El Salvador Bitcoin payment option - page 2.

Charles-Tim

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I am not an El Salvadorian, so this is based on what I have been reading on news.

Quote from: savetheFORUM on September 23, 2021, 09:22:01 AM

So if I really get you, you mean that it is a must that a merchant will accept bitcoin as a payment from the buyer, and then after accepting the payment from the buy they can decide whether they want it to be converted immediately to fiat, by who?

The official El Salvadorian wallet is called Chivo bitcoin wallet, the wallet can automatically convert bitcoin to dollar, the wallet can handle the payment you are asking about automatically.

Quote from: savetheFORUM on September 23, 2021, 09:22:01 AM

If merchants accepts bitcoin, and since compulsory for them, is it the bank that converts it to fiat for them based on their preference?

All I know is that the Chivo wallet handles that automatically. Dollar can be withdrawn from the Bitcoin ATM, I mean the bitcoin holdings can be withdrawn into cash from the bitcoin ATM. I do not think there should be bank involvement about this, even 70% of Salvadorians are not making use of bank.

Chivo wallet is a custodial wallet, all the conversion are just representation of numbers, nothing happens on the blockchain while converting from dollar to bitcoin or from bitcoin to dollar which will also makes the fee to be zero, I mean while paying in bitcoin but accepting dollar or paying in dollar but accepting bitcoin. I do not read about this, but would be how it will be operating. So bank is not necessarily involved.

Quote from: savetheFORUM on September 23, 2021, 09:22:01 AM

I don’t think this is something that should be forced, it’s a thing of choice, people should decide for themselves.

If you think about how this operate, you will notice is not by force, only that merchants will have Chivo wallet or any wallet of their choice, but they can still decide to finally receive the pay in bitcoin or dollar.

Jasad

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= jasad =

I want all country allow what did by El Savador keep support bitcoin and change the currency revolution by accepting bitcoin as legal payment, left fiat never give any advantage for people and only give benefit for United State country where we use their fiat currency. Using bitcoin as payment transaction more faster and quick for sending or receiving money than fiat.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 08, 2021, 03:30:05 AM

In my opinion, I think this is a welcome development, it can be said that El Salvadorian government are not making Bitcoin payment mandatory (although mandatory) even as it is a legal tender because the payment can be in Bitcoin while the receiver can choose to receive it in fiat and processed automatically.

So if I really get you, you mean that it is a must that a merchant will accept bitcoin as a payment from the buyer, and then after accepting the payment from the buy they can decide whether they want it to be converted immediately to fiat, by who? If merchants accepts bitcoin, and since compulsory for them, is it the bank that converts it to fiat for them based on their preference? I don’t think this is something that should be forced, it’s a thing of choice, people should decide for themselves. There are countries where Bitcoin is legal and merchants decides for themselves whether to add bitcoin as a payment method on their platform or not.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 19, 2021, 06:19:44 AM

El Salvador is now the third country with the highest number of bitcoin ATMs in the world.

Bitcoin ATMs by Country

More correct would be statistics in relation to the population. 1000 bitcoin ATMs for China, and 1000 bitcoin ATMs for example in Montenegro - these are absolutely incomparable indicators, although completely identical. The index which is calculated as follows will be indicative:
Number of Bitcoin ATMs / Number of population of the country

Charles-Tim

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54% of Salvadorans are not familiar with Bitcoin, survey suggests

Quote from: https://cointelegraph.com/news/54-of-salvadorans-are-not-familiar-with-bitcoin-survey-suggests

Research conducted by the São Paulo-based agency Sherlock Communications suggests that 54% of Salvadoran respondents chose ‘none’ when asked which cryptocurrency they knew best out of a list of five leading coins.

While 40% chose Bitcoin over the other listed cryptos – Ether (ETH), Bitcoin, Dogecoin (DOGE)and EOS – the survey did not seek to probe the level or depth of the knowledge these respondents have of the coin.

I was not able to get the original statistical article, also I did not yet know the total number of Salvadorians that were included in the poll.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 19, 2021, 06:19:44 AM

El Salvador is now the third country with the highest number of bitcoin ATMs in the world.

Bitcoin ATMs by Country

That is a bit misleading, because in the United States they have close to 25,000 ATMs and in El Salvador they have only 205. But still good to see El Salvador in the list. One year back, El Salvador was almost an unknown entity in the cryptocurrency market. But nowadays everyone in the sector is talking about them. Once more and more countries start accepting Bitcoin as the legal tender, their importance will fade. But we will always remember El Salvador as the first country which awarded the status of legal tender to Bitcoin.

alpamar99

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 16, 2021, 10:41:30 AM

Quote from: verita1 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:53 PM

Today in El Salvador protester against bitcoin destroyed a point of ATM Chivo.

