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Topic: Dwolla changes TOS to prohibit Bitcoin transactions? (Read 14013 times)

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Thanks to a post on Quora,
 -  - http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-paypal-and-dwolla/answer/Sam-Ohara/comment/993142

I've learned that Dwolla's terms of service have changed in another area as well, unfortunately:

(4) Funds in the Veridian Holding Account are held in a pooled account. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND.
- https://www.dwolla.com/tos

I hope I am understanding this correctly.

This means that, just like with MF Global, if the CEO orders your funds to be applied for use in whatever manner of his choosing, regardless of whether or not that action was legal, individual account holders have no guaranteed access to those funds.

This is unlike PayPal, which uses pooled accounts with FDIC pass-through protection (up to $100K USD per account):
 - https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fdic-outside

In other words, don't park your funds at Dwolla like you would at a bank.

I'm reading it as the funds not being individually covered by insurance because Dwolla users are not members of Veridian.  When you open a credit union account you're usually required to buy a token amount of shares to become a member - which makes your funds eligible for share insurance.  Even though Veridian is an investor in Dwolla, Dwolla users are not members of the credit union itself and it's therefore unlikely that their funds would be covered by share insurance.  Dwolla would be the "member" in this case and the funds in its Veridian account may or may not be eligible for insurance.

It looks like the maximum amount for which a member account at a given credit union is insured is $250,000.

Quote
The passage of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 increased the amount of covered shares to $250,000 until the end of 2013.[7] This increase was made permanent by the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act in July 2010.[8]
NCUA insurance covers "member share accounts and deposits":
   Share draft accounts (aka "checking accounts").
   Share savings that can be added to or withdrawn from at any time.
   "Money market share" accounts, essentially high-interest share savings accounts (the name is similar to "money market funds" which are not               insured).
   Share certificates (CDs), which generally require funds be kept in the account for a set period.
   Outstanding Cashier's Checks, Interest Checks, and other negotiable instruments drawn on the accounts of the credit union.
Quote
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
Thanks to a post on Quora,
 -  - http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-paypal-and-dwolla/answer/Sam-Ohara/comment/993142

I've learned that Dwolla's terms of service have changed in another area as well, unfortunately:

(4) Funds in the Veridian Holding Account are held in a pooled account. THESE FUNDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE, AND MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR SHARE INSURANCE BY THE NATIONAL CREDIT UNION SHARE INSURANCE FUND.
- https://www.dwolla.com/tos

I hope I am understanding this correctly.

This means that, just like with MF Global, if the CEO orders your funds to be applied for use in whatever manner of his choosing, regardless of whether or not that action was legal, individual account holders have no guaranteed access to those funds.

This is unlike PayPal, which uses pooled accounts with FDIC pass-through protection (up to $100K USD per account):
 - https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fdic-outside

In other words, don't park your funds at Dwolla like you would at a bank.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
yes they ask for this info but in another manner for example your ein or tin and regarding the verification problems check on google how paypal its far worst than dwolla.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
3 weeks ago i complete my verification with dwolla, they ask this info just like paypal, they want to verify the info credentials that you use to register with them, i think no harm there, paypal makes a worst scenario asking for bank statements etc. i think your dwolla account will be limited until they verify the documents that they request.

i don;'t think why all people blame dwolla since paypal fuck everybody with this kind of requests

I don't think PayPal has ever demanded that merchants require this from their customers, though :

Quote from: Dwolla
Hello,
As a merchant in the Dwolla community, we appreciate your shared interest in maintaining a safe and responsible payment network.
We'd like to let you know about a few changes we are rolling out shortly to merchants effected by bank level reversals, caused by identity theft and fraud.

Starting today, users sending money to your account will need to meet and/or maintain:

1) Connect a social network
2) Have a bank deposit 30 days old
3) Enable a DWOLLA hub page
4) Have a verified account

If you're a Dwolla user sending money to a merchant's Dwolla account, you're required to do more than just verify your account with Dwolla.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
3 weeks ago i complete my verification with dwolla, they ask this info just like paypal, they want to verify the info credentials that you use to register with them, i think no harm there, paypal makes a worst scenario asking for bank statements etc. i think your dwolla account will be limited until they verify the documents that they request.

i don;'t think why all people blame dwolla since paypal fuck everybody with this kind of requests
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Don't use MtGox then - they're ToS explicitly state that you must be 18 to have an account with them.

