Does CoinMarketCap (CMC) manipulates the market?

JollyGood

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Quote from: imstillthebest on September 12, 2019, 03:07:32 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on September 11, 2019, 06:32:40 PM

One thing to note though is the manner in which CMC does exclude certain exchanges when looking at coins trade volumes. For example, here we can see the MNX (Minexcoin) scammers on HitBTC being excluded from the volumes because they claim to have buyers at $0.33 when the price being traded is around $0.09

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/minexcoin/#markets

but you said earlier that cmc lists it all no matter if the datas are legit or not . and now your saying that they are excluding some shady data's ? hmmm ... that confuses me a bit .

Do not be confused.

The CMC API that are used by exchanges to send trade volumes do exactly that and CMC takes their word for it - so it seems.

When one, two or several exchanges are selling a particular coin for $0.01 and another is selling the same coin for $100 then those volumes are excluded by CMC. That is probably completed by a simple check.

They are not a police but if anybody wants to know what is going on they should contact CMC directly.

Quote from: 1Referee on September 12, 2019, 05:41:27 AM

Quote from: imstillthebest on September 12, 2019, 03:07:32 AM

but you said earlier that cmc lists it all no matter if the datas are legit or not . and now your saying that they are excluding some shady data's ? hmmm ... that confuses me a bit .

What he tried to explain is that CMC lists every coin price and volume metric on their site, but they can exclude individual or combined metrics so that they don't get calculated into their price and/or volume index. This is done to prevent unnecessary inflation, even though they still are inflating price and volume metrics by a lot. Cheesy

When CMC excludes metrics they use */**/*** to point out what metric is exactly excluded;

Quote

* Price Excluded
** Volume Excluded
*** Price/Volume Excluded - Outlier Detected

Thank you for elaborating Wink

Quote from: pooya87 on September 12, 2019, 03:14:05 AM

Quote from: imstillthebest on September 12, 2019, 03:07:32 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on September 11, 2019, 06:32:40 PM

CMC is not a police-type authority. It simply takes the information it receives and displays it.

they arent ? i thought cmc is trusted when it comes to crypto stuffs and informations .

it is data that they show not information, so it is raw and can be interpreted anyways you like. as for trust, there isn't much they could fake because it is the data that they fetch from the exchanges and then show it on their site.
i wouldn't say they are or even can manipulate the market because they simply have no power. but they certainly can mislead people. for example two biggest things they are doing is the "dominance" factor which is meaningless and "ranking" altcoins and the concept of "top coins" which is just as meaningless.

Yes it is the raw data that is displayed by CMC and that data can easily be manipulated to the needs, motives and desires of the ones sending it.

1Referee

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Quote from: imstillthebest on September 12, 2019, 03:07:32 AM

but you said earlier that cmc lists it all no matter if the datas are legit or not . and now your saying that they are excluding some shady data's ? hmmm ... that confuses me a bit .

What he tried to explain is that CMC lists every coin price and volume metric on their site, but they can exclude individual or combined metrics so that they don't get calculated into their price and/or volume index. This is done to prevent unnecessary inflation, even though they still are inflating price and volume metrics by a lot. Cheesy

When CMC excludes metrics they use */**/*** to point out what metric is exactly excluded;

Quote

* Price Excluded
** Volume Excluded
*** Price/Volume Excluded - Outlier Detected

pooya87

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Quote from: imstillthebest on September 12, 2019, 03:07:32 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on September 11, 2019, 06:32:40 PM

CMC is not a police-type authority. It simply takes the information it receives and displays it.

they arent ? i thought cmc is trusted when it comes to crypto stuffs and informations .

it is data that they show not information, so it is raw and can be interpreted anyways you like. as for trust, there isn't much they could fake because it is the data that they fetch from the exchanges and then show it on their site.
i wouldn't say they are or even can manipulate the market because they simply have no power. but they certainly can mislead people. for example two biggest things they are doing is the "dominance" factor which is meaningless and "ranking" altcoins and the concept of "top coins" which is just as meaningless.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: JollyGood on September 11, 2019, 06:32:40 PM

CMC is not a police-type authority. It simply takes the information it receives and displays it.

they arent ? i thought cmc is trusted when it comes to crypto stuffs and informations .

Quote

So basically when scam exchanges such as coinsbit and p2pb2b show they are trading US$ BILLIONS a week when they really have near zero traffic and near zero customer and near zero trade - CMC just takes their word for it.

but did cmc takes some comisions before the display of data takes place ? but thanks for the info , i didnt know that coinsbit is really scam because i see this oftenly being recomended inside the forum .

Quote

One thing to note though is the manner in which CMC does exclude certain exchanges when looking at coins trade volumes. For example, here we can see the MNX (Minexcoin) scammers on HitBTC being excluded from the volumes because they claim to have buyers at $0.33 when the price being traded is around $0.09

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/minexcoin/#markets

but you said earlier that cmc lists it all no matter if the datas are legit or not . and now your saying that they are excluding some shady data's ? hmmm ... that confuses me a bit .

