Don't trade your Bitcoin like Laszlo Hanyecz - page 2.

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Quote from: DapanasFruit on May 26, 2022, 09:04:47 PM

Laszlo Hanyecz very much made into the Bitcoin history book as one of the first to prove that BTC can be used like an ordinary money. Now, had I been in his place i would not just buy pizza but also some coffee and maybe eve donuts with my BTC mined. We have many things to thank this man for taking the risks and for finding that pizza patrol for the transaction. And that is why we have an annual Bitcoin Pizza Day to honor the event, honor the man and honor Bitcoin. I am wondering what kind of pizzas were bought back then...

In the history of bitcoin we don't know the identity of Satoshi. Atleast we've seen the person who have given value to the marvelous innovation. He mentioned it was two large pizzas. I would like to remind people not to donate anyone requesting in the name of Laszlo Hanyecz. Came across a Twitter account requesting donation.

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What he did was mark a turning point in bitcoin's history, I really can't understand what you're thinking to be able to say these words. Nowadays the value of bitcoins has increased so much that most people will choose to hold rather than use them but you should remember the ultimate goal of holding is still to use bitcoins only when you use them will bitcoins really be of value to you.

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Laszlo Hanyecz very much made into the Bitcoin history book as one of the first to prove that BTC can be used like an ordinary money. Now, had I been in his place i would not just buy pizza but also some coffee and maybe eve donuts with my BTC mined. We have many things to thank this man for taking the risks and for finding that pizza patrol for the transaction. And that is why we have an annual Bitcoin Pizza Day to honor the event, honor the man and honor Bitcoin. I am wondering what kind of pizzas were bought back then...

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Quote from: witcher_sense on May 25, 2022, 01:02:50 AM

Quote from: nullama on May 24, 2022, 06:49:36 PM

He definitely could and had been buying pizza with fiat all the time. Laszlo offered to buy pizzas for Bitcoin because it had never been done before.

Are you sure? How did Laszlo Hanyecz know that no one had done this before? How can we know that Laszlo Hanyecz was the first to exchange bitcoin for real goods? Yes, perhaps he was the first to make a public offer, but there could have been thousands of private deals before Laszlo in which bitcoin was broadly involved. Although bitcoin didn't yet have an "official" price set by the market, it still could have been used in the barter economy among those who understood bitcoin should have some value because of its peculiarities. Perhaps, people, who really believed in bitcoin when it had no market price, didn't want to announce they were participating in the bitcoin economy because they valued their privacy, which is why we have never heard of them. But we definitely have heard of Laszlo who has a public profile and is registered under his real name. If Satoshi Nakamoto, a mysterious creator of Bitcoin, has said he just exchanged his bitcoin for pizza, would you believe him? I doubt it since there is no way to verify that. But in the case of Laszlo, it is a lot easier to verify he had bought something because everything about him is public information.

Sometimes it doesn't matter who is actually the first but who gets the more exposure. It's very likely that someone else bought something physical before Laszlo, but he started a thread on this forum making his offer open to anyone, that's the difference. And let's not forget that this pizza exchange became famous after a while especially because of the value off the 10k bitcoins.

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Quote from: PepeLapiu on May 24, 2022, 07:09:32 PM

Lazslo wrote the following soon after:

Quote

This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). If anyone is interested please let me know.

You think the offer is still valid? I'll even throw in extra cheese and stuffed crust.

No, the offer is no longer valid (you should have read the thread further, btw). Shortly after this successful trade, the price of bitcoin spiked sharply, so Laszlo wrote this:

Quote

Well I didn't expect this to be so popular but I can't really afford to keep doing it since I can't generate thousands of coins a day anymore Smiley Thanks to everyone who bought me pizza already but I'm kind of holding off on doing any more of these for now.

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Quote from: PepeLapiu on May 24, 2022, 07:09:32 PM

Lazslo wrote the following soon after:

Quote

This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). If anyone is interested please let me know.

You think the offer is still valid? I'll even throw in extra cheese and stuffed crust.

Valid? in what sense? That it's valid until now? The trade was done years ago and the Laszlo already ate those pizzas and paid those 10k bitcoins already.
To this date, nobody would give you 10k bitcoins = $295M for those pizzas. The value before was entirely different to today's value and if that's what you're asking if it's still valid today, you're the one wishing for it because it's already a history.