I was referring to Dwolla. Does Dwolla's TOS say this as well? I couldn't find it.

Age isn't mentioned in Dwolla's ToS.  I wonder whether it would accept a registration if the DOB revealed the applicant to be a minor.  Perhaps they think that the requirement for funds to originate at and be disbursed to US financial institutions makes it unnecessary for them to address the issue.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
Don't use MtGox then - they're ToS explicitly state that you must be 18 to have an account with them.

I was referring to Dwolla. Does Dwolla's TOS say this as well? I couldn't find it.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?

Per their User Conduct requirements, they can put a hold on your account for 90 days if you don't verify your identity in line with Veridian's requirements, so they'll probably do just that if you don't accept the new ToS.
The thing is, I wasn't prompted to accept the new ToS until just before this thing went into lockdown mode. What a pain in the ass. Not even my damned BANK needs that info, an no I don't mean a brick-and-mortar bank, I mean an online one that I use for everything, including paycheck direct deposits.

Yeah, it seems like it's been pretty well publicised that the changes were coming and would be effective from the end of May but they didn't prompt people enough about ensuring they were in line with the new requirements on the date they took effect.

Banks certainly can require a shit-ton of verification information but they tend not to if their risk management protocols deem a given account to be "low risk" unless there are transaction which trigger a change of status.  The very nature of Dwolla likely means that a greater proportion of accounts and transactions are regarded as "high risk" and so Veridian's requirements in regard to high risk accounts are being applied.  It's worth remembering that Veridian is a credit union and one reason credit unions had less defaults during the economic meltdown was because they often had more stringent requirements for borrowing than many banks.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?

Per their User Conduct requirements, they can put a hold on your account for 90 days if you don't verify your identity in line with Veridian's requirements, so they'll probably do just that if you don't accept the new ToS.
The thing is, I wasn't prompted to accept the new ToS until just before this thing went into lockdown mode. What a pain in the ass. Not even my damned BANK needs that info, an no I don't mean a brick-and-mortar bank, I mean an online one that I use for everything, including paycheck direct deposits.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?

Per their User Conduct requirements, they can put a hold on your account for 90 days if you don't verify your identity in line with Veridian's requirements, so they'll probably do just that if you don't accept the new ToS.

Quote
The reason I'm hesitant to do this is because when they see I'm not 18 they might pull a PayPal and freeze ("limit") my account.

Don't use MtGox then - they're ToS explicitly state that you must be 18 to have an account with them.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?
I suspect that isn't an option once you have agreed to their new terms. I didn't get the new ToS agreement notice on login until just a few days before the account was suspended.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
I didn't use an exchange either...

So what happens if we simply say "nope."?
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
I just got an email from the big D asking me to verify my identity. They want a picture of my ID.

The reason I'm hesitant to do this is because when they see I'm not 18 they might pull a PayPal and freeze ("limit") my account.

I skimmed their TOS and I see nothing regarding age, so I should be fine. I  just wanted to ask here in case anybody has already gone through this and wants to share some advice.

Thanks,
Garrett
I just got one as well. Fucking Dwolla. Just after a large p2p transfer, not even touching an exchange.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
What's a GPU?
I just got an email from the big D asking me to verify my identity. They want a picture of my ID.

The reason I'm hesitant to do this is because when they see I'm not 18 they might pull a PayPal and freeze ("limit") my account.

I skimmed their TOS and I see nothing regarding age, so I should be fine. I  just wanted to ask here in case anybody has already gone through this and wants to share some advice.

Thanks,
Garrett
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
use this post to exchange dwolla to btc or mtgox usd

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.926196
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
I just sent from MT.GOX to Dwolla.I'll update when it arrives.


Any good news?
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
I stopped using dwolla and the exchanges months ago and have been doing all my purchases P2P, and I will never look back.

This.

I only use P2P now, was just ripped by a smaller exchange for 200 BTC so for the future will only use bitcoin-otc or people here

But what service are you using for the other side of this transaction?
member
Activity: 87
Merit: 10
I just sent from MT.GOX to Dwolla.I'll update when it arrives.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
still the same lag between mtgox to dwolla. i suggest you use a forum trader if you want to speed up the process
full member
Activity: 222
Merit: 100
www.btcbuy.info
Any other news so far? It's been kind of quiet in this thread. Anyone withdrew using DWOLLA recently? Anything unusual, other than 6 day wait?
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