If opposition party opposed such a move, they will try means citizens will not like the present party in power, we can not say if the crypto ATM destruction is political or not, but this may also be an indication that those that against the El Salvadorian bitcoin law do not know exactly all about it. El Salvador makes bitcoin mandatory in the country but bitcoin use is not mandatory while people can decide to choose to accept bitcoin for payment or it to be processed into dollar immediately without no extra cost. I think this should not result into what is currently happening as dollars can be accepted and be used without even making use of bitcoin at all, but some people may just be ignorant.

if you look at what you say, it's true, actually this is a trivial thing and doesn't need to be raised because if you look at it from the other side they just added a payment option in their country, namely bitcoin but this doesn't mean they are getting rid of the payment system that has been done there.
What I don't understand is why they are demonstrating in this way which seems like this is such a big problem that it indicates riots by burning Chivo ATMs. is there something behind all this?
okay demonstrations are good enough to make our aspirations more acceptable but destroying state facilities is a different matter.

Charles-Tim

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El Salvador is now the third country with the highest number of bitcoin ATMs in the world.

Bitcoin ATMs by Country

Viscore

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Quote from: lixer on September 17, 2021, 05:27:16 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 08, 2021, 03:30:05 AM

In my opinion, I think this is a welcome development, it can be said that El Salvadorian government are not making Bitcoin payment mandatory (although mandatory) even as it is a legal tender because the payment can be in Bitcoin while the receiver can choose to receive it in fiat and processed automatically.

Yeah, it is good how El Salvador has decided to accept Bitcoin fully, but I don’t think people should be forced to make use of it. Things like this should be a matter of choice, if you want to make use of it then you can make use of it, and if not, then you shouldn't. It is good that you have said it’s not really mandatory for anyone to accept it. Those who are not accepting it now, with time they will get to understand it and if it should interest them, then I believe they will go ahead to start making use of it fully.

For now, most of them are going to be afraid because of the value of Bitcoin is volatile and it changes most of the time. So all they need is time to get to understand it , and once they are up to that stage of making use of it, they wouldn't waste time in doing so.

Its more like they are not ready yet not just of the fear inside that they might lose all of a sudden what they all got because of high volatility, but mainly because they lack the understanding needed to be attracted in bitcoin. I know in time they will definitely reach that point but for now, its a good thing that still have the freedom whether to use or not to use bitcoin. And even if they are going to pay in bitcoin, the receiver has always the choice to accept it in fiat. So the citizens are not force to use bitcoin, until the time will come that they started develop the interest to use bitcoin and make it as an advantage.

iv4n

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Quote from: icopress on September 17, 2021, 01:30:35 PM

Quote from: lixer on September 17, 2021, 05:27:16 AM

[...]

Jesus Christ, no one forces anyone to use Bitcoin by default, and even more so no one took away the right of choice from people. Frankly speaking, I am very annoyed by such idiotic discussions, and these fake protests that are being promoted by the media, but be that as it may, I am not able to help those who cannot soberly look through the prism of logic. By the way ... since you are talking about fear, why don't you say that the Bitcoins received from the state can be easily exchanged by the population for their national currency or for the dollar? Instead of looking at the bitcoin rate that changes by a couple of points from day to day, it would be better for people to say thank you to the president for the bonus received.

As always, big guys are playing dirty, it's not a secret, it's just about are you aware of what and how they are doing it or not!

Quote

...El Salvador's adoption of bitcoin as legal tender has immediate negative implications for it credit rating S&P Global said on Thursday. ... Moody's cut its El Salvador rating to Caa1...

Source: https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/el-salvadors-bitcoin-adoption-has-immediate-implications-for-rating-sp-global/article36509514.ece

Things are getting a new dimension I guess! I had a feeling that some global players will arise, and this is probably one of them! I can bet we will see a lot more... Simply speaking when people start using crypto for transfers banks will lose... I wrote few times that some big battle is coming, banks will not give their cut so easily, they know if they give a cut here and there soon they will perish! Does anyone thinks they will do it peacefully?!

icopress

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light_warrior ... 🕯️

Quote from: lixer on September 17, 2021, 05:27:16 AM

[...]

Jesus Christ, no one forces anyone to use Bitcoin by default, and even more so no one took away the right of choice from people. Frankly speaking, I am very annoyed by such idiotic discussions, and these fake protests that are being promoted by the media, but be that as it may, I am not able to help those who cannot soberly look through the prism of logic. By the way ... since you are talking about fear, why don't you say that the Bitcoins received from the state can be easily exchanged by the population for their national currency or for the dollar? Instead of looking at the bitcoin rate that changes by a couple of points from day to day, it would be better for people to say thank you to the president for the bonus received.

lixer

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 08, 2021, 03:30:05 AM

In my opinion, I think this is a welcome development, it can be said that El Salvadorian government are not making Bitcoin payment mandatory (although mandatory) even as it is a legal tender because the payment can be in Bitcoin while the receiver can choose to receive it in fiat and processed automatically.