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on May 24, 2022, 09:59:43 PM

It was not just an ordinary trade. It was paid in exchange for a pizza. Although the pizza was actually bought by someone else who paid fiat money to Papa John's, it was actually delivered to Laszlo after paying Bitcoin to the person who made the purchase.

It may sound absurd today, but it was a good use during the time the transaction was made. And Laszlo himself didn't regret it. He loved pizza and made use of his Bitcoin which couldn't bought you anything at that time.

Laszlo was the man! He made it happen!

At that time it was a really low price to pay for what publicity this little purchase got. It showed people around the world that money is what you agree it is. That you don't need the government to tell you what you can use as a form of money and that not much work or effort is needed to be able to transact using bitcoin. I'm also sure he did not spend all his coins to do it, so it's not like he lost anything. He used it to do good.
We'll never know if Bitcoin would be where it is now without people like him who, like you said, made it happen.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on May 24, 2022, 01:28:55 AM

You are absolutely wrong!

Bitcoin is not an investment option, it was developed by Satoshi Nakamoto to be a currency. A currency must be used for it to have value ..and for it to gain value over time. It is the speculators in Bitcoin that are destroying it, because they pump the price..take profits and then dump it again.

This "Pump n Dump" strategy are causing extreme volatility that are making it almost impossible for people to use it as a Currency. (A currency needs stability)

Stop looking at Bitcoin as a "Commodity" ....and focus on it as being a "Currency" ....and you will get more benefits from it. Wink

Unfortunately majority of the crypto world see it as a commodity or an asset and not see it as a currency. I have been earning and spending bitcoin for over 5 years now, and it has been amazing for me and if everyone used it the same way then not only we would have bitcoin at a higher price, but we would also have bitcoin accepted all over the world.

The idea that it is a currency has been abandoned long time ago, people have been looking at it like it is something we should be ignoring at all times, and that is a very sad situation, we should see it as a currency like you said, and I have been using it like a currency too, but unfortunately we haven't gotten there yet with millions of people in the crypto world.

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Quote from: witcher_sense on May 25, 2022, 01:02:50 AM

Quote from: nullama on May 24, 2022, 06:49:36 PM

He definitely could and had been buying pizza with fiat all the time. Laszlo offered to buy pizzas for Bitcoin because it had never been done before.

Are you sure? How did Laszlo Hanyecz know that no one had done this before? How can we know that Laszlo Hanyecz was the first to exchange bitcoin for real goods? Yes, perhaps he was the first to make a public offer, but there could have been thousands of private deals before Laszlo in which bitcoin was broadly involved. Although bitcoin didn't yet have an "official" price set by the market, it still could have been used in the barter economy among those who understood bitcoin should have some value because of its peculiarities. Perhaps, people, who really believed in bitcoin when it had no market price, didn't want to announce they were participating in the bitcoin economy because they valued their privacy, which is why we have never heard of them. But we definitely have heard of Laszlo who has a public profile and is registered under his real name. If Satoshi Nakamoto, a mysterious creator of Bitcoin, has said he just exchanged his bitcoin for pizza, would you believe him? I doubt it since there is no way to verify that. But in the case of Laszlo, it is a lot easier to verify he had bought something because everything about him is public information.

What you say is correct. Usually people refer to the first occurrence of something based on the first public occurrence of that thing. It could have happened before, but no one knows. If suddenly some evidence appears that someone else bought something with Bitcoin before Laszlo, then the public record would be updated to point to that transaction as the first.

You could easily verify that Satoshi bought a pizza, you would only need to have a signed message with the address that paid for it.

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Quote from: nullama on May 24, 2022, 06:49:36 PM

He definitely could and had been buying pizza with fiat all the time. Laszlo offered to buy pizzas for Bitcoin because it had never been done before.

Are you sure? How did Laszlo Hanyecz know that no one had done this before? How can we know that Laszlo Hanyecz was the first to exchange bitcoin for real goods? Yes, perhaps he was the first to make a public offer, but there could have been thousands of private deals before Laszlo in which bitcoin was broadly involved. Although bitcoin didn't yet have an "official" price set by the market, it still could have been used in the barter economy among those who understood bitcoin should have some value because of its peculiarities. Perhaps, people, who really believed in bitcoin when it had no market price, didn't want to announce they were participating in the bitcoin economy because they valued their privacy, which is why we have never heard of them. But we definitely have heard of Laszlo who has a public profile and is registered under his real name. If Satoshi Nakamoto, a mysterious creator of Bitcoin, has said he just exchanged his bitcoin for pizza, would you believe him? I doubt it since there is no way to verify that. But in the case of Laszlo, it is a lot easier to verify he had bought something because everything about him is public information.