JollyGood

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Quote from: vlom on March 24, 2018, 03:59:59 PM

Fraudulent data provided on CoinMarketCap distorts entire crypto-currency market perception

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/intro-how-coinmarketcap-cmc-manipulates-the-market-by-showing-fraudulent-information-to-the-c1246a953144

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/part-a1-fraudulent-data-provided-on-coinmarketcap-distorts-entire-crypto-currency-market-77e01f067b49

i think this is worth reading. especially because of this:

Quote

Most people here are concerned about centralised mining cartels, hardware producers, banks, governments, regulators and/or core developers being points of issues in this industry. We strongly believe that none of those come even close to comparing to the obvious fraud that has been going on at CoinMarketCap for many years.

i appreciate the work they have done by writing these posts.

CMC is not a police-type authority. It simply takes the information it receives and displays it. So basically when scam exchanges such as coinsbit and p2pb2b show they are trading US$ BILLIONS a week when they really have near zero traffic and near zero customer and near zero trade - CMC just takes their word for it.

One thing to note though is the manner in which CMC does exclude certain exchanges when looking at coins trade volumes. For example, here we can see the MNX (Minexcoin) scammers on HitBTC being excluded from the volumes because they claim to have buyers at $0.33 when the price being traded is around $0.09

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/minexcoin/#markets

numizmat

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Many of such manipulation caused by the fact that CMC generally issues aggregating prices - ticker data - while not providing per-market+exchange charts/data. Some of their competitors like https://coin.market/ provide such trades data, so you can calculate how much volume in each moment and so on - you can also check how many trades were to get, for example, btc/usd in a selected price range on all exchanges or on one exchange - it allow to easily avoid such manipulations from shady exchanges.
For example, you can also check how many trades were in a selected pair in a selected price range on all exchanges or on each exchange they follow. So, for example, if you want to see xrp/eth on binance it allows to do that. CMC aggregates xrp/eth xrp/btc xrp/usd into XRP, and doesn't allow you to see it individually.

semobo

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Quote from: GoldenLad on March 31, 2018, 02:41:24 PM

Well, I haven't used any site expect CoinMarketCap and it was indeed heart breaking when I first saw the video and news. Nevertheless, in some way, i still believe it could be a bug that might have caused those price difference error. Even after the news, I still use and visit it. Since they haven't released any statement about this incident, I just want to believe it was unintentional.

But it is not a good idea to just follow only one site for following the price,who kniws CMC owned by a whake he can change the prices to manipulate the market so it will be better to have some alternatives while checking the details about cryotocurrency.The above oost of yours contains some alternatives options for CMC so you can visit them and bookmark them for future usage.

solarion

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Quote from: yojodojo21 on April 20, 2018, 06:42:38 AM

I have seen some bad comments about coinmarketcap, and I think coinmarketcap is getting obsolete, there was a time that in the side of "bitcoin (BTc) there was an image of lamborghini, maybe it was a kind of joke or something else but it was unnecessary, I am now used to check cryptos in worldcoinindex, a good site and price between " CMC" and WCI" has a difference I think worldcoinindex is much better but i'm not promoting it I just experience the quality.

Top rated website are does not need the promotion at all mate. I see the people checking the market place and circulation mostly on CoinMarketCap website. Next to this you may check the Coingecko website which can be do the same thing there mate.
I do not think CMC here to manipulate the value or something. It shows the same value where we see in other analysis website as well.
I am not much familier with the Worldcoinindex website so I cannot give review about them.

yojodojo21

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I have seen some bad comments about coinmarketcap, and I think coinmarketcap is getting obsolete, there was a time that in the side of "bitcoin (BTc) there was an image of lamborghini, maybe it was a kind of joke or something else but it was unnecessary, I am now used to check cryptos in worldcoinindex, a good site and price between " CMC" and WCI" has a difference I think worldcoinindex is much better but i'm not promoting it I just experience the quality.

GoldenLad

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Well, I haven't used any site expect CoinMarketCap and it was indeed heart breaking when I first saw the video and news. Nevertheless, in some way, i still believe it could be a bug that might have caused those price difference error. Even after the news, I still use and visit it. Since they haven't released any statement about this incident, I just want to believe it was unintentional.

Seetheummerallyeah

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If a single website used simply for displaying information has the ability to manipulate a market worth billions of dollars, I would argue something is wrong with the community rather than the website. Remember when CoinMarketCap removed Korean exchanges from their site leading to a crash in prices? It says a lot about crypto "investors" when they are so easily manipulated by one change on CMC.

