Does this still count? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: ChuckBuck on September 18, 2023, 12:38:29 PM

Regarding hackers, they might reinstall those drivers if they manage to get physical access or if you use any infected devices.

Your disks should also be fully encrypted and password-protected to prevent anyone recovering any data from them in case your machine gets stolen. Remote access shouldn't be a worry in a properly airgapped computer. If it is, then it's not properly airgapped, and you are just adding more risk to the way you store your keys.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 21, 2023, 10:36:29 AM

There may be hardware backdoors, OS zero days, perhaps the BIOS is compromised. Nothing is 100% secure, but if you migrate to an air-gapped environment, you definitely have less things to account for.

Even if there is a vulnerability, there is no way to steal and send that data to wherever it's supposed to go without networking. If you connect USB devices to it to transfer PSBTs, I doubt a malware can be that good to transfer your data to the USB device and then wait for you to connect it to an online machine to transfer the information over the internet.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: satscraper on September 20, 2023, 01:38:55 PM

OP's decision to move to air-gapped device is wise and he can't go wrong with it.

I mean, if we want to be pedantic, things can go wrong even in an air-gapped device. There may be hardware backdoors, OS zero days, perhaps the BIOS is compromised. Nothing is 100% secure, but if you migrate to an air-gapped environment, you definitely have less things to account for.

Quote from: SamReomo on September 21, 2023, 10:23:38 AM

That's true most of the Operating System disable default Bluetooth by default but sometimes the users enable it and don't really care much about it because of the short range it has. Some people enable to it connect Bluetooth speakers and headphones and don't really care much about security when it comes to Bluetooth connection and that's can make things easier for hackers.

I don't understand how things can any worse with bluetooth than the Internet. First things first, the user must approve the wireless connection, it's the default security on Linux AFAIK.

SamReomo

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 672

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: ?? on ??

I get your point, but
1. AFAIK any OS disable bluetooth by default.

That's true most of the Operating System disable default Bluetooth by default but sometimes the users enable it and don't really care much about it because of the short range it has. Some people enable to it connect Bluetooth speakers and headphones and don't really care much about security when it comes to Bluetooth connection and that's can make things easier for hackers.

Quote from: ?? on ??

2. Bluetooth if OP already uninstall all network driver.

The same answer here as well like most people don't really care much about Bluetooth when it comes to security and they may not disable it only to connect some Bluetooth enabled devices.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I also how much antenna could help for going through thick wall or multiple walls.

They don't help that much but if someone has a extender that can cover huge lengths then such extender could in theory go through some of the thick walls as well. This depends on the resources of the hacker that attacks those Bluetooth enable devices but most of the times hackers attack other networks that have good range. In theory it's possible but in reality we haven't heard any such cases so far.

Natalim

hero member

Activity: 3094

Merit: 606

BTC to the MOON in 2019

Remote is just about to happen when you are connected to the internet IMO. It means that we don't need to do any more like moving parts from our computer if we don't have any intention to connect it to the internet as hackers couldn't connect your computer as well. If you are only accessing your wallet offline, that is safe already but if we still do it online on other computers, you are still exposing it to scammers.
I would say that nothing is 100% safe but at least, we did something that would help to have less possibility of getting hacked.

SamReomo

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 672

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: SamReomo on September 18, 2023, 08:58:04 AM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

The hackers won't be able to install the drivers remotely if they aren't close to your device but if the device has Bluetooth connectivity and the hacker is in close distance from your device then in theory that person may be able to connect to your device and install those drivers remotely. However, you really don't have to be worried about that thing if your pc doesn't have any Bluetooth connectivity built into it.

It's not really practical attack though. Besides, typical bluetooth have either short range (10m or less) or very short range (1m or less). So it could be avoided if you don't invite someone you don't trust to your house.

