Don't trust web wallets, don't trust exchanges, then where to trade? - page 2.

shield132

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Quote from: mk4 on February 07, 2021, 10:51:45 AM

Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

That's why I asked what to do and if you trade with 5% of your total holdings, even if you have high capital, it will be just a waste of time and playing for nothing.

Lol not really. It's only a waste of time if you don't make enough money trading to pay for the transaction fees.

Wanted to transfer 0.7 Bitcoin and electrum wallet was warning me that the recommended fee would be higher than 5.7% of the initial amount. I guess 5% of 0.7 bitcoin isn't small and it's a pretty good profit in USD if we consider the amount. I think it's illogical to pay that much fees and some exchanges somehow don't accept SegWit transfers (that's another embarrassment). The idea of this thread is not to push people to leave their funds on exchanges. I just want to find the "Golden Ratio" (sweet spot).

Yogee
Atomic swap sounds well, I'll have a look at it, thanks.

KaratX

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Web wallets are a big No for me, not your keys not your coins , it's as simple as that, the reason why people could warn you not to trust exchanges is never to leave your assets on them, hacks isn't going to warn you when coming, it can happen at anything so they are right, trade on top exchanges and move your funds back into your wallet

Ultegra134

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Quote from: shield132 on February 06, 2021, 05:40:06 PM

Not your keys - not your coins, that's 100% true but for some people, I would say: Even your keys - not your coins.

Okay, woud love to hear opinion about this from the community members.

As we know and from every logic, we shouldn't trust web wallets and also exchanges. There were a lot of accidents when exchanges were hacked and people lost their coins. Some may say - don't keep your coins at exchanges for a long time but I would say that everything happens in seconds, maybe you had access on your coins at exchanges while you were replying to this thread but once you submitted the post, exchange got hacked and coins were lost, everything happens in seconds, otherwise loss wouldn't occur.

So, how do you trade in these cases? Only p2p exchanges? But it's not flexible and you may miss a good time frames where you could profit 1-2% of your balance.

I've also had the same question as you. I've been hearing not to hold coins (Or even Fiat balance) in exchanges, for safety concerns, I don't see how you can actually do that. Not only that, but I find it a waste of time and money to have both your balance and your coins transferred all the time.

I've always used online wallets in the past (BitGo and Blockchain) and never had any issues. Currently, I have some money on an exchange and some Bitcoin, I keep investing/trading both, back and forth throughout the week, I don't see how I could actually keep them "offline". I think, that if you are using reputable sites, don't sign up on any stupid phising or scam sites, use 2FA, you'll be good to go. I might be wrong though, that's just my 2 cents.

sheenshane

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Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

No one knows when exchange will be hacked, even if you risk and leave funds on exchange for some hours, there is a chance that it will be hacked and your funds will be stolen.

This is the reason why we should choose a good and reliable exchange to trade, if you're deciding to trade, you must know those consequences waiting ahead and risk is a part of it. Upon choosing to exchange and deposit your fund as capital, it means you already trusted them for any cost, for better and for worst. Cheesy

How many exchanges offer this service? (SAFU) Secure Asset Fund for Users , I think this will have a guarantee to traders to have a safe fund, but it doesn't mean, leave your fund and let sleep on the exchange. After trading, don't leave your fund on an exchange platform that you have used, if you will see net profit was there and already covered by the withdrawal fees, you can withdraw them all.

So basically, we shouldn't leave fund on CEXs and custodial wallet, the line that you've used, Not your key, Not your coin is a great warning to all newbies who wanted to join the crypto space.

mk4

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Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

No one knows when exchange will be hacked, even if you risk and leave funds on exchange for some hours, there is a chance that it will be hacked and your funds will be stolen.

I mean, obviously. It's a risk you need to take if you actually want to take advantage of the liquidity of centralized exchanges. If you don't want to risk it, pretty simple- don't trade.

Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

And if you deposit/withdraw money on each trade, I hugely doubt you'll get any profit because nowadays there are a huge fees on transaction

Never said you had to withdraw after literally every trade. I said "just withdraw the funds when you plan on stopping trading for a while and such".

Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

and everytime I opened my Electrum wallet, it was always warning me that fee was very high. Paying 5% of your initial capital in bitcoin transaction fees can't bring you a profit in trading.

If you only trade with a $50 trading allocation, then sure.

Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2021, 10:22:14 AM

That's why I asked what to do and if you trade with 5% of your total holdings, even if you have high capital, it will be just a waste of time and playing for nothing.

Lol not really. It's only a waste of time if you don't make enough money trading to pay for the transaction fees.

shield132

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Quote from: mk4 on February 07, 2021, 04:19:52 AM

It's not that you shouldn't be using exchanges per se, it's just that you shouldn't leave your entire holdings on exchanges(which surprisingly a lot of people still do). If you trade with like 5% of your total holdings, then only leave that 5% on exchanges. And just withdraw the funds when you plan on stopping trading for a while and such.

