Early signs of crime with bitcoin. - page 4.

mk4

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Quote from: dothebeats on December 16, 2020, 05:02:43 PM

No matter what the financial tool is, expect that there will always be bad guys tarnishing the reputation of established fronts for their personal gain.

Yeap, and not just financial tools specifically, tools in general are always going to be used for nefarious purposes, and there's really not much we can do about it. Especially knowing that Bitcoin is pretty much freedom money, people will always take advantage of that freedom. With that said, I'd like to take the optimistic approach and remember that there are a lot of people saving themselves from inflation(and governmental tyranny) because of this wonderful invention that is Bitcoin.

kano

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In fact, Bitcoin is traceable while fiat usually isn't.
... you normally can't spend Bitcoins you get, unless you transfer them to someone else via the public blockchain ...

This argument about Bitcoin has been around pretty much since Bitcoin existed.

As others have said, fiat has been doing this for centuries.
So we should get rid of fiat, since Bitcoin is easier to trace?

The actual issue is simply that many governments and financial institutions don't want Bitcoin, so they distort the facts to try to turn people away from Bitcoin.

As for the media - every media outlet wants people to read their articles, so they'll say whatever they think will get the attention of people, no matter if the title ignores facts.

abel1337

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Quote from: dothebeats on December 16, 2020, 05:02:43 PM

No matter what the financial tool is, expect that there will always be bad guys tarnishing the reputation of established fronts for their personal gain. Anyway, I’m sure this will not deter genuine users of bitcoin from using and investing on it, as was the case for most of us here still invested and believing in bitcoin. More of these nefarious activities will be prevalent now that bitcoin is hitting the shelves, so it always helps to be vigilant to not be a victim of such.

Right, criminals is still criminals whatever the method or platform they are taking advantage of to perform their method. It just happened that bitcoin is the logical choice for the criminal to use when he does his money laundering act. Of course, the dignity of bitcoin will be reduced to those who saw the bad side of it but those who have trust in bitcoin and has knowledge of it know that the features of bitcoin are good compare to the traditional system.

Rengga Jati

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And how many people use Bitcoin for crimes?
Everyone will have their own motive to support the crimes that they are doing.
If there is not bitcoin or crypto, they will also say that another thing is supporting their crime and used for their crime.
So, we cannot determine it. many people also have been using fiat money for any criminal, money laundry, and other illegal activities.

Quote from: Obi theo on December 14, 2020, 05:30:16 AM

This are one of the reasons crypto is still rejected .

as far as I know, the reason Bitcoin is rejected in some countries is not only related to the use of criminals. But more other reasons like they are afraid of the financial system of their country, risks, and more about government cannot control Bitcoin. Additionally, sometimes, they don't legalize Bitcoin as a tool of payment because they have authorized the "money" in their country is the Fiat itself, not a cryptocurrency.
And I also agree with @Upgrade00. Fiat is used for numerous criminals for a long long time ago. But none rejects it so far.

dothebeats

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No matter what the financial tool is, expect that there will always be bad guys tarnishing the reputation of established fronts for their personal gain. Anyway, I’m sure this will not deter genuine users of bitcoin from using and investing on it, as was the case for most of us here still invested and believing in bitcoin. More of these nefarious activities will be prevalent now that bitcoin is hitting the shelves, so it always helps to be vigilant to not be a victim of such.

Starka

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You’re quite right of course, but the larger issue is government using these crimes to establish and enforce oversight...you know...to protect us. THAT my friends is the real criminal enterprise.

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Is this even news?
Even way before Bitcoin became widely known people with good and bad intentions used it a like. From trading normal good and items in exchange for bitcoin to using to buying banned drugs, weapons, money laundering etc. Bitcoin has seen it all from its infancy
Questions are;
1. Did money laundering start when Bitcoin was introduced
2. Did trading of banned substances and weapons start when Bitcoin was introduced?

If the answer is no, then why does it make news when such things happen in the bitcoin ecosystem?

abderrazak belkhir

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I dont know what you mean but its really strange that people still talking about this idea...do you think that if bitcoin doesnt exist at all this persone will not commit any crime??
Do you think that the only motivation for this persone is the existence of bitcoin??

Mike Mayor

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Maybe we should also ban gold and silver oh we use to trade in cattle so I guess we better ban cows too. If something has value criminals want it, it is honestly that simple.

Money laundering has been going on ever since the creation of trade. Even before coins were used. People had to pay cattle to the king or whatever and people could have "laundered" that cattle so they don't have to give cattle to the king. If some people can find a way not to pay for something they will.