It's still practical if the hackers use some Bluetooth extending antennas to extend the range of their Bluetooth connectivity to few handed meters and that's why in theory those kind of attacks can take place if the hacker is someone who knows those things. But, still these type of attacks have never took place, however it's always better to know about these because sometimes when we underestimate little probability things then that can be a reason for us to be hacked. The Bluetooth technology is very vulnerable to attacks and hackers can easily hack it with right tools.

satscraper

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 1298

Quote from: BVeyron on September 20, 2023, 01:13:57 PM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?
And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

I think that the main vulnerable node is not PC, doesn't matter if its air gapped or not. The seed phrase is the main thing which needs to be secure. Without it there are no possibilities to look into the wallet, regardless of the presence of other software tools... So, I think, its not necessary to protect acounts via air gapping, since the seed phrase is anyway a deal.

Completely wrong statement.

Compromised PC is the biggest threat to the digital assets it holds no matter how secure is the seed phrase.

OP's decision to move to air-gapped device is wise and he can't go wrong with it. The only thing he must consider is to follow ETFbitcoin's advice and install on his old PC the fresh OS which was never connected to Internet.

BVeyron

hero member

Activity: 1680

Merit: 987

#SWGT CERTIK Audited

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?
And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

I think that the main vulnerable node is not PC, doesn't matter if its air gapped or not. The seed phrase is the main thing which needs to be secure. Without it there are no possibilities to look into the wallet, regardless of the presence of other software tools... So, I think, its not necessary to protect acounts via air gapping, since the seed phrase is anyway a deal.

tjtonmoy

sr. member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 366

As long as you keep your device disconnected from the internet wired or wirelessly, that should be considered an air-gapped device. But if it has been connected several times in the past, then maybe there's a possibility that it is not air-gapped anymore. So formatting everything and installing a new operating system is recommended. Simply uninstalling the network drivers will not do the task. OS has this thing of backing up missing components that are required to run smoothly. Network driver is one of them. So try to remove any hardware components as well. That way even the hackers will be unable to do anything.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 19, 2023, 09:49:51 AM

What possible use do you have for Windows?

There are a few things you can do in Windows, which can't be done in Linux, and that's why I haven't completely got rid of Windows. To name two occasions from my experience, Visual Studio and several games which aren't available in any Linux distro. Judging by the history of pooya's posts, he's used to writing C#, which is more or less a Microsoft product as it runs in the .NET framework, so that could be it.

But the reason most people struggle to migrate is habit. If you're used to Microsoft products, then the switch will be uncomfortable at first.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18748

Quote from: pooya87 on September 18, 2023, 11:08:23 AM

This. Funny seeing this topic as I just installed Windows 10 and the nightmare is fresh!

My only question: Why? Tongue

What possible use do you have for Windows?

Quote from: pooya87 on September 18, 2023, 11:08:23 AM

It's as if it's designed to be a spyware lol.

Windows is spyware with an OS built on top, not the other way around.

Quote from: m2017 on September 18, 2023, 12:15:24 PM

but can the input for the RJ-45 connector just be desoldered just in case?

Or just fill it with glue or epoxy or something similar.

Quote from: Casdinyard on September 18, 2023, 12:32:52 PM

While I personally believe in the benefits of air-gapping, I don't think it's that much needed especially if you're careful enough with what you're doing.

You are wrong here. Everyone from bitcoin developers to massive centralized exchanges have had their hot wallets hacked. We hear about hot wallets being hacked literally every day. I'm yet to see a report of a single (properly) airgapped wallet being hacked.

Aikidoka

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 342

Sinbad Mixer: Mix Your BTC Quickly

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?

I think that's good enough. The most important thing is that your device has never been connected to the internet; then you're good to go. However, it would be even better if you physically remove your network components to ensure that your device would never connect to any network.

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

It won't be possible for a hacker to install any network drivers remotely if the PC isn't connected to any network especially if you remove your internal components from it. You'd be fully safe to go in that case.

The only way you could get hacked is if the hacker physically steals your air-gapped PC.

