Topic: ECB starts 24 month digital euro project. - page 2. (Read 522 times)

Well EU plans to start blocking anonymous wallet transaction which they could literally make it a hunt for criminals not just for launderer that they usually say.

And then this CBDC although it will take a long time before they could come up perfectly, stablecoins might also be screened or banned because they think that stablecoins are going to be widely used than the CBDC.

But if the Central Banks believe that a CBDC will stop/discourage people from buying, and using Bitcoin, then they cannot be more WRONG. I believe people HODL, and use Bitcoin because of two things, idealism, and greed. Bitcoin is censorship-resistant, and something that can still surge 10x more. CBDC can’t give you that.

I think it's a bit of both with more favor to staying in the game longer, I think that these people know that their current financial system is already flawed and archaic so they try and make sure that it survives and adapts because they know that it's the thing that keeps them in power.

It's interesting that the general view of the UK differs so much from within Europe as opposed to from outside Europe. Certainly they seem pretty intent on building walls rather than bridges at the moment (metaphorically speaking). As the world becomes more and more interconnected, I'm not sure what they are looking to gain by isolating themselves from it. I've not been paying a huge amount of attention to it recently, but from what news does filter through to me it seems to be driven by some desire to regain the "glory" of the "empire" - Make Britain Great Again nonsense, if you will.

It's funny - the Bank of England used to be one of the most important central banks in the world. It's still important, obviously, but I would say I pay a lot less attention to what it is up to than I did in years gone by. Now the ECB is probably the foreign central bank I read about the most. If and when the BoE launch a CBDC, will anyone outside of the UK even care?

Perhaps it's driven by the point stompix made above. If the Fed comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then they have to take it to Congress and get it to pass a vote. If the ECB comes out with a proposal for a CBDC, then it has to be disseminated to 19 (or is it all 27?) member states, any one of which could veto it. They need to be sure they get it right or it'll never pass.

It is going to be exactly like that, remember how Visa was trying to build their own blockchain? People turned that into a huge news where everyone got excited about the fact that maybe we will have a blockchain that is protected by Visa and used in trillions of dollars of money movement all around the world, hell over hundred billion dollars just in USA, so it will slowly and gradually turn into something so huge that blockchain will be part of everyone's live very soon. What happened to that news? It was such a huge news that just by itself the price went up, from that news, where is it now?

It is nowhere to be found, it is literally just gone basically and everyone is just forgetting about it if not already forgot. Which is why I honestly believe that this will be exactly like that, everyone will act like they care now, but eventually people will forget it.

I don't know if it's about strength or is it more about staying in the game. With all the big financial powers going on the direction of CBDCs, EU had to do the same.
It's interesting that they take their time in analyzing fully all the possible implications. It means that they want to do it good (whatever that means from their point of view!) and it also means that while they signaled that they stay in the game, they don't want to be the first, they don't want unnecessary headaches, but if the others do it, they'll do it too.

The rest of Europe wasn't really seeing the UK as being a part of it, there were a lot of differences, not to mention they kept and had no plan on adopting the Euro as a currency but the whole thing about the UK was a mess. They drive on a different side of the road, they have a different measuring system, you have the United Kingdom and you have Great Britain if you watch the Olympics is GB not UK! Not even mentioning the fact that they are on an island cut away from the continent which adds to the feeling they are not really right here beside us. Plus a lot of people were pissed about their immigration policies, treating people from the EU worse than they treat illegal migrants from their former colonies, bottom line is that a lot of us here in Europe see them as Brits and nothing more.


What fight against bitcoin?
If they would want to fight against it we would simply ban it the next day, you give to much importance to a thing that is just a grain of sand compared to the EU multi-trillion trillion economy, CBDCs are meant for something else.

Stop seeing enemies everywhere, is not healthy!

Let's wait and see what they are going to do, I am sick and tired of these "projects" that are not even available at anytime, hell not even in development getting news and impacting our world. There are way too many things like these that we talked about and then nothing happened, I am not going to neither worry nor be happy about these because they never made any sense to me at all.

I understand that we are talking about something major here but we have talked about major stuff before and none of that became true. When something in the world of crypto happens it literally just suddenly happens and it is totally out of nowhere, we should not be getting hyped about something that is just in the talks right now and not even in the real world just yet. When it gets started on the development and we see something more then I will believe it, otherwise it is another Libra deal.

I also thought the UK leaving the EU might have been the beginning of the end, but from what I can tell it has made the resolve and commitment of many of the other nations stronger. I think maybe in the rest of the world we still think of the UK as a superpower due to the Commonwealth and the other left overs from the British Empire, when in reality the UK's international standing and influence has been slowly dwindling for years.

Technically, a pan-European CBDC should make international payments and international trade completely seamless across all participating countries. Perhaps their desire for a CBDC is actually to strengthen the EU after the UK's departure.

The digital euro will only give more control to the fiat system. The main goal seems to be to eliminate Bitcoin as a potential threat. Their plan is to terminate anonymous cash transactions at the beginning and then attack all decentralized cryptocurrencies so that they can Can control our income and what we buy with their central bank digital currency. This currency must prove its technical feasibility on the same basis as distributed cryptocurrencies. Therefore, it cannot achieve the best balance between utility, efficiency and trust, and it will take several years to release something feasible to the public.

The topic seems to have veered to a discussion about the potential collapse of Euro and the European Union. European Union has been ratified for almost 20 years now and has been around as an idea since the second world war. To an outsider from a developing country, when I read about the aim of peace, prosperity and tackling tough problems together; it sounds pretty noble and humane. The primary aim of the EU was to stop frequent wars within Europe and a kind of political unification.