No one knows when exchange will be hacked, even if you risk and leave funds on exchange for some hours, there is a chance that it will be hacked and your funds will be stolen. And if you deposit/withdraw money on each trade, I hugely doubt you'll get any profit because nowadays there are a huge fees on transaction and everytime I opened my Electrum wallet, it was always warning me that fee was very high. Paying 5% of your initial capital in bitcoin transaction fees can't bring you a profit in trading. That's why I asked what to do and if you trade with 5% of your total holdings, even if you have high capital, it will be just a waste of time and playing for nothing.

mersal

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Quote from: shield132 on February 06, 2021, 05:40:06 PM

So, how do you trade in these cases? Only p2p exchanges? But it's not flexible and you may miss a good time frames where you could profit 1-2% of your balance.

Use exchange for trading not for storing that is the actual content of not your keys, not your cryptos. But if we are going to stop the centralized exchanges then you will lose profits as a trader so you have to accept such risk that exchanges can be hacked at any time. So just move funds to your wallet if you are not going to trade in the near future.

For example, you are trading at Binance and the exchanges got hacked where you had few thousands worth of cryptos but the exchange itself claim that all the users funds were protected by SAFU which means the exchange will take the responsibility for the hack and they will pay the users from their pockets.

bL4nkcode

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Limited in number. Limitless in potential.

These lines are only applicable when people stores funds to exchanges and custodial wallets.

When day trading, trader should accept those risks, and even use multiple exchange to diversify and reduce these risks. Only use trusted platform with insurance or I guess some regulatory function as well.

mk4

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It's not that you shouldn't be using exchanges per se, it's just that you shouldn't leave your entire holdings on exchanges(which surprisingly a lot of people still do). If you trade with like 5% of your total holdings, then only leave that 5% on exchanges. And just withdraw the funds when you plan on stopping trading for a while and such.

Marvelman

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I never really trust an exchange. You don't know if they're going to crash and lose your money, you don't know if they're going to go out of business, or if they have a sudden inexplicable bug in their system. P2P trading with other people is the safest way to trade, imho.

joniboini

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Separate your funds into multiple baskets, one of them for trading. Be prepared to lost everything. Deposit to "reputable" exchanges, make your trades, withdraw your profit regularly. If the exchange starts to be a pain in the ass, move to another platform.

If you're not a trader and just want to exchange Bitcoin for fiat, use P2P. If there's a local exchange in your country and it is somewhat decent, use them but don't store your Bitcoin. Only deposit if you want to exchange. That's how I do it at least, and so far fortunately there's no problem.

Yogee

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Atomic swaps are becoming more popular and we may see greater volume soon on these exchanges with all the crypto regulations forced on centralized exchanges.

You can check https://www.xlitewallet.com/ It supports BTC, DASH, LTC, DOGE, SYS, BLOCK, and PIVX. It claims to have no centralized servers and secured by decentralized service nodes. The design also looks fine based on the images from the site.

ololajulo

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SOL.BIOKRIPT.COM

Quote from: shield132 on February 06, 2021, 05:40:06 PM

Not your keys - not your coins, that's 100% true but for some people, I would say: Even your keys - not your coins.

Okay, woud love to hear opinion about this from the community members.

As we know and from every logic, we shouldn't trust web wallets and also exchanges. There were a lot of accidents when exchanges were hacked and people lost their coins. Some may say - don't keep your coins at exchanges for a long time but I would say that everything happens in seconds, maybe you had access on your coins at exchanges while you were replying to this thread but once you submitted the post, exchange got hacked and coins were lost, everything happens in seconds, otherwise loss wouldn't occur.

So, how do you trade in these cases? Only p2p exchanges? But it's not flexible and you may miss a good time frames where you could profit 1-2% of your balance.

The advice on keeping coin only on private wallet had declined although exchanges are not the safest but the exchanges had give traders confidence with recent hack that protect traders fund while exchanges cater for the damages. The recent development in trade on DEX through token swap (UNISWAP etc.) had been efficient with wallet security except the traders are careless with their private keys.

shield132

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Activity: 2352

Merit: 905

Metawin.com - Truly the best casino ever

Not your keys - not your coins, that's 100% true but for some people, I would say: Even your keys - not your coins.

Okay, woud love to hear opinion about this from the community members.

As we know and from every logic, we shouldn't trust web wallets and also exchanges. There were a lot of accidents when exchanges were hacked and people lost their coins. Some may say - don't keep your coins at exchanges for a long time but I would say that everything happens in seconds, maybe you had access on your coins at exchanges while you were replying to this thread but once you submitted the post, exchange got hacked and coins were lost, everything happens in seconds, otherwise loss wouldn't occur.

So, how do you trade in these cases? Only p2p exchanges? But it's not flexible and you may miss a good time frames where you could profit 1-2% of your balance.

Topic: Don't trust web wallets, don't trust exchanges, then where to trade? - page 2. (Read 388 times)