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Well, it's good to see someone taking the initiative, even if the approach might not be entirely right. Removing network drivers alone is insufficient to completely open an air gap. Real air gapping necessitates isolation outdoors. Regarding hackers, they might reinstall those drivers if they manage to get physical access or if you use any infected devices. Pro tip? Take it a step further and separate the networking component. Roll Eyes

Casdinyard

hero member

Activity: 2184

Merit: 891

Leading Crypto Sports Betting and Casino Platform

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?
And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

If you're using an old PC with a pre-installed OS, and then just removed the network drivers, it wouldn't count as air gapping as many others have already told you. You would need to wipe the whole computer off, reinstall a new OS, and from there delete the network drivers to completely air-gap it.While I personally believe in the benefits of air-gapping, I don't think it's that much needed especially if you're careful enough with what you're doing. A bit of an overkill too cause that's a whole pc setup that you're not using for anything besides saving your cryptocurrencies which isn't really something that is cost-effective especially for newbies who are trying bitcoin out for the first time.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: GbitG on September 18, 2023, 10:51:16 AM

But according to my knowledge, the hard part is to keep that air gap device disconnected from the outside world.

There's nothing difficult in that part. If the device has no Wi-Fi, bluetooth, NFC antennas, USB ports etc., then it's by default unable to connect to a network of computers.

Quote from: pooya87 on September 18, 2023, 11:08:23 AM

This. Funny seeing this topic as I just installed Windows 10 and the nightmare is fresh!

Windows 10 is basically the Big Brother's operating system. Security asides, the privacy policy explicitly says that they're collecting telemetry and diagnostic data by default, they're using advertising IDs to track and monetize the OS usage, some of their apps request excessive permissions (which includes personal information), and let's not forget mentioning Cortana! Tongue

ZAINmalik75

hero member

Activity: 1414

Merit: 670

Quote from: AbuBhakar on September 18, 2023, 06:54:54 AM

This count as air gapped device but why not just invest on a hardwaware that is 100% air gapped like Keystone and Elipal instead of relying on an old PC that has the tendency of being not functional in future? You will need to import your seed phrase once your computer broke so why not invest earlier on much reliable air gapped wallet.

You can use this website https://wallets.thebitcoinhole.com/ to check hardware wallet specs comparison to easily decide what to buy.

You gave good advice, but I think there is no need to spend money on extra devices. Because air gap devices are just not connected to the outer world, we can do that at home easily. As the OP said, he disconnected all the drivers, which to me does not matter, but he should change the OS or at least re-install it. And you said he should not use some old PC. I think having an old PC is a good thing to make an augmented device.

As there will be no wireless adapters in it, there will also be no Bluetooth, which makes it less vulnerable to the outer world, and the connectivity will be less to the outside world. The device can be used as an air-gap device or an air-gap wallet. But the hardest part is to follow the best practices so that the device remains in the airgap all the time. Because I have seen cases in which people make dumb decisions and connect their device to the internet for some time and think that their device is still airgap while it is not anymore.

m2017

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1296

Crypto Casino and Sportsbook

Quote from: ABCbits on September 18, 2023, 06:04:57 AM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?

Since you said "old windows PC", does that mean the current OS has been installed long time ago and already connected to internet many times? If yes, people usually don't count it as airgapped PC. At least, you should format the storage, reinstall the OS and install other necessary software (such as wallet software) and never connect to internet again. And it's recommended to remove networking component if it's possible.

What about flashing the BIOS? In theory, malicious programs from hackers could also be installed there.

Networking components are now integrated into the motherboard, unless it is a very old computer in which the network cards were external and removable. How to be in this case? The Wi-Fi module is unlikely to be integrated into the board, but can the input for the RJ-45 connector just be desoldered just in case?

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: Furious 7 on September 18, 2023, 08:43:47 AM

Just do what you have to do, like securing your wallet, securing your seeds and never store anything valuable like seeds on a PC or in the cloud which is vulnerable to hacking.