The process seemed to have given benefits in the 90s but has faced a lot of tests since the financial crisis of 2008. It is interesting that Germany has evolved to play a leadership role while the British have pulled out of it pretty unceremoniously. From an outside perspective, the EU doesn't seem so viable without the UK, but its commendable that the rest of the EU, presumably under German/ French leadership, is soldiering along.

In view of this history, i think EU has larger concerns than deciding what role Bitcoin will play in the future. It maybe the case that they are going for CBDCs more as a logical evolution of banking than fighting against Bitcoin. How they end up viewing Bitcoin is a separate viewpoint evolving in parallel by itself.

In the article I posted in the OP there is a link to a much more detailed explanation of all stages of testing/experimentation, and you can find some of the answers in it. Although it should be borne in mind that a lot can change until the digital euro finally appears in its final form.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/ecb.digitaleuroscopekeylearnings202107~564d89045e.en.pdf

Up to what point does this compete with crypto would be a question to examine. Crypto as we understand it is based on the individuality of the holding, being your own bank, having a currency that cannot be used by the will of a political party, etc... The digital CB issued coins do not seem anything like that and carry certain risks of privacy.

I would like to learn the answer to questions like who would be free to open a digital account? Only residents, only companies, everyone in the world? How would KYC be enforced if enforced at all on the owners of CB issues crypto?

I am eager to get the results from the trial and further trials as there are so many implications for people, countries and the world economy.

Is this a currency that wants to be born for them to manage and replace BTC? I don't think the project they came up with doesn't stop there, it sounds like they want to own their own virtual currency.

I don't know of any country taking a complete political stance against the idea of the digital euro, probably none is really concerned as with a term of two years for testing and another five years in most cases they will not still be in power.  Of course, with the amount of information we have daily is easy to miss things so who knows, there might have been some but the usual naughty kids of the UE have no saying in here, countries like Hungary not being part of the Eurozone so I don't know who would really go opposing and for what reason.
Maybe Cyprus and Malta as this would bring a lot more control over their banks and we all know there are a lot of things going through those acting like gateways in and out of the EU, but, as I said, nothing that I know to date.

Anyhow, 7 years is a lot, we might not even see a CBDC by then, who knows what great idea they will have by then.

I'm pretty sure I've still got some French francs tucked away at the bottom of a box somewhere. Never felt right to just throw a currency in the trash. I guess I'll hold on to them in case suddenly they become valuable again.

Interesting. It's probably too soon to know, but have any countries expressed any objections to a CBDC so far? And on what basis? Surely when they get fed the usual nonsense of "but think of the children" and/or increased tax revenues through less tax evasion, they'll be quite happy to comply.

Neither am I, as for the 5 years....cough, Berlin's Airport...cough!  
Let's not even talk about things that require cooperation, Schengen? Military cooperation? Immigrant policy?

As for why we should be happy about it I don't see any reason to, we could be really off with the current system, just improve the banking times, we already have instant banking transfers between 4 nationals banks here and some have started to offer 1-2 hours interval transfer to every country in the EU. About clearing times and whatever happens outside the customer view, I couldn't care less, it's their loss if they are inefficient.


As far as the comparison between those two goes I always start with one thing, the US states don't have the long history of having their own currency the EU states have, for most of them it was simply pound, pesos, dollar, the collapse of the US dollar wouldn't put much strain on the union if the Euro becomes toilet paper it will spur addition exits probably. But I don't see the currency crumbling that soon, probably right now it has a more solid position than the US.


The ECB has no longer a true consensus policy because it would contradict its own status now where the voting rights for governors are done by rotation so a real consensus can't be reached, they use usually the term majority. Besides, it was never about real consensus and more about negotiating till one would give up.

But, that aside, fiscal rules inside the Eurozone are not simply issued by the ECB, they only control a range of monetary policies, from interest rates to bank loans and buying assets, what would be required in this case would be a consensus of the countries themselves, and in this yes, every country has a veto right when it comes to this. It takes one parliamentary majority in one to refuse it and the project is dead. Not even the EU parliament has power over this decision.

Simply put, the ECB would need new power in order to govern and control the digital euro, they cant grant those themselves and new ones can be given only through a unanimous vote from all the member states just like when the ECB was set up.

The ECB has 3 decision-making bodies, of which the Governing Council is the one that makes decisions. This council consists of the president, his deputy, and 4 other members elected for a term of 8 years, and all the governors of the national central banks. As far as I understand their powers, there must be a common position of all members (governors of national central banks) for a decision to be made - but that is not a problem, governors are appointed to support the ECB's decisions anyway.

What currently comes to my mind are cases where the ECB is the institution that decides whether a member state can sell its gold or not - so France was granted the move, while Italy got the red light (although the request was not even official).

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I visited the official website of the ECB and found an interesting podcast entitled "Bicycles, bitcoin and zombie firms: financial stability in the wake of the third wave". I wouldn’t rate it as anything spectacular, but it’s worth listening to.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/tvservices/podcast/html/ecb.pod210616_episode17.en.html

I don't know the future of CBDC but I see it being bleak and uneventful because you're basically using fiat money that can track your purchases and when was the last time that you spend your money. This is the anti-crypto and we as the crypto community have to watch out for this because it has a big impact to the community and the market.

My understanding was that the ECB could pass down decisions based on "consensus" or "majority" rulings, rather than requiring complete agreement from all its members, but I'm not from Europe so someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I doubt developing countries are considering a CBDC in an effort to stop bitcoin. Rather, they are being forced to consider it due to developed countries considering it. There are lots of developing nations which already use USD or some other major currency as a surrogate for their own currency, due to inflation, counterfeiting, easier trade, wider acceptance, etc. Should we end up with a digital dollar, then it would likely become incredibly easy for citizens of these countries to use it for all purposes, rending the country's own currency less valuable and pushing the country towards dollarization, which is something that the government may not want.