Dwolla vs Paxum & MtGox vs Tradehill - for US bitcoiners

Blackout

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: BusmasterDMA on August 12, 2011, 11:27:04 AM

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on August 10, 2011, 11:46:57 AM

Any suggestions that you have for non-reversible payment options we will evaluate and use if possible.

Another exchange recently announced the ability to deposit cash at Chase and Wells Fargo bank locations. Sounds about as non-reversible as it gets.

The issue with this is - you, the person depositing cash. What is your security that they will credit you on the exchange? Obviously such exchange opened up an account at Chase or several banks, and anyone can go into any bank and deposit cash into someone's account and bamn it's instant and there.

but what's to stop the exchange from running off with the cash or saying they didn't get it?

So again I guess small amounts and trust is required.

Blackout

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: Ridi on August 10, 2011, 02:08:15 PM

Transferring funds has never been instant. Instant transactions, like purchasing gas, are made on trust that the transaction will go through. This is more trust than BTC warrants. TradeHill and MtGox could accept reversible payments sources if they could be sure that once the payment was approved it could not be reversed. (Unfortunately not the case with Dwolla.)

In any case you would have to wait for the funds to be approved.

Yes but this is "the scam" of the banks. In truth.... all transactions are connected and secure and the computers know if the funds are there or not. The "3 day" wait thing is ridiculous and it's because banks want to float your money in other investments for themselves which they are doing ANYWAY with the fake money digits that are on the computer that is your bank account. There is NO reason for lack of instantaneous transaction from banks except for the banks games. They are all one and all connected and instantly know if funds are available or not since the entire system is a scam. Isn't it funny how you can PUT money in a bank and it's instantly there when it's cash but when you want to get out money or deposit a check or something they do these floats....

With the routing numbers on the checks they can instantly know juts like a credit card if it's there or not - the whole network is linked. It's a shell game.

TheBanker

member

Activity: 125

Merit: 10

In addition to the problem with cashing money orders, the majority of banks will not let you deposit them. The banks that do let you deposit them have very low limits like $500 for the lifetime of your account!

BusmasterDMA

member

Activity: 118

Merit: 10

Quote from: dacoinminster on August 12, 2011, 03:15:19 PM

I wonder how the "deposit cash at your local X bank" system works, and what fees are involved. I haven't been able to find anything describing it.

Relevant thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/announce-exchb-now-lets-you-buy-bitcoins-with-cash-today-via-15000-locations-36602

dacoinminster

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1031

Rational Exuberance

Quote from: indio007 on August 10, 2011, 01:40:07 PM

Postal Money orders aren't reversible. You can also cash them at the post office AFAIK. 2nd day Priority mail is fairly cheap.
I'd say Western Union but their fees are ridiculous but they are less than $50 that Paxum wants for a wire transfer.
I don't know much about MoneyGram.

USD Volume on TradeHill is drying up like a cowpie in August because Paxum charges $5 to get money into their system, so all the USD is going through Dwolla into MtGox Sad

MtGox may be taking losses from Dwolla reversals but not telling anyone about it . . .

I wonder how the "deposit cash at your local X bank" system works, and what fees are involved. I haven't been able to find anything describing it.

I think postal money orders can actually be cashed for U.S. Currency at a post office? Not sure if there is a limit on how many of these one person can cash:

https://www.usps.com/shop/money-orders.htm

Update: using postal money orders is a good way to get investigated for money laundering:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/pubs/ar01_06.pdf

Reckman

hero member

Activity: 711

Merit: 500

Mtgox + Dwolla, cant go wrong there

WiseOldOwl

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

https://bitcoinbux.com

Deposit at any "US Bank" Branch near you.

BusmasterDMA

member

Activity: 118

Merit: 10

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on August 10, 2011, 11:46:57 AM

Any suggestions that you have for non-reversible payment options we will evaluate and use if possible.

Another exchange recently announced the ability to deposit cash at Chase and Wells Fargo bank locations. Sounds about as non-reversible as it gets.

