Does hoarding hurt Bitcoin ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

CoinCidental

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Quote from: JoelKatz on August 05, 2012, 04:51:07 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on August 05, 2012, 04:04:45 AM

yes ,but if you print a few billion extra copies of any book ,you let me know how the sales go Wink

The same thing would happen with dollars. Like anything else, their value is dependent on the supply and the demand.

correct ,but since its not possible to print up an extra few million diamonds or gold bars or even bitcoins they have a value in their scarcity that printed money does not

thats why i think of bitcoin as a commodity as much as a currency ........but theres no reason it cant be both

JoelKatz

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Quote from: CoinCidental on August 05, 2012, 04:04:45 AM

yes ,but if you print a few billion extra copies of any book ,you let me know how the sales go Wink

The same thing would happen with dollars. Like anything else, their value is dependent on the supply and the demand.

CoinCidental

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Quote from: JoelKatz on August 04, 2012, 05:30:52 PM

Quote from: CoinCidental on August 04, 2012, 09:08:42 AM

a commodity can not be increased artificicialy ,you can leave the printing presses on all night and print an extra billion dollars if you want

You can not do this with gold ,or diamonds or bitcoins

i think he means that ......

You can leave the printing presses on all night and print an extra billion copies of any book, but books are a commodity.

yes ,but if you print a few billion extra copies of any book ,you let me know how the sales go Wink

JoelKatz

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Quote from: CoinCidental on August 04, 2012, 09:08:42 AM

a commodity can not be increased artificicialy ,you can leave the printing presses on all night and print an extra billion dollars if you want

You can not do this with gold ,or diamonds or bitcoins

i think he means that ......

You can leave the printing presses on all night and print an extra billion copies of any book, but books are a commodity.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: Boussac on August 04, 2012, 07:47:58 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 03, 2012, 09:49:11 PM

All money is a commodity.
(...)
Something that is "fiat" is inherently NOT a commodity.

I am not following you.

Something that is fiat is given value by a government. Commodities are valuable because people want them. There is no actual demand for little pieces of green paper with magic symbols on them to satisfy needs or wants, they're demand in dependent on their FIAT status.

Commodities are things that need no government intervention to be desired by people. People want sugar, coffee, and bitcoins NOT because the government said they were valuable, but because of their own utility.

CoinCidental

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Quote from: Boussac on August 04, 2012, 07:47:58 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 03, 2012, 09:49:11 PM

All money is a commodity.
(...)
Something that is "fiat" is inherently NOT a commodity.

I am not following you.

a commodity can not be increased artificicialy ,you can leave the printing presses on all night and print an extra billion dollars if you want

You can not do this with gold ,or diamonds or bitcoins

i think he means that ......

Boussac

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 03, 2012, 09:49:11 PM

All money is a commodity.
(...)
Something that is "fiat" is inherently NOT a commodity.

I am not following you.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: Boussac on August 03, 2012, 04:49:18 PM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 02, 2012, 09:04:44 AM

Quote from: Boussac on August 02, 2012, 04:09:19 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 01, 2012, 01:45:52 PM

Thread title should be changed to "Does SAVING hurt bitcoin"

"Hoarding" is a term used by commies to justify stealing from people. It implies that anyone who saves money is a greedy bastard.

That's right: the word "hoarding" is commonly used to justify non-sense meant to prevent it, like the "demurrage" gloobiboolga.

However, "saving" is just to vague. Hoarding applies nicely to "commodity" money. So , for lack of a better word...

All money is a commodity. Commodities are simply goods demanded by the market. Money are commodities with wide enough demand to be used as a medium of exchange.

That's right only because some crooks have commoditized fiat money. Today 4000 billion USD worth of fiat money is traded DAILY on global forex markets (I know, it's hard to believe). Some people get rich just trading on the forex. How pathetic. This kind of volume only shows the extent to which fiat money has been hijacked by banksters and speculators for their own profits to the detriment of creative, productive people.

Bitcoin is a digital commodity that can be used as money. So the term "commodity" money is a short cut. In fact, I am referring to "inelastic" money vs elastic money. However "inelastic" for most people will signal something cumbersome and hardly adaptive. Hence the term "commodity money", again for lack of a better word...

I think you are using some bastardized definition of "commodity". Something that is "fiat" is inherently NOT a commodity. The definition: In economics, a commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs

"Fiat" means its not marketable or produced to satisfy wants or needs because its only value is imposed by the government.

Bitcoin DOES fit the definition of "Commodity".

Boussac

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 02, 2012, 09:04:44 AM

Quote from: Boussac on August 02, 2012, 04:09:19 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 01, 2012, 01:45:52 PM

Thread title should be changed to "Does SAVING hurt bitcoin"

"Hoarding" is a term used by commies to justify stealing from people. It implies that anyone who saves money is a greedy bastard.

That's right: the word "hoarding" is commonly used to justify non-sense meant to prevent it, like the "demurrage" gloobiboolga.

However, "saving" is just to vague. Hoarding applies nicely to "commodity" money. So , for lack of a better word...

All money is a commodity. Commodities are simply goods demanded by the market. Money are commodities with wide enough demand to be used as a medium of exchange.

