Don't spend bitcoin. Not now. - page 20.

Oceat

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Quote from: mersal on October 05, 2019, 07:42:56 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on October 05, 2019, 07:10:15 AM

Quote from: mersal on October 05, 2019, 05:27:25 AM

Don't spend bitcoin for trading,spend it as money that is what I tried to say.If we keep using bitcoin only as trading purpose then it will never become a main stream payment.

The question I'm always asking people with opinions similar to yours is: Why would I spend Bitcoin that appreciates in value and not fiat that depreciates?
I have fiat and Bitcoin, every month I earn fiat and Bitcoin. Fiat at work, bitcoin through a sig campaign. Why would I hold my fiat and spend Bitcoin? This is just unreasonable to me. I've been doing the opposite for years now and it's been great for me.

So everyone see the bitcoin as investment thing over currency? There is no doubt that we can get more value for our bitcoin if we hold it for few more years but imagine if everyone think the same then what will happen? More people claim that bitcoin will not be replacing the fiat and people also will trust it over time if the same thing continues so real adoption will never happen,IMO.

Bitcoin was meant to be spent but people took the advantage of holding it because they knew that the price would appreciate in the future. If Bitcoin is not being spent how would it circulate? Well, most people nowadays find Bitcoin as an investment while some find it as a currency. Although Bitcoin may not work without the help of fiat.

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currently the price of bitcoin is still very cheap if the bitcoin that I have sold at the current price then I will only get a loss, I prefer to wait until bitcoin is difficult to find, it will make the price of bitcoin very expensive because basically bitcoin influencing supply and demand in the market.

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Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

Bitcoin was not made to spend. Not for now. There is a misinterpretation of what Satoshi wrote in the Whitepaper: "A peer-to-peer eletronic cash system". He created bitcoin to be an electronic money system. This is a fact.

Before becoming a monetary system, Bitcoin must be able to preserve value over time. After that, he becomes able to earn society's trust and become a genuine cash.

People accept dollars because they believe that money is still backed by gold (as it was until the end of Bretton Woods), or because (unfortunately) they believe the government will guarantee the value of the currency.

That is, people believe in Dollar because they are sure that money will be at the same value tomorrow. Although this is not true.

99% of the world's population still does not understand, do not know and do not trust Bitcoin. And everything is fine. Bitcoin adoption is a lengthy process that may take decades or centuries to happen.

Bitcoin has never been about just being a simple means of payment. It is not like VISA or Mastercard. He is a legitimate Digital Asset and as such needs to earn trust until it is adopted as money.

Do not spend your Bitcoins. Not now.

We will never know on what value will bitcoin stop. So, if you will just wait for it, you will just end up hoarding your bitcoin. There are times that you must sepnd your bitcoin for emergency purposes. Some investors also need topay their bills amd daily expenses. So, it is up to them when to spend. Just do not spend your bitcoin if ir is not that neccessary.

rdluffy

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Quote from: pieppiep on October 05, 2019, 06:58:59 AM

Besides saving my bitcoin, I also spend my bitcoin by converting into cash because I need that cash to buy my daily needs. That is what most people do with their bitcoin. But yes, we can save or spend depends on our purposes so if someone wants to save their bitcoin, then they can do it. That will happens to people who want to spend bitcoin.

But if all people who own bitcoin don't spend bitcoin, I don't think that bitcoin can grow or reach all people because bitcoin will not moves. It will stay like the beginning when it's invented. By using it, spend or saving, bitcoin will grow until now, and in the future, so it could reach more people so they can help bitcoin to grow more than now.

The beautiful thing of BTC is the fact that BTC is not an imutable thing

You can use BTC to spend for you daily needs, I can use for investment, another person can use for pay someone in another country in minutes with a little fee, another person use to gambling online, a company can use BTC to offer a good investment to their clients and the list can continue

Every kind of situation helps BTC, there's no only one use to BTC

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Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

There is a misinterpretation of what Satoshi wrote in the Whitepaper: "A peer-to-peer eletronic cash system".

I think you are wrong.

Satoshi definitely intended bitcoin to be a payment system. Think about when bitcoin got launched - Januaary 2009 at the height of the Financial Crisis. Governments were forced to bail out the banks because if they didn't payment systems wouldn't work - businesses wouldn't be able to use banks to pay their staff, customers wouldn't be able to use their debit cards to buy stuff, people wouldn't be able to get cash out of banks.

