Topic: [EDU] EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN LENDING TO USERS! - page 3. (Read 84338 times)
Stickied. With the recent wave of fresh newbies begging to be scammed so that they can cry later in the scammer accusation subforums, warnings like this is greatly appreciated. (though I would bet most newbies do not read stickies....)
What is good collateral for a loan?
- Identification that is clear, verified and can be linked to you and trace you
ID is not acceptable collateral for a loan.
There has been a massive influx of new users requesting loans lately, and as a result, lots of people being scammed. It seems that Tomatocage's thread isn't enough, so let me just say this:
Do not loan to new users unless you can get collateral OR if they are very trusted due to high-risk services they provide (examples: gambling sites, currency exchange sites), because the chances of them defaulting/scamming are 90%+.
What defines a "new" user?
There has been an influx of people giving loans as high as .85 BTC (remember, that's $100! Edit: At $1000 (per BTC), that's $850, at $500, that's $425.) to newbies who have just registered, and shortly after been stabbed in the back. Don't do it.
Even if the member is not 'new', always try to get collateral! Accounts are regularly bought and sold and 'exit scams' are common, where someone finishes up with Bitcointalk and decides to run off with as much as they can as a 'reward' for the time they spent on their account. If you are going to loan without collateral I would highly recommend only doing so for amounts on the smaller end of the spectrum (<0.005 BTC or so), and to users who have been around for a long time (Hero/Legendary) and have good amounts of positive trust.
What is good collateral for a loan? (From best to worst)
Or, if you can not get collateral:
If someone is requesting a loan and meets any of the "new" user criteria, do not loan to them unless you can get collateral. For your own sake.
Also: Invaluable advice from Boelens on bad collateral:
To add to this: Gift Cards are also terrible collateral. Not only are they hard to sell for their full value (you'll probably get more like 50-80%), like with all GC sales, they can be fraudulently purchased meaning that you either have the GC balance zeroed out before you can use it, or you use it and then get left holding the bag when the police arrive.
22nd of December, 2014: Another extension onto this:
The trust system is invaluable to prevent against scammers. Members may be old but have suspicious trust history, and their trust can help you make a calculated decision.
Do not loan to new users unless you can get collateral OR if they are very trusted due to high-risk services they provide (examples: gambling sites, currency exchange sites), because the chances of them defaulting/scamming are 90%+.
What defines a "new" user?
- Anyone who is a Member, Jr. Member or Newbie
- Anyone who has registered within the last few months
- Anyone with less than ~100-200 posts
- Anyone whose posts mainly consist of spam and/or meaningless posts such as "+1" and "nice post"
- Anyone who refuses to provide collateral or ID for large loans (a general guideline is >0.005 BTC) or states that they can not give it may not be new, but is untrustworthy.
- Anyone who you think is a scammer, because in the Lending sub-forum, 90% of the time, you're probably right.
There has been an influx of people giving loans as high as .85 BTC (remember, that's $100! Edit: At $1000 (per BTC), that's $850, at $500, that's $425.) to newbies who have just registered, and shortly after been stabbed in the back. Don't do it.
Even if the member is not 'new', always try to get collateral! Accounts are regularly bought and sold and 'exit scams' are common, where someone finishes up with Bitcointalk and decides to run off with as much as they can as a 'reward' for the time they spent on their account. If you are going to loan without collateral I would highly recommend only doing so for amounts on the smaller end of the spectrum (<0.005 BTC or so), and to users who have been around for a long time (Hero/Legendary) and have good amounts of positive trust.
What is good collateral for a loan? (From best to worst)
- #1: Alternate stable and well acknowledged cryptocurrencies
- #2: Securities and shares such as TAT.ASICMINER
- #3: Anything that can be traded in somewhere for a secure cash/Bitcoin value quickly
- #4: Physical items such as an iPad
Or, if you can not get collateral:
- Identification that is clear, verified and can be linked to you and trace you Note: This has been less and less commonly accepted recently due to the relative difficulty of doing anything productive with a scammer's ID.
If someone is requesting a loan and meets any of the "new" user criteria, do not loan to them unless you can get collateral. For your own sake.
Also: Invaluable advice from Boelens on bad collateral:
Alright, so, many people have been asking for loans, providing completely no collateral, or not knowing what collateral is. I saw Nimda make a small post on it in a loan topic, but figured I've seen this having explained so many times I figured I'd make a quick topic on it.
What does NOT count as good collateral:
Tell me if I missed anything. Just figured this is a quick good small guideline.
What does NOT count as good collateral:
- Your accounts on anything like Steam, or any other game site. Why? First of all, it's an account, they're not that easy to sell and while you may have 1,000$ in value on there it is not worth 1,000$. Also, you still most likely have e-mail access to it, and you could go to support saying you got hacked. Also, most Terms of Services do not allow the trading of accounts. This is a bad way to provide collateral and I doubt anyone would accept this.
- ID card, or any other personal identification. This is great information to supply upon getting a loan, but this is NOT collateral. Often people do offer it as collateral but generally it is not worth much, because the worst you could do is find personal information and post it online, which is nasty, but some people won't mind, or use a fake ID.
Tell me if I missed anything. Just figured this is a quick good small guideline.
To add to this: Gift Cards are also terrible collateral. Not only are they hard to sell for their full value (you'll probably get more like 50-80%), like with all GC sales, they can be fraudulently purchased meaning that you either have the GC balance zeroed out before you can use it, or you use it and then get left holding the bag when the police arrive.
22nd of December, 2014: Another extension onto this:
Inspite of the best efforts of the lenders and trusted members, there has been a spate of scams. To prevent that use the trust rating wisely.
[1] When giving out a collateral free loan, give a neutral feedback mentioning the loan.
[2] When you receive a loan request, check the trust rating, click on untrusted feedback, and see if there are any ratings which may be of concern.
It should help to detect loanees who take out multiple loans. This seems to be the recent trend these days.
Warnings may not be given as negative feedback but as neutral, so it will not show up unless you go into their trust rating.
[1] When giving out a collateral free loan, give a neutral feedback mentioning the loan.
[2] When you receive a loan request, check the trust rating, click on untrusted feedback, and see if there are any ratings which may be of concern.
It should help to detect loanees who take out multiple loans. This seems to be the recent trend these days.
Warnings may not be given as negative feedback but as neutral, so it will not show up unless you go into their trust rating.
The trust system is invaluable to prevent against scammers. Members may be old but have suspicious trust history, and their trust can help you make a calculated decision.
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