A properly airgapped computer shouldn't have the hardware components to connect to the internet. So, even if you wanted to store your seed in the cloud using that machine, you wouldn't be able to. If, on the other hand, you import that seed to a hot wallet, it stops being an airgapped cold storage.

Removing connectivity hardware is also a protection against yourself. If you have had your software wallet on your airgapped device for a few years and you feel it's time for an update, you might get lazy and say it doesn't hurt to connect my computer to the internet just once to update it directly on my machine. You can do that if you have the needed hardware. But if you don't, you can't.

Quote from: GbitG on September 18, 2023, 10:51:16 AM

Yes, if you disconnect your PC from the outer world then it will become air-gapped. According to the definition of an air gap device, it should not be connected to the outer world, directly or indirectly. So, you have to make that PC air-gapped but if you were using the same PC while connecting it to the internet then I prefer you to uninstall this window or maybe buy a new HDD or SDD but that's not compulsory.

It's not that common nowadays to find a PC that hasn't been regularly connected to the internet. Reinstalling the OS is therefore recommended regardless of how you used it in the past. The fact that you aren't going to connect a non-reformatted PC to the internet in the future isn't enough. You could have been infected with a clipboard malware, for example. It will be able to replace your copied address even without internet connection. So, don't do it.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 18, 2023, 08:57:42 AM

I would be more concerned about using Windows if I were you. Sure, removing everything that's going to connect your computer to any network is critical, but it's even more concerning to use closed-source OS that is known to having the most vulnerabilities: https://www.beyondtrust.com/blog/entry/microsoft-vulnerabilities-report

Installing a Live OS like Tails would be preferable.

This. Funny seeing this topic as I just installed Windows 10 and the nightmare is fresh! My Firewall list is already filled with two dozen rules trying to manage what I allow connecting to the internet and what I don't. It's as if it's designed to be a spyware lol.

GbitG

sr. member

Activity: 854

Merit: 364

I ❤️Bitcoin

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old Windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air-gapped device or do I still have to remove the hardware networking components from the PC board?
And will it be possible for a hacker to install those drivers remotely?

Yes, if you disconnect your PC from the outer world then it will become air-gapped. According to the definition of an air gap device, it should not be connected to the outer world, directly or indirectly. So, you have to make that PC air-gapped but if you were using the same PC while connecting it to the internet then I prefer you to uninstall this window or maybe buy a new HDD or SDD but that's not compulsory.
After that, install a new operating system. Try not to install Windows OS as it is vulnerable to scams and hacks. And I don't think the deletion of network drivers is necessary but that is a good practice to do, just in case. I am also not a technical dude who works at geekforgeeks but after learning from some tutorials you will be able to make an airgap device at home easily. But according to my knowledge, the hard part is to keep that air gap device disconnected from the outside world.

Ucy

sr. member

Activity: 2674

Merit: 403

Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

Quote from: Mia Chloe on September 18, 2023, 05:42:08 AM

Of course one of the most important things to understand as a newbie in the crypto space is how to secure your digital assets. Therefore I decided to give air gapping a try In other to understand air gapping I tried air gapping an old windows PC today since I didn't know a lot of technical stuff about the internal components of the computer I decided to uninstall all network drivers on the computer I tried doing this from my windows control panel.
Will this still count as an air gapped device or do I still have to remove the hard ware networking components from the PC board?
And will it be possible for an hacker to install those drivers remotely?

That could count as an air-gapped device if your aim is to disable anything that makes it possible to communicate wirelessly especially with the internet, but you can't be sure what is going on behind your back though since the hardware and software are trade secret and closed source. However it's better than openening it up to the world yourself. If somehow it gets hacked after a thorough airgapping you could narrow things down to the manufacturer and software makers. But I doubt they would go that route if they know you are knowledgeable in stuff like that as it would expose what their device and software are capable of doing secretly after thoroughly airgapping it.

Topic: Does this still count? - page 2. (Read 672 times)