In other words the bailout was entirely due to the threat to the payment system. If there was an alternative payment system, they'd have let the banks go bust and let the shareholders eat the losses. They let Lehman go bust because it was an investment bank and not involved in payment systems.

So Satoshi was definitely trying to create a new payment system that didn't depend on banks. The only trouble is that because there are a limited amount of coins, people are hoarding them instead of spending them. But other more inflationary coins like doge can be used as a payment system instead.

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Quote from: BitHodler on October 05, 2019, 05:47:15 AM

Quote from: sunsilk on October 05, 2019, 04:21:19 AM

Base on my perspective as a holder, I wouldn't really want to spend most of it now but nothing can stop me if I want to spend it for any purpose that I want.

As long as you avoid using exchanges as some sort of an online wallet provider, you will keep that freedom. The reality however is that most of the people nowadays don't have that freedom because of their confidence in exchanges.

Yes, I don't use exchanges as my wallet. I do use them to trade but after absorbing all of those suggestions here that never use an exchange as a wallet provider or even a cold storage, I've obeyed, followed and never done that again.

The trust that the other people is giving to exchanges these days is high because they are known and built their reputation for a very short time of operation just like Binance.

mersal

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Quote from: clickerz on October 05, 2019, 06:29:46 AM

~snip~

You have a point here,if you refill and use to spend bitcoin daily, I think your losses is minimal that you wont feel maybe. But most are hoarding or holding it for long time that it affects the supply. I agree with @OP to not spend btc now, because still its a good accumulation period.Though it will defeat its purpose as a currency but its worthy if you can hold and wait a little bit more.

Holding bitcoin will help the market to go to the moon and that is what we should do right now. When the price of bitcoin is going down, we should get more bitcoins and keep them in a safe wallet like a hardware wallet and always think long term so you will not be tempted to spend bitcoin. Just think about bitcoin for being a retirement fund and not a currency to spend.

Quote from: coolcoinz on October 05, 2019, 07:10:15 AM

Quote from: mersal on October 05, 2019, 05:27:25 AM

Don't spend bitcoin for trading,spend it as money that is what I tried to say.If we keep using bitcoin only as trading purpose then it will never become a main stream payment.

The question I'm always asking people with opinions similar to yours is: Why would I spend Bitcoin that appreciates in value and not fiat that depreciates?
I have fiat and Bitcoin, every month I earn fiat and Bitcoin. Fiat at work, bitcoin through a sig campaign. Why would I hold my fiat and spend Bitcoin? This is just unreasonable to me. I've been doing the opposite for years now and it's been great for me.

So everyone see the bitcoin as investment thing over currency? There is no doubt that we can get more value for our bitcoin if we hold it for few more years but imagine if everyone think the same then what will happen? More people claim that bitcoin will not be replacing the fiat and people also will trust it over time if the same thing continues so real adoption will never happen,IMO.

TIDOVEE

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Not now! agreed!
It is made for investment! Agreed!
But whether stored, whether invested, it will be spend.
Bitcoin is best for investment because it's value is not stable.but in one way or the other no one keeps it forever.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: mersal on October 05, 2019, 05:27:25 AM

Don't spend bitcoin for trading,spend it as money that is what I tried to say.If we keep using bitcoin only as trading purpose then it will never become a main stream payment.

The question I'm always asking people with opinions similar to yours is: Why would I spend Bitcoin that appreciates in value and not fiat that depreciates?
I have fiat and Bitcoin, every month I earn fiat and Bitcoin. Fiat at work, bitcoin through a sig campaign. Why would I hold my fiat and spend Bitcoin? This is just unreasonable to me. I've been doing the opposite for years now and it's been great for me.

pieppiep

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Besides saving my bitcoin, I also spend my bitcoin by converting into cash because I need that cash to buy my daily needs. That is what most people do with their bitcoin. But yes, we can save or spend depends on our purposes so if someone wants to save their bitcoin, then they can do it. That will happens to people who want to spend bitcoin.

But if all people who own bitcoin don't spend bitcoin, I don't think that bitcoin can grow or reach all people because bitcoin will not moves. It will stay like the beginning when it's invented. By using it, spend or saving, bitcoin will grow until now, and in the future, so it could reach more people so they can help bitcoin to grow more than now.