I'm sure CMC manipulates the market in some way, unintentional or intentional. In fact every site has the ability to manipulate people (CMC "manipulation" is simply more noticeable because they have the vast majority of visitors). If you want to stop it the best way to simply use alternatives. There are many similar (and arguably better) websites out there, including but not limited to:

https://www.livecoinwatch.com/
https://coincodex.com/
https://coinlib.io/
https://coinkapp.com/
https://coincheckup.com/
https://onchainfx.com/
https://cryptowat.ch/
https://www.moonstats.com/
https://www.worldcoinindex.com/
https://bitgur.com/
https://blockexplorer.com/market
https://www.coingecko.com/en

Thanasis

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Quote from: Thanasis on March 25, 2018, 12:39:40 PM

Quote from: vlom on March 24, 2018, 03:59:59 PM

Fraudulent data provided on CoinMarketCap distorts entire crypto-currency market perception

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/intro-how-coinmarketcap-cmc-manipulates-the-market-by-showing-fraudulent-information-to-the-c1246a953144

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/part-a1-fraudulent-data-provided-on-coinmarketcap-distorts-entire-crypto-currency-market-77e01f067b49

i think this is worth reading. especially because of this:

Quote

Most people here are concerned about centralised mining cartels, hardware producers, banks, governments, regulators and/or core developers being points of issues in this industry. We strongly believe that none of those come even close to comparing to the obvious fraud that has been going on at CoinMarketCap for many years.

i appreciate the work they have done by writing these posts.

So never trust anyone blindly do your own research to keep our hard earned money to be worthful.But I saw an alternative to CMC fewdays before but I forgot to bookmark it now I have to search my histories now to find the name of the site.But it was really very good alternative to CMC and real time price updating no refresh is needed.I will place the link once I found it.Hopefully soon.

Hey guys I found that site,it was named as World Coin Index.

It looks really very good site with real time price update and also the indicators available for price bump and dump so it maybe a good alternative for the CMC,so guys use it here after.

bitcoin revo

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It's looking like another cryptocurrency giant is headed towards the door, unfortunately. Good find on the author's part. I agree with 1Referee - it's a design that just invites manipulation - but it doesn't change how harmful it is. Besides, it's arguably considered a "trustworthy" site and since that's where new traders are continually directed towards, we've got a major problem on our hands.

Quote from: felicita on March 26, 2018, 03:41:12 PM

I also head this bad news but how to know if this is true ?
When i look on my primary Coins like BTC and LTC they allways showning the correct prize and charts .

regards

Taking a look at the link article instead of reverting back to your own experiences with two huge cryptocurrencies would be helpful in your case, but I'll wrap up a few examples of how CMC is (potentially) misinforming their audience for their personal gain - directly from the first article linked:

Allowing and even encouraging pump and dumps

Quote

CMC puts the circulating supply as very high at certain points (increasing the market cap), then drops it down to a much lower number later (lowering the market cap). This moves these coins up or down their numbered list causing massive buys and sell offs at the whim of CMC.

"Killing" coins based on their own gain

Quote

How does it “kill” a coin? Well, it removes its circulating supply to “?” or a very low number arbitrarily, and keeps it there for a prolonged period. As the coin goes lower and lower in the rankings, daily volume on the coin dies off until such a time that it is zero (even though the teams behind the coins are still active and growing their ecosystems). This leads to exchanges delisting the coin, and the ecosystem being entirely dead after a period of time. There is plenty of evidence of coin communities complaining and coin creators “begging” CMC to update their information with no luck. CMC literally decides which coin lives or dies with it’s own agendas.

Outdated info

Quote

Official coin links being broken or unresponsive, including the main websites, wrong daily volumes (not updated in days or weeks), and hugely different circulating supplies (from those you can officially see on the respective blockchains of the coins themselves)

These are all targeted towards the smaller coins, the ones that they can safely manipulate (to small degrees, still). Misinformation isn't just a price change on CMC with BTC, ETH, or LTC - those would immediately oust CMC to an uncomfortable position.

Hamphser

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Quote from: khufuking on March 26, 2018, 07:16:16 AM

I have gone threw the whole article , the amount of information provided blew my mind , I do not know from where to start but we can bypass the first 5 coins mentioned in the article the difference off marketcap does not make huge change or effect the rank list but there is still some mistakes specially with BTC official site , it is a joke to leave it as BCH site .

starting from coin number 6 things started to get interesting the difference in circulating supply in some coins is huge and is for sure effecting the whole market specially for a coin like Stellar and the list goes on and on .

I always go to CMC for info but never invested according to them , I always use the social media accounts for the coins I like and ask them the questions by myself if I am to invest on a certain coin .