Yeah, it is good how El Salvador has decided to accept Bitcoin fully, but I don’t think people should be forced to make use of it. Things like this should be a matter of choice, if you want to make use of it then you can make use of it, and if not, then you shouldn't. It is good that you have said it’s not really mandatory for anyone to accept it. Those who are not accepting it now, with time they will get to understand it and if it should interest them, then I believe they will go ahead to start making use of it fully.

For now, most of them are going to be afraid because of the value of Bitcoin is volatile and it changes most of the time. So all they need is time to get to understand it , and once they are up to that stage of making use of it, they wouldn't waste time in doing so.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: Botnake on September 16, 2021, 12:16:29 PM

If only the adoption of bitcoin as a legal tender did not happen in a rush making the preparation too short, then maybe all the citizens might have been fully educated about bitcoin. I guess all these negative things that happen are just a manifestation of lack of education on bitcoin.

The same thing occurred to me about the turmoil due to the seemingly hasty adoption of bitcoin by the government of El Salvador. People are still quite new to the technology that is in bitcoin as a currency and they need good knowledge before implementation has to be legalized. The government of El Salvador also wants to accelerate adoption by installing ATM machine in various places even though people do not have sufficient knowledge to use them. Obviously this provokes a negative reaction from people, especially if political issues are involved. This should serve as a lesson for other countries that want to adopt bitcoin. Everything takes time and a process so that people will be ready to accept and use it when the regulation is established as legal.

Botnake

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 16, 2021, 10:41:30 AM

Quote from: verita1 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:53 PM

Today in El Salvador protester against bitcoin destroyed a point of ATM Chivo.

If opposition party opposed such a move, they will try means citizens will not like the present party in power, we can not say if the crypto ATM destruction is political or not, but this may also be an indication that those that against the El Salvadorian bitcoin law do not know exactly all about it. El Salvador makes bitcoin mandatory in the country but bitcoin use is not mandatory while people can decide to choose to accept bitcoin for payment or it to be processed into dollar immediately without no extra cost. I think this should not result into what is currently happening as dollars can be accepted and be used without even making use of bitcoin at all, but some people may just be ignorant.

This is the latest update of El Salvador wherein someone protests and end up burning an atm bitcoin machine. I wonder why someone had to do this when in fact USD dollar is not even eliminated as a payment method. Yes, bitcoin is mandatory but once the transaction is made, the receiver is till free to accept payment in dollar.

If only the adoption of bitcoin as a legal tender did not happen in a rush making the preparation too short, then maybe all the citizens might have been fully educated about bitcoin. I guess all these negative things that happen are just a manifestation of lack of education on bitcoin.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: verita1 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:53 PM

Today in El Salvador protester against bitcoin destroyed a point of ATM Chivo.

If opposition party opposed such a move, they will try means citizens will not like the present party in power, we can not say if the crypto ATM destruction is political or not, but this may also be an indication that those that against the El Salvadorian bitcoin law do not know exactly all about it. El Salvador makes bitcoin mandatory in the country but bitcoin use is not mandatory while people can decide to choose to accept bitcoin for payment or it to be processed into dollar immediately without no extra cost. I think this should not result into what is currently happening as dollars can be accepted and be used without even making use of bitcoin at all, but some people may just be ignorant.

Sithara007

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Quote from: verita1 on September 15, 2021, 06:19:53 PM

Today in El Salvador protester against bitcoin destroyed a point of ATM Chivo.

https://twitter.com/JBustillo1/status/1438227533028331521?s=19

Is anyone still having doubt about the real intention of these protestors? They destroyed the Bitcoin ATM, because they don't want ordinary people to use it. Ever since the implementation on 7th September, things have been going smooth for the Chivo wallet, and with each passing day it is witnessing increased usage and acceptance. The opposition has gone ballistic, because they never expected the rollout to be such a success. Now they are vandalizing the Bitcoin ATMs and harassing the users, in order to scare away people from using BTC.

verita1

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Another thing is happening in El Salvador besides the fact that people are not familiar with using the Chivo Wallet, the Chivo ATMs and all the technical problems that have arisen since the official launch of bitcoin in the country.

The problem goes further and is the following is the group opposed to the government of President Bukele that just listening to what they say in disagreement with bitcoin delays and distracts Salvadorans.

Today in El Salvador