During all this fear about the 51% you missed......... - page 2.

Ron~Popeil

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Quote from: FrozenBit on June 09, 2014, 09:53:40 AM

Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:04:46 PM

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

I would like to state to franky you've made that comment days before we've given information on the service. Therefore I'd like to digress from the assumption we make keys, as it's all done client side. The fundamental flaw in you idea is you have to actively have your key stored. Since that's done your risk of theft goes up 25%

Your idea is just that, our project is open source so you'll quickly find all claims debunked. You could add onto what weve done with your idea, but all I'm seeing is flags from that. I personally woulsnt use anything that requires me to store my key just to log in.

Please do refrain from speculation days before the announcement. To put you down lightly you're just wrong.

Also note nothing is set in stone, code can be changed. Features will be added so give it time to get it right or you can ask satoshi why he took more than an hour to make Bitcoin.

Were only a public stepping stone onto multisig. But I give you this task, get 5 people to use bitcoin today. Then try to show them the code. Odds are they'll be steered by that. So let's remove the oh look we can remove this step talk. It's only a crafty way we've been designing to show the protocol is a much more acute way.

There will always be people that don't like a service for whatever reason. For me the fact that you are making it open source makes it more trustworthy. I am looking forward to checking it out.

FrozenBit

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Quote from: fbueller on June 09, 2014, 08:18:08 AM

Thanks for your questions, please do check out the release on thursday to see the real information of the wallet. Like previously stated it's open source so anyone can use, change and enjoy the site the way they want to.

FrozenBit

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Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:04:46 PM

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

I would like to state to franky you've made that comment days before we've given information on the service. Therefore I'd like to digress from the assumption we make keys, as it's all done client side. The fundamental flaw in you idea is you have to actively have your key stored. Since that's done your risk of theft goes up 25%

Your idea is just that, our project is open source so you'll quickly find all claims debunked. You could add onto what weve done with your idea, but all I'm seeing is flags from that. I personally woulsnt use anything that requires me to store my key just to log in.

Please do refrain from speculation days before the announcement. To put you down lightly you're just wrong.

Also note nothing is set in stone, code can be changed. Features will be added so give it time to get it right or you can ask satoshi why he took more than an hour to make Bitcoin.

Were only a public stepping stone onto multisig. But I give you this task, get 5 people to use bitcoin today. Then try to show them the code. Odds are they'll be steered by that. So let's remove the oh look we can remove this step talk. It's only a crafty way we've been designing to show the protocol is a much more acute way.

Marlo Stanfield

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Activity: 490

Merit: 280

Quote from: fbueller on June 09, 2014, 08:18:08 AM

I'm amazed they generate keys and send them to users. This just goes to show that anyone will come up with a gimmicky system, which offers nothing outside new besides a 'web wallet with questionable security'. I really wish providers of such things made a better effort to ask the community for feedback before implementing such a bad design.

A client-side, offline, signing utility is going to be important since CoinBin's doesn't work for some keys.. It's a shame people are most interested in producing a new crappy wallet instead of developing core functionality first.

Also, is it just me, or who are these people with basically 0 activity posting to 'remind' us about this rubbish? Chris, Calvin, seem affiliated, this whole thing seems too much like a sham. Keep well away, it's just another web wallet.

I can't speak for anyone else but I have absolutely no affiliation with anyone and I hadn't heard of this project before this post.

Meuh6879

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Quote from: EcosystemArt on June 09, 2014, 05:17:41 AM

A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

that why QR-code must be used ... in any advertizing campaign.

fbueller

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I'm amazed they generate keys and send them to users. This just goes to show that anyone will come up with a gimmicky system, which offers nothing outside new besides a 'web wallet with questionable security'. I really wish providers of such things made a better effort to ask the community for feedback before implementing such a bad design.

A client-side, offline, signing utility is going to be important since CoinBin's doesn't work for some keys.. It's a shame people are most interested in producing a new crappy wallet instead of developing core functionality first.

Also, is it just me, or who are these people with basically 0 activity posting to 'remind' us about this rubbish? Chris, Calvin, seem affiliated, this whole thing seems too much like a sham. Keep well away, it's just another web wallet.

Marlo Stanfield

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 280

This does look interesting. Definitely going to be keeping an eye on the project.

And yes, I did miss this during all the fear about the 51%. Good thing you posted this to remind us

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: franky1 on June 09, 2014, 07:00:41 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 09, 2014, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: franky1 on June 09, 2014, 06:14:05 AM

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

+1 exactly. which is why i wonder why in hell it needs 2 factor, 3 sig keys to send funds all of which makes it more irritating to th user just to log in, rather than an offline transaction maker similar to bitaddress.orgs offline key generator scenario

Not sure what you mean exactly. the whole point is they are providing multi sig.....anyway, it is really hard to discuss what it "needs" when it hasnt launched yet and we cant see it... i think we're just guessing.

franky1

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 09, 2014, 06:43:42 AM

Quote from: franky1 on June 09, 2014, 06:14:05 AM

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

+1 exactly. which is why i wonder why in hell it needs 2 factor, 3 sig keys to send funds all of which makes it more irritating to th user just to log in, rather than an offline transaction maker similar to bitaddress.orgs offline key generator scenario.

imagine it, frozenbits concept
1. type in username
2. type in lengthy password (most probably saved to a file if very long)
3. press login button
4. open email
5. copy code sent to email
6. paste code
7. press submit. (now finally logged in)
8. enter first sig key.
9. enter second sig key.
10. enter destination.
11. enter amount.
12. press send.