That's right only because some crooks have commoditized fiat money. Today 4000 billion USD worth of fiat money is traded DAILY on global forex markets (I know, it's hard to believe). Some people get rich just trading on the forex. How pathetic. This kind of volume only shows the extent to which fiat money has been hijacked by banksters and speculators for their own profits to the detriment of creative, productive people.

Bitcoin is a digital commodity that can be used as money. So the term "commodity" money is a short cut. In fact, I am referring to "inelastic" money vs elastic money. However "inelastic" for most people will signal something cumbersome and hardly adaptive. Hence the term "commodity money", again for lack of a better word...

FreeMoney

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Quote from: byronbb on August 02, 2012, 01:14:16 PM

Because of the potential upside I am willing to horde my coins at the risk of losing the negligible amount of fiat I have invested in it. Moreover, I will never sell my coins for fiat. I will only ever use my coins to buy items. Due to the limited items available to me, I can only horde.

If you will -never- sell coins for fiat you've got way to much fiat sitting around. Get rid of some of it and if things go worse with your earnings and/or expenses than you currently project move some back into fiat.

byronbb

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Because of the potential upside I am willing to horde my coins at the risk of losing the negligible amount of fiat I have invested in it. Moreover, I will never sell my coins for fiat. I will only ever use my coins to buy items. Due to the limited items available to me, I can only horde.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: Boussac on August 02, 2012, 04:09:19 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 01, 2012, 01:45:52 PM

Thread title should be changed to "Does SAVING hurt bitcoin"

"Hoarding" is a term used by commies to justify stealing from people. It implies that anyone who saves money is a greedy bastard.

That's right: the word "hoarding" is commonly used to justify non-sense meant to prevent it, like the "demurrage" gloobiboolga.

However, "saving" is just to vague. Hoarding applies nicely to "commodity" money. So , for lack of a better word...

All money is a commodity. Commodities are simply goods demanded by the market. Money are commodities with wide enough demand to be used as a medium of exchange.

FreeMoney

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Strength in numbers

Quote from: notme on August 02, 2012, 12:49:19 AM

Quote from: FreeMoney on August 01, 2012, 10:52:16 PM

Hoarding = terrible
Saving = awesome

Roll Eyes

I both horded and saved the BTC you paid me for myraidcoins.com

.

Does that mean I'm terribly awesome?

Correct.

Boussac

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e-ducat.fr

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on August 01, 2012, 01:45:52 PM

Thread title should be changed to "Does SAVING hurt bitcoin"

"Hoarding" is a term used by commies to justify stealing from people. It implies that anyone who saves money is a greedy bastard.

That's right: the word "hoarding" is commonly used to justify non-sense meant to prevent it, like the "demurrage" gloobiboolga.

However, "saving" is just to vague. Hoarding applies nicely to "commodity" money. So , for lack of a better word...

Realpra

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Quote from: FreeMoney on August 01, 2012, 10:52:16 PM

Hoarding = terrible
Saving = awesome

Roll Eyes

Speculators = terrible
Investors = awesome

notme

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Quote from: FreeMoney on August 01, 2012, 10:52:16 PM

Hoarding = terrible
Saving = awesome

Roll Eyes

I both horded and saved the BTC you paid me for myraidcoins.com

.

Does that mean I'm terribly awesome?

FreeMoney

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Activity: 1246

Merit: 1016

Strength in numbers

Hoarding = terrible
Saving = awesome

Roll Eyes

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: notme on August 01, 2012, 01:07:28 PM

Isn't ornamental use just a form of hording combined with occasional bragging (wearing it)?

I guess it's a matter of definition. "Hoarding" is kind of a useless, loaded term anyway. It implies that deferring consumption somehow deprives other people of something when in fact it does precisely the opposite. It's based on the myth that consumption drives the economy when the truth is that production drive it. A hoarder still produces, otherwise they would have no way to acquire the thing they are hoarding. A hoarder simply doesn't consume, which just leaves more for everyone else.

notme

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Quote from: CoinCidental on August 01, 2012, 02:40:05 PM

Quote from: TTBit on August 01, 2012, 02:36:21 PM

Hoarding hurts the individual, not bitcoin in general.

Imagine an individual owns 99,999 bitcoins. He can acquire the 100,000th coin for $9.40 right now easily. However, at what price can he sell his 100,000th coin? -- About $7.50. The more coins he owns, the harder it is to receive equal value when converting into goods (USD in this case).

Ask him if he can afford to hoard them for 5-10 years THEN start selling

That's not hording, that's investing Tongue

.

CoinCidental

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Si vis pacem, para bellum

Quote from: TTBit on August 01, 2012, 02:36:21 PM

Hoarding hurts the individual, not bitcoin in general.

Imagine an individual owns 99,999 bitcoins. He can acquire the 100,000th coin for $9.40 right now easily. However, at what price can he sell his 100,000th coin? -- About $7.50. The more coins he owns, the harder it is to receive equal value when converting into goods (USD in this case).

Ask him if he can afford to hoard them for 5-10 years THEN start selling

Topic: Does hoarding hurt Bitcoin ? (Read 3663 times)