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Quote from: Johnlomape on May 22, 2022, 08:28:06 AM

A big lesson
Do you know your Bitcoin asset can worth more than you could ever image in time? Hodl and buy more since price is down and await the future to decide.
I'm a Bitcoin optimist!

Lesson?
I'm holding Bitcoins, so I'm not against holding it, but to hold it to the point that you don't need to spend it? Nahhh I don't think that's correct.

That is why it is called crypto "currency" because it is meant to be spent and not to hold forever. Many see Bitcoin as an asset more than a currency and there's nothing wrong with it, I think since many are doing it, but it doesn't mean that we will not spend it at all.

One thing more is that Lazlo didn't think that Bitcoin will go up this high. Did anybody see it coming? That Bitcoin will reach 5 digits at that time when it is relatively new? He just showed that Bitcoins can be used for transactions as long as there is somebody who wants to accept it. Also, don't focus on Lazlo. Ask yourself as well. What did the receiver do to the Bitcoins he got from Lazlo? For sure, he also sold it at a higher price.

You are an optimist, but you're implying to us that it is better to just hold and buy rather than hold, buy and spend it.

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It was not just an ordinary trade. It was paid in exchange for a pizza. Although the pizza was actually bought by someone else who paid fiat money to Papa John's, it was actually delivered to Laszlo after paying Bitcoin to the person who made the purchase.

It may sound absurd today, but it was a good use during the time the transaction was made. And Laszlo himself didn't regret it. He loved pizza and made use of his Bitcoin which couldn't bought you anything at that time.

Laszlo was the man! He made it happen!

PepeLapiu

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Quote from: Killredillla on May 24, 2022, 07:56:26 PM

Quote from: Johnlomape on May 22, 2022, 08:28:06 AM

A big lesson
Do you know your Bitcoin asset can worth more than you could ever image in time? Hodl and buy more since price is down and await the future to decide.
I'm a Bitcoin optimist!

It was impossible for him to know that bitcoin will reach 69k atm at that time even if he have held those bitcoins he probably wouldnt wait until 69k was reached to sell them,selling at 100/1000$ range would still make him rich.

Sooooo.....it's not a valid offer anymore?
I can't send him a pizza for 10,000 BTC anymore?
What a scam! Lol

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Quote from: Johnlomape on May 22, 2022, 08:28:06 AM

A big lesson
Do you know your Bitcoin asset can worth more than you could ever image in time? Hodl and buy more since price is down and await the future to decide.
I'm a Bitcoin optimist!

It was impossible for him to know that bitcoin will reach 69k atm at that time even if he have held those bitcoins he probably wouldnt wait until 69k was reached to sell them,selling at 100/1000$ range would still make him rich.

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Quote from: PepeLapiu on May 24, 2022, 07:09:32 PM

Lazslo wrote the following soon after:

Quote

This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). If anyone is interested please let me know.

You think the offer is still valid? I'll even throw in extra cheese and stuffed crust.

At the time that was a pretty convenient offer, because you could basically buy Bitcoins with a credit card. It was very difficult to buy Bitcoin around 2010.

PepeLapiu

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Lazslo wrote the following soon after:

Quote

This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). If anyone is interested please let me know.

You think the offer is still valid? I'll even throw in extra cheese and stuffed crust.

nullama

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Quote from: witcher_sense on May 24, 2022, 02:10:16 AM

Therefore, if Laszlo Hanyecz had been a rational actor, he would have bought his pizza for fiat currency, not precious Bitcoin. Either he didn't believe Bitcoin had the potential to transform into something more valuable than government-printed paper, or he had some other motives to spend Bitcoin. We never know that. Either way, his example clearly showed the world that "magic internet currency" is really what it claims to be: a decentralized digital means to facilitate exchanges between two parties.

He definitely could and had been buying pizza with fiat all the time. Laszlo offered to buy pizzas for Bitcoin because it had never been done before.