Blackout

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: aq on August 11, 2011, 04:56:38 PM

Quote from: Blackout on August 11, 2011, 03:42:30 PM

What's the hate on dwolla then? Seems just like paypal2 without all the harassment / rules and support for bitcoin exchanges.

There is no hate on dwolla.
1) Send money to dwolla.
2) Use dwolla to buy bitcoins.
4) Get the bitcoins from the exchange.
3) Reverse your dwolla payment.
5) Congratulation, now you have Bitcoins for free.

And you are banned from the exchange I assume so what would be the point if you are really participating in bitcoin?
You couldn't sell the bitcoins if the value went up... you'd have to go t o another exchange..... more hassle.
I am sure then if you repeated this dwolla would notice and block you as well.

Might work for a small time scam but it seems fairly useless and I imagine the profit that huge exchanges like mtgox is making far more that offsets the occasional little reverse charge fraudster. Now the hack into their system.... THAT is of serious concern.

aq

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Blackout on August 11, 2011, 03:42:30 PM

What's the hate on dwolla then? Seems just like paypal2 without all the harassment / rules and support for bitcoin exchanges.

There is no hate on dwolla.
1) Send money to dwolla.
2) Use dwolla to buy bitcoins.
4) Get the bitcoins from the exchange.
3) Reverse your dwolla payment.
5) Congratulation, now you have Bitcoins for free.

Blackout

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Note to above paypal comments - this is why I am NOT using paypal and why this thread is here... I was just posting theoretically.

Quote

I'm in the same boat - dwolla is filled now got to find the right exchange will be watching this thread!

What do you mean dwolla is 'filled' now?

Anyway I just got an account on dwolla and went through the verification process and there seem to be no fees to wire money in or out from your bank to dwolla? or am I missing something? So then I am forced to use Mt Gox vs Tradehill I guess... why would anyone pay a $50 fee to paxum and send them a suitcase of scanned documents of personal data lf if dwolla is doing it for nearly free (minus the small fees of what .25 or .50?), has an established rep, and without all the hassle? What is the time then after dwolla gets your money to get it into mt gox from dwolla? Instant?

What's the hate on dwolla then? Seems just like paypal2 without all the harassment / rules and support for bitcoin exchanges.

7 years from now I should be able to buy some bit coins...

WiseOldOwl

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Although MoneyPak is the absolute best for small amounts, MoneyPak has ridiculously low limits and could never support tradehill or mtgox's volume.
MoneyGram and WU are still king unfortunately,
MoneyGram Especially (Slightly better fees, and can be picked up 24/7)
30% of all transactions at https://bitcoinbux.com are MoneyGram related at the moment.

I am working non stop on an irreversible payment method to benefit all trades/exchanges, hope I can nail it.
The other thing my exchange offers is the ability to go to any "US Bank" branch in the united states and deposit cash to our business account. This is free, and fast.

Anyways these are my tips as I continue to sit on the proverbially sidelines of the large bitcoin exchanges.
I am considering incorporating a P2P exchange at our site, but I dont want to add yet another exchange to the market, we do seem to have a pretty good handle on things though.
Jared you seem pretty down to earth, I think I can help you with getting more cleared funds into your accounts.
Basically sell me tradehill dollars directly and I will sell them at a fee and let my company handle the funds transfers etc.

PM me.

kjj

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1026

Quote from: Blackout on August 10, 2011, 10:50:33 PM

Quote from: kjj on August 10, 2011, 08:41:47 AM

No, not a grey area. The list is prohibited activities, not prohibited entities.

It is not prohibited to send money to any user for any reason..... I can just send a friend money for no reason whatsoever.. it's my friend... I'm sending him money.

So if I do a transaction with someone for an ebook or other service, that is allowed. If that person sends me bitcoins that is completely separate and had nothing to do with my paypal transaction.

If I send paypal money and say, "here's money for some bitcoins" THEN and only then have I broken terms of service.
Or if I paypal money TO a bitcoin service.

They'll laugh at you.

indio007

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Another option to the ones I already listed . Travelers Checks. AAA has no fee travelers checks if you are a member.