SummerBliss

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Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

People accept dollars because they believe that money is still backed by gold (as it was until the end of Bretton Woods), or because (unfortunately) they believe the government will guarantee the value of the currency.
That is, people believe in Dollar because they are sure that money will be at the same value tomorrow. Although this is not true.

This is not the right way to think. Bitcoin and dollar, both are same. The absolute value of both doesn't change. If I keep 1 USD today, it will remain 1 USD tomorrow. Similarly if we 1 BTC today, it will remain 1 BTC tomorrow. See there is no difference between the two!
But what mistake people do, they compare absolute value of USD with the relative value of BTC. Like Bitcoin, all currencies fluctuate in relation to one another. Like, BTC value fluctuates from $8000 to $8200 in a day, the value of USD also fluctuates in relation to other coins. For example, 1 USD worth 1.33 CAD today may fluctuate to 1.35 CAD tomorrow. Bitcoin's price is also like forex.

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Quote

Bitcoin was not made to spend. Not for now. There is a misinterpretation of what Satoshi wrote in the Whitepaper: "A peer-to-peer eletronic cash system". He created bitcoin to be an electronic money system. This is a fact.

It's a fact and it's a gift for us and the best way to honor its creator is to use it as what it is intended for and that is by peer to peer transaction through buying and selling

Quote

99% of the world's population still does not understand, do not know and do not trust Bitcoin. And everything is fine. Bitcoin adoption is a lengthy process that may take decades or centuries to happen.

It's not 995 anymore I think it's higher because of the rapid adoption that Bitcoin is now ongoing, and it's only a matter of time

Quote

Do not spend your Bitcoins. Not now.

If we are going to do this it will defeat it is going to defeat the purpose on why Satoshi created Bitcoin

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Quote from: mersal on October 05, 2019, 05:27:25 AM

Quote from: Oceat on October 04, 2019, 03:19:34 PM

Quote from: mersal on October 04, 2019, 01:42:49 PM

Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

Do not spend your Bitcoins. Not now.

So when? After it reaches some value!

Most people not spending their bitcoins anyway but they should spend if there is possibility for them to spend then only the adoption happens if everyone thins bitcoin should not be spend then this fact will stuck forever which could ruin the intention of system at some point.

First of all, if Bitcoin is not being spent do you think that the price would move up to this state? Even if there are miners who already existed it is still not enough to move the price of Bitcoin. The supply and demand are the ones that making the price moves and that is the start of adoption since people started to discover it, as more and more merchants are accepting Bitcoin.

Don't spend bitcoin for trading,spend it as money that is what I tried to say.If we keep using bitcoin only as trading purpose then it will never become a main stream payment.

You have a point here,if you refill and use to spend bitcoin daily, I think your losses is minimal that you wont feel maybe. But most are hoarding or holding it for long time that it affects the supply. I agree with @OP to not spend btc now, because still its a good accumulation period.Though it will defeat its purpose as a currency but its worthy if you can hold and wait a little bit more.

BitHodler

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Quote from: sunsilk on October 05, 2019, 04:21:19 AM

Base on my perspective as a holder, I wouldn't really want to spend most of it now but nothing can stop me if I want to spend it for any purpose that I want.

As long as you avoid using exchanges as some sort of an online wallet provider, you will keep that freedom. The reality however is that most of the people nowadays don't have that freedom because of their confidence in exchanges.

I can somewhat understand that it's not easy to get starting in crypto with how different it is from what they are used to with banks, but they should have done that research before buying any cryptocurrency.

Banks have a proven trackrecord and generally don't screw you over, while crypto exchanges have done nothing but screw you over, where on top of that, exchanges are continuously being targeted by hackers because of the coins they store.

mersal

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Quote from: Oceat on October 04, 2019, 03:19:34 PM

Quote from: mersal on October 04, 2019, 01:42:49 PM

Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

Do not spend your Bitcoins. Not now.

So when? After it reaches some value!

Most people not spending their bitcoins anyway but they should spend if there is possibility for them to spend then only the adoption happens if everyone thins bitcoin should not be spend then this fact will stuck forever which could ruin the intention of system at some point.

First of all, if Bitcoin is not being spent do you think that the price would move up to this state? Even if there are miners who already existed it is still not enough to move the price of Bitcoin. The supply and demand are the ones that making the price moves and that is the start of adoption since people started to discover it, as more and more merchants are accepting Bitcoin.