Price and marketcap differences on top 5 coins is considerable which same as you said it doesnt really make an impact or whatsoever in the price but when we do tried to go further we can really see the differences of numbers into other top ranked coins. 6th onwards which isnt really right at all.If you are just basing on CMC on most of the time when you do make investment or trading then these numbers will affect you.We dont even know if these are intentional or not.

felicita

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I also head this bad news but how to know if this is true ?
When i look on my primary Coins like BTC and LTC they allways showning the correct prize and charts .

regards

khufuking

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I have gone threw the whole article , the amount of information provided blew my mind , I do not know from where to start but we can bypass the first 5 coins mentioned in the article the difference off marketcap does not make huge change or effect the rank list but there is still some mistakes specially with BTC official site , it is a joke to leave it as BCH site .

starting from coin number 6 things started to get interesting the difference in circulating supply in some coins is huge and is for sure effecting the whole market specially for a coin like Stellar and the list goes on and on .

I always go to CMC for info but never invested according to them , I always use the social media accounts for the coins I like and ask them the questions by myself if I am to invest on a certain coin .

Oceat

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Quote from: richardsNY on March 25, 2018, 05:13:10 PM

Quote from: 1Referee on March 25, 2018, 01:42:54 PM

It's a noob website to start with. Everything related to these sites, and the same basically applies to crypto news sources; you see what THEY want/allow you to see.

Can't agree more. In a way, all these services, because that's what they are in the end, are the root of a lot fud attacks and fake news articles, and they very well know how easily people believe everything they spit out, and aren't shy of abusing that authoritative position. I don't know if it is even possible to successfully sue individual services for spreading fake news and manipulation right now, but that might change with how this ecosystem is becoming more and more regulated. I remember how the community made it seem like a big deal when CMC decided to remove South Korean markets from the average market price. Like seriously, such a site can trigger that much panic? It was almost embarrassing to see.

Whoever made that site was a price manipulator for their own agenda releasing such FUD or fake news. I wonder if one of those "whales" are doing it just because of his own personal interest but maybe i couldn't take it out of my mind since they were the most powerful person when it comes to manipulating something, i hope i'm not right but it seems to me that it hits them to their nerve.

richardsNY

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Quote from: 1Referee on March 25, 2018, 01:42:54 PM

It's a noob website to start with. Everything related to these sites, and the same basically applies to crypto news sources; you see what THEY want/allow you to see.

Can't agree more. In a way, all these services, because that's what they are in the end, are the root of a lot fud attacks and fake news articles, and they very well know how easily people believe everything they spit out, and aren't shy of abusing that authoritative position. I don't know if it is even possible to successfully sue individual services for spreading fake news and manipulation right now, but that might change with how this ecosystem is becoming more and more regulated. I remember how the community made it seem like a big deal when CMC decided to remove South Korean markets from the average market price. Like seriously, such a site can trigger that much panic? It was almost embarrassing to see.

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Quote from: Thanasis on March 25, 2018, 12:39:40 PM

Quote from: vlom on March 24, 2018, 03:59:59 PM

Fraudulent data provided on CoinMarketCap distorts entire crypto-currency market perception

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/intro-how-coinmarketcap-cmc-manipulates-the-market-by-showing-fraudulent-information-to-the-c1246a953144

https://medium.com/@coinmarketcapped/part-a1-fraudulent-data-provided-on-coinmarketcap-distorts-entire-crypto-currency-market-77e01f067b49

i think this is worth reading. especially because of this:

Quote

Most people here are concerned about centralised mining cartels, hardware producers, banks, governments, regulators and/or core developers being points of issues in this industry. We strongly believe that none of those come even close to comparing to the obvious fraud that has been going on at CoinMarketCap for many years.

i appreciate the work they have done by writing these posts.

So never trust anyone blindly do your own research to keep our hard earned money to be worthful.But I saw an alternative to CMC fewdays before but I forgot to bookmark it now I have to search my histories now to find the name of the site.But it was really very good alternative to CMC and real time price updating no refresh is needed.I will place the link once I found it.Hopefully soon.

This is all we need where do price and other important informations is constantly updated.I have already pictured this out that manipulation can really happen since they do already in the position on where they can really possibly bribe projects to make their cap even more lower which I was actually surprised that this thing goes so far.We know CMC is being used mainly when it comes on checking out prices and now they are bust up, we don't know if those informations being not updated or just being putted on purpose.

1Referee

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It's a noob website to start with. Everything related to these sites, and the same basically applies to crypto news sources; you see what THEY want/allow you to see.

In other words, everything should be taken with a truckload of salt, and I am sure that they do have a financial bias towards certain crypto currencies. It's impossible to actually prove anything from our side, but that doesn't change much in the end, which is that we always should do our own research before taking third party information for granted. We just have to accept that every entity in this market has its own hidden agenda motives, and they will do everything to book the results they are looking for, even at your cost. Get over it and move on.

Topic: Does CoinMarketCap (CMC) manipulates the market? (Read 447 times)