Bank of America has online ordering of American Express Travelers checks to account holders

Blackout

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: kjj on August 10, 2011, 08:41:47 AM

No, not a grey area. The list is prohibited activities, not prohibited entities.

It is not prohibited to send money to any user for any reason..... I can just send a friend money for no reason whatsoever.. it's my friend... I'm sending him money.

So if I do a transaction with someone for an ebook or other service, that is allowed. If that person sends me bitcoins that is completely separate and had nothing to do with my paypal transaction.

If I send paypal money and say, "here's money for some bitcoins" THEN and only then have I broken terms of service.
Or if I paypal money TO a bitcoin service.

I have done neither of the above, so I have not broken any terms of service.

But anyway... that is another topic.... I am looking for the best U.S. way to buy and sell bitcoins without outrageous fees or long waits.

Ridi

member

Activity: 200

Merit: 11

Transferring funds has never been instant. Instant transactions, like purchasing gas, are made on trust that the transaction will go through. This is more trust than BTC warrants. TradeHill and MtGox could accept reversible payments sources if they could be sure that once the payment was approved it could not be reversed. (Unfortunately not the case with Dwolla.)

In any case you would have to wait for the funds to be approved.

indio007

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Postal Money orders aren't reversible. You can also cash them at the post office AFAIK. 2nd day Priority mail is fairly cheap.
I'd say Western Union but their fees are ridiculous but they are less than $50 that Paxum wants for a wire transfer.
I don't know much about MoneyGram.

error

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: Blackout on August 10, 2011, 12:28:19 AM

I am having a hard time figuring out which is the best course of action for US based bitcoin users who want to partake in buying and selling them.

CampBX?

Quote from: Blackout on August 10, 2011, 12:28:19 AM

Currently what are U.S. users doing to get money in and out of USD?

Still using Dwolla when I have to, despite the various issues with it. Though I do not keep a balance at Dwolla.

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

We're looking in to all options for getting funds in and out of TradeHill. When you remove all the reversible payment options from the list you aren't left with much.

Any suggestions that you have for non-reversible payment options we will evaluate and use if possible.

Jered

spend4bitcoins

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

Quote from: Blackout on August 10, 2011, 12:28:19 AM

I am having a hard time figuring out which is the best course of action for US based bitcoin users who want to partake in buying and selling them. I have done some small trading on https://bitmarket.eu which has been fairly successful and it seems they always carry a higher value due to the fact that they in certain instances allow for paypal which is the fastest method, and since you are using paypal privately with other users for any service you are not technically violating paypal terms. This is I suppose what fuels the higher prices.

I have wanted to get on one of the more major trading sites or several of them but Tradehill forces U.S. users to only use paxum which I didn't like the looks of at all nor the ridiculous fees. I am not fond of going to MtGox either as I'm not sure how I feel about the whole hack/rollback scenario. Some say it increased their security but who knows... and how can they just 'rollback' prices I though once bitcoin blocks go they go? But anyway, I'm sure there are a billion other threads on that.

Currently what are U.S. users doing to get money in and out of USD? It seems like an incredible pain in the boot with excessive fees and middlemen no matter how you go.

Dwolla looks like the only other option but I am hearing a lot of bashing on it as well.

Would just like to hear what some of your opinions are and your "workflow" for converting bitcoins to USD and USD to bitcoins.

For instance, I had some extra funds laying around and I wanted to buy a bunch of coins when it hit the recent low, but there was no way for me to do it because of all the delays.. middle men.. and only dwolla or paxum. Or does Mt Gox take direct bank wires in and out? Is that safe? How do American banks respond? How do they respond to dwolla? Paxum looks a bit too creepy for me.

Experiences and workflow, and some sample amounts of trades and fees would be greatly appreciated.

I'm in the same boat - dwolla is filled now got to find the right exchange will be watching this thread!

Topic: Dwolla vs Paxum & MtGox vs Tradehill - for US bitcoiners (Read 3446 times)