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 14, 2020, 05:49:04 AM

Fiat for a very long time has been used to perpetuate scams but has not been rejected yet. If something has value, which Bitcoin does, it could potentially be used as a means of receiving illegal funds, this does not make the asset or currency illegal of itself.

Many people do not know Bitcoin is money, also an asset. What will criminals like to steal? It will be money like fiat, gold, diamond. If bitcoin is attracting scammers, that means it is because it is money and also an asset. The fact still remain as you commented about it as fiat remains the most laundered money that is also used in terrorism financing. Before bitcoin were terrorism and criminals.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Obi theo on December 14, 2020, 05:30:16 AM

When the world is gradually accepting bitcoin, the already made bitcoiners are using those little opportunity to commit various crimes with bitcoin.
A Russian was sentenced to French prison for bitcoin laundering.
Source : https://apnews.com/article/cryptocurrency-paris-money-laundering-bitcoin-russia-61b5109e954f494b80d51c452b3b18e2

the Silk Road (and it's copycats) was the first reason that a majority of people became aware of Bitcoin, that was 2011

so criminals using Bitcoin is almost as old as the Bitcoin network

Perhaps the following will also be news to you: people have been behaving unethically using money since money began too. And also before money existed. Money gradually became a popular thing despite that.

irixo10

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Even if there is no Bitcoin, he can still carry out the laundering maybe through other means like fiat, or even art works, so the problems is not about Bitcoin being used the problem is from the individual and I think it is time we stopped using such case scenarios to judge Bitcoin and its use. Some people uses Bitcoin to carryout money laundering and some people are still building platforms which can also leverage Bitcoin as a payment option, Institutional investors are still buying it, thus means that irrespective of what negative thing people think about Bitcoin, it is now a valuable asset. Hence my thought is, just as fiat is being used for various purposes both good and bad purposes, and ever since then have not been rejected same is also the case with Bitcoin.

thesmallgod

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I do not see the use of crypto for crime as the basis of rejection. everyday people commit crime and used fiat currencies. Just few days ago, Saudi Arabia prosecute business owners for money laundering https://www.arabnews.com/node/1776676/saudi-arabia, should we because of that ban the use of fiat currency? maybe because of the portability and flexibility that bitcoin offers, they think it is easy to use bitcoin for crime but there has not been any holistic view that bitcoin are mostly used for crime than the fiat currency. Do you even know how difficult it can be to sell large amount of crypto for fiat?. Most time you end up using CEX which might require you to present document for KYC and at the long run, your identity is no more anonymous and you can be caught

masterrex

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Quote from: Obi theo on December 14, 2020, 05:30:16 AM

When the world is gradually accepting bitcoin, the already made bitcoiners are using those little opportunity to commit various crimes with bitcoin.
A Russian was sentenced to French prison for bitcoin laundering.
Source : https://apnews.com/article/cryptocurrency-paris-money-laundering-bitcoin-russia-61b5109e954f494b80d51c452b3b18e2
It is also said that this is not his first crime using crypto currency.
This are one of the reasons crypto is still rejected .
What are your thoughts on these?.

Mate that was a personal motive, and does not reflect why Bitcoin is rejected in some countries. For me, the biggest issue/causes why Bitcoin was put on hold/rejected in some countries/territories is because of the regulatory issues/laws while some countries impose the ban on cryptocurrencies in order to protect their financial services/Finance base industry because they know already that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are more efficient compared to the old system that most countries have using. just my opinion!

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Quote from: Obi theo on December 14, 2020, 05:30:16 AM

This are one of the reasons crypto is still rejected .

Fiat for a very long time has been used to perpetuate scams but has not been rejected yet. If something has value, which Bitcoin does, it could potentially be used as a means of receiving illegal funds, this does not make the asset or currency illegal of itself.

From this source, you can see the actual scam metheld used and it wasn't Bitcoin;
"French prosecutors say Vinnik was one of the creators of a malicious software called “Locky” that was delivered through email. If downloaded, the recipient’s data was encrypted and they were asked to pay ransom in bitcoin to free it."

The ransom could have been paid in any other valuable commodity as ransom payment was a thing long before Bitcoin was invented.

Obi theo

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When the world is gradually accepting bitcoin, the already made bitcoiners are using those little opportunity to commit various crimes with bitcoin.
A Russian was sentenced to French prison for bitcoin laundering.
Source : https://apnews.com/article/cryptocurrency-paris-money-laundering-bitcoin-russia-61b5109e954f494b80d51c452b3b18e2
It is also said that this is not his first crime using crypto currency.
This are one of the reasons crypto is still rejected .
What are your thoughts on these?.

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