thats 7 processes a customer needs to do just to log on and then 5 to send funds. requiring 5 pieces of customer data just for login

my concept
1. enter Privkey
2. press submit
3. enter destination
4. enter amount
5. press send.

the frozenbit "wallet" should not be advertised as a personal wallet service. but as a "joint account" wallet service for board members and groups, as its very flawed for single individuals to use as a simple wallet

jonald_fyookball

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Activity: 1302

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: franky1 on June 09, 2014, 06:14:05 AM

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

EcosystemArt

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: franky1 on June 09, 2014, 06:14:05 AM

Quote from: EcosystemArt on June 09, 2014, 05:17:41 AM

Quote from: Vintage on June 08, 2014, 09:11:57 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:04:46 PM

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online is PUSHTX

EG

if i input a privkey(from my paper wallet), a destination public key, and an amount to send. the opensource javascript (no server side processing) forms the TX and then puts it into a textbox or variable. which then can be sent to multiple relays such as blockchain.info and mining pool nodes

that way people dont need to have accounts and pre-deposited funds in third parties. they dont need usernames or passwords. all they need is their privkey, and 2 destination addresses (1 for recipient, 1 for change address)

I'm sure not everyone would want to go through that process for every transaction, or know how to for that reason for an average user like me. As the Bitcoin community goes that will include not so tech savy people too, so us not so tech savy people can have top of the line security without responsibility on us.

A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

Not to forget,the new generations i worked with,have no any problems keeping username and password in minds ,it seems they are cool with that..........and their time is coming,keeping these informations in minds will be normal,like we all know size of our shoes

franky1

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Quote from: EcosystemArt on June 09, 2014, 05:17:41 AM

Quote from: Vintage on June 08, 2014, 09:11:57 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:04:46 PM

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online is PUSHTX

EG

if i input a privkey(from my paper wallet), a destination public key, and an amount to send. the opensource javascript (no server side processing) forms the TX and then puts it into a textbox or variable. which then can be sent to multiple relays such as blockchain.info and mining pool nodes

that way people dont need to have accounts and pre-deposited funds in third parties. they dont need usernames or passwords. all they need is their privkey, and 2 destination addresses (1 for recipient, 1 for change address)

I'm sure not everyone would want to go through that process for every transaction, or know how to for that reason for an average user like me. As the Bitcoin community goes that will include not so tech savy people too, so us not so tech savy people can have top of the line security without responsibility on us.

A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

EcosystemArt

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: Vintage on June 08, 2014, 09:11:57 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:04:46 PM

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online is PUSHTX

EG

if i input a privkey(from my paper wallet), a destination public key, and an amount to send. the opensource javascript (no server side processing) forms the TX and then puts it into a textbox or variable. which then can be sent to multiple relays such as blockchain.info and mining pool nodes

that way people dont need to have accounts and pre-deposited funds in third parties. they dont need usernames or passwords. all they need is their privkey, and 2 destination addresses (1 for recipient, 1 for change address)

I'm sure not everyone would want to go through that process for every transaction, or know how to for that reason for an average user like me. As the Bitcoin community goes that will include not so tech savy people too, so us not so tech savy people can have top of the line security without responsibility on us.

A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

fryarminer

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This looks legit. Excellent concept! Looking forward to seeing the launch.

Ron~Popeil

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Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: FrozenBit on June 08, 2014, 09:46:41 PM

Quote from: fbueller on June 08, 2014, 09:38:05 PM

As someone mentioned previously, tools to simply sign a multisig transaction would be immensely appreciated. How about a public key issuing facility, and raw transaction signing utility for transactions provided by others?

I know we don't have an announcement yet, we're waiting until Thursday for that. We ARE developing a tool for making a 2-of-3 trustlessly with counter parties which allow you just to sign. It's going to be called RWES(Real World Escrow Situations), stay tuned for our announcement for that. We are also open-source so you could just make something we aren't currently doing yourself!

Also note, our goal here is to cleverly teach people about multisig without the technicals behind it. It feels as simple as the blockchain, signup and done (with added security of multisig and 2fa :-))

NOTE: RWES may NOT be ready for the End June- Mid-July Launch.

The trustless thing is truly exciting. Nice work! I am looking forward to checking it out when it goes live.

FrozenBit

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Quote from: franky1 on June 08, 2014, 09:55:00 PM

i envision a simple process such as this
green=clientside webpage red=sending to a server

Privkey: [___________] (textbox)
[ submit ] (button)

API only to grab balance of the PUBLIC KEY (no privkeysent)
page shows balance
destination [___________] (textbox)
value to send [___________] (textbox)
[ submit ] (button)

API sends signed TX to a PUSHTX 

all of this can be done by using javascript and updating DIV elements so no page refreshing is needed where all the code is viewable and opensource.

again if frozen bit doesnt want this as their main wallet feature. they should atleast have it as a 'advanced' feature.. or atleast have an API to allow people to PUSHTX to, much like how blockchain.info and a few pools have


 Thanks for that, nothing is set in stone and that's why we posted what we have so far. We consider ourselves tinkerers so I'm sure we're going to play around with that to see what we can do. Of course don't want to giveaway for Thursdays announcement so not revealing things yet. I do encourage everyone to follow us on twitter to be updated when we upload news or post the announcement.

http://twitter.com/frozenbitio

Site link: http://frozenbit.io

Topic: During all this fear about the 51% you missed......... - page 2. (Read 4500 times)