Fiat currencies) are used for trading and daily use, why should Bitcoin be any different? The lightning Network is supposed to function as the high volume side-chain for daily transactions and the normal day trading are mostly done on internal exchange platforms and not on the actual Blockchain. (Only when you withdraw to BTC at the exchange or sending BTC to the exchange)

Nah... Bitcoin is very well developed to handle both the load from daily "currency" transactions and the smaller day trading and withdrawals from exchanges.  

In the last 24 hours, there were 341 000 transactions with around 900 000 outputs.

At this pace, assuming everyone would simply hodl and not move a coin, it will take 20 years for everyone on earth to get a bitcoin, if everyone would then want to move that coin to a different wallet it will take another 20 years if they would want to send it to an exchange and sell another 20 years.
So, between getting your coins, sending them to storage and then selling them to cash out you will have an average of 40 years.
That's some extreme holding, isn't it?



 

Basic premise

• Bitcoin HODL may have no reason to scale
• For the same reasons 401ks, roth IRAs, precious metals and other HODL investment vehicles are not structured to accommodate thousands of ATM convenient fund transactions per second

....

High volatility, instability and price fluctuations are more strongly correlated with day traded FOREX assets which can be utilized to buy a cup of coffee. In contrast to the polar opposite.

Long term investment vehicles, tend to prefer lower average volatility coupled with balance locking virtually identical to crypto staking. Or limited options for withdrawal, with some time based penalties for early fund access.

There may be a fundamental conflict between being a high volume day traded asset which can be utilized to purchase daily goods and services. And being an optimized HODL asset. Which in traditional finance is geared towards lower volatility, less volume and reduced access. A conflict which is seldom acknowledged.

I think this is an interesting discussion topic for crypto. What do you think?