Don't spend bitcoin for trading,spend it as money that is what I tried to say.If we keep using bitcoin only as trading purpose then it will never become a main stream payment.

sunsilk

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In able for bitcoin to be adopted, it has to be used. Everyone holder would say that don't spend our bitcoins because we are foreseeing the future of it. But the whitepaper of satoshi made is perfect and correct of what bitcoin used to be.

The trust of what bitcoin is getting now is increasing overtime. Base on my perspective as a holder, I wouldn't really want to spend most of it now but nothing can stop me if I want to spend it for any purpose that I want.

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Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

There is a misinterpretation of what Satoshi wrote in the Whitepaper: "A peer-to-peer eletronic cash system".

I don't think that there is a misinterpretation about this. The very essence why Satoshi wrote it that way is for us to be able to have convenience in using electronic cash payment transactions same as we are using fiat money. So definitely, we are meant to use it and not just to keep it to ourselves.

How can other people gain their trust in adopting bitcoin if we, the ones who already know about bitcoin, won't be able to use it or spend it? By using or spending it, we are giving awareness so more people will be able to use it as well.

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*face palm* while reading OP's post

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 04, 2019, 01:19:51 PM

That's a little ridiculous thinking. So you suggest to not spend Bitcoin until it becomes trusted enough.

If no one uses Bitcoin, how do you want the ecosystem to develop? If there is no ecosystem people won't get interested in and Bitcoin may become a currency like the currency for Second Life (the video game (?) with its currency, not sure if I'm right)

The dollar is based on trust, the day people no longer trust, USD will become the new Zimbabwe dollar, yes it's a fact but if Bitcoin needs to earn people's trust, it can't just happen without doing anything.

I can't stop laughing, lol.

I agree with you, what is the point of earning bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies if we are not going to use it, I don't want to starve to death because of this nonsense suggestion OP has. We are earning bitcoins and we are spending it anytime we want, anywhere we want, because it is like fiat, we need it to survive, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think OP's brain is the one he must not using when he posted this topic (please forgive me).

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Quote from: DBronze98 on October 05, 2019, 12:02:40 AM

Yes, and I also object to monetization. Many people are always interested in bitcoin being a common currency, when the value of bitcoin increases and they will sell bitcoins for profit. But they do not know the consequences behind that is the daily loss when the value of bitcoin is not stable. It is always highly volatile and in the world, no country accepts such a common currency.

A common currency is a type of currency that you can use in some part of the world and one of the example for that currency is the US Dollar and that is one of the signs that the other countries are accepting foreign currency and bitcoin could be the next common currency since there is a lot of currency converter online that they could use to convert the value of bitcoin according to the cost of their goods.

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Quote from: lbassotto on October 04, 2019, 12:37:27 PM

Bitcoin was not made to spend. Not for now. There is a misinterpretation of what Satoshi wrote in the Whitepaper: "A peer-to-peer eletronic cash system". He created bitcoin to be an electronic money system. This is a fact.

Before becoming a monetary system, Bitcoin must be able to preserve value over time. After that, he becomes able to earn society's trust and become a genuine cash.

People accept dollars because they believe that money is still backed by gold (as it was until the end of Bretton Woods), or because (unfortunately) they believe the government will guarantee the value of the currency.

That is, people believe in Dollar because they are sure that money will be at the same value tomorrow. Although this is not true.

99% of the world's population still does not understand, do not know and do not trust Bitcoin. And everything is fine. Bitcoin adoption is a lengthy process that may take decades or centuries to happen.

Bitcoin has never been about just being a simple means of payment. It is not like VISA or Mastercard. He is a legitimate Digital Asset and as such needs to earn trust until it is adopted as money.

Do not spend your Bitcoins. Not now.

The reason why bitcoin is used for exchanges is to let it adapt itself to the world. It was meant to be speant, so that people all over the world can feel its possible influence for the current financial market. Holding the coins is fine and all, but not spending them rill everyone could accept them is just ridiculous. You basically just said to stop the circulation of bitcoin itself. Imagine stopping the circulation of dollars around the globe, mayhem would occur right? Cause the world just lost a currency used by most people. Even thought the effects of holding bitcoin wont be as worse as what would happen in the said situation, it still gives off a negative effect for the adaptation and progress of bitcoin in the market.

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