Quote from: laszlo on May 21, 2010, 04:33:45 PM

I just think it would be interesting if I could say that I paid for a pizza in bitcoins

Here are some photos of the original bitcoin pizza: http://web.archive.org/web/20180524011500/http://eclipse.heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/pizza/

Of course he believed and still believes in Bitcoin, he was here from almost the beginning, he mined lots of bitcoins, published the source code of the first GPU miner, and continued to buy pizzas with bitcoin, he even bought more with lightning when that was new:

Quote from: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2018-February/001044.html

I wanted to try out a real trade using lightning network. I don't know of any pizza places near me that accept lightning bitcoin yet but a friend from London agreed to do it and he sub contracted out the pizza delivery to a local shop.
In short, I paid bitcoin using the lightning network and he arranged for pizza to be delivered to me. In this trade my friend is just a middle man that is taking the risk on accepting lightning payments, but it demonstrates the basic premise of how this works for everyday transactions. It could just as well be the pizza shop accepting the payment directly with their own lightning node.

Here are some photos of the lightning pizza: http://web.archive.org/web/20211102020332/eclipse.heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/lightning-pizza/

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Quote from: witcher_sense on May 24, 2022, 02:10:16 AM

Therefore, if Laszlo Hanyecz had been a rational actor, he would have bought his pizza for fiat currency, not precious Bitcoin. Either he didn't believe Bitcoin had the potential to transform into something more valuable than government-printed paper, or he had some other motives to spend Bitcoin. We never know that. Either way, his example clearly showed the world that "magic internet currency" is really what it claims to be: a decentralized digital means to facilitate exchanges between two parties.

That is the thing, Bitcoin was not all that precious at the time. In fact, I think Laszlo got a pretty good deal on his bitcoins. According to him, he mined thousands of bitcoins a day and I do not believe he spent more on electricity than buying these two pizzas. Check out this thread, SmokeTooMuch tried to sell 10,000 bitcoins at auction for an initial $ 50 bid just a few months before and no one bid on it. Probably because anyone with an decent PC could mine that much bitcoin on their own in a matter of days.

The thing Laszlo did actually sparked the market for bitcoin, as just a few months later the price of bitcoin had soared to $ 0.25 (which was absolutely unthinkable at the time). And a few months after that, in February of the following year, bitcoin reached its first milestone when the value of one bitcoin equaled that of the US dollar.

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Quote from: PepeLapiu on May 22, 2022, 09:49:57 AM

People tend to keep what is valuable to them and spend away what they consider less valuable. So bitcoin will at some point be used to buy coffee. We just gave to wait until your useless fiat becomes so worthless that you still will want to get rod of it, but nobody will want it.
And that is what money is.

Naturally, it is just economically rational to spend "overpriced" money (for example, government-issued currency with artificial value) and keep "underpriced" money such as Bitcoin, the value of which is dictated by natural laws of supply and demand. If something is overvalued, it tends to fall in terms of purchasing power; and it also works the other way around, which is why bitcoin is consistently growing, but fiat is inevitably falling. Therefore, if Laszlo Hanyecz had been a rational actor, he would have bought his pizza for fiat currency, not precious Bitcoin. Either he didn't believe Bitcoin had the potential to transform into something more valuable than government-printed paper, or he had some other motives to spend Bitcoin. We never know that. Either way, his example clearly showed the world that "magic internet currency" is really what it claims to be: a decentralized digital means to facilitate exchanges between two parties.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on May 24, 2022, 01:28:55 AM

You are absolutely wrong!

Bitcoin is not an investment option, it was developed by Satoshi Nakamoto to be a currency. A currency must be used for it to have value ..and for it to gain value over time. It is the speculators in Bitcoin that are destroying it, because they pump the price..take profits and then dump it again.

This "Pump n Dump" strategy are causing extreme volatility that are making it almost impossible for people to use it as a Currency. (A currency needs stability)

Stop looking at Bitcoin as a "Commodity" ....and focus on it as being a "Currency" ....and you will get more benefits from it. Wink

Sorry but I disagree.
The vast majority of people buy something when they see it going up, which causes it to keep going up. And the jump to panic sell when they see it drop, which causes it to keep dropping.
The irrational majority of the population is what causes stuff to get volatile.
The few who can buy when the price is low and sell when the price Iis high, they are the only ones who help stabilize the price.
You are likely part of the irrational 95%. And you are angry or jealous at those who make money at it while you buy high and sell low.

And money (not currency, two different things) is used to dowhatever you want to do with it.
If you can sit on your money and make it grow, or merelely save for a rainy day, good for you.

If you want to buy a pizza with it, good for you. If you want to invest it, or speculate with it, good for you
Currency, on the other hand is a fraud pretending to be money. And offer forced on you.

Topic: Don't trade your Bitcoin like Laszlo Hanyecz - page 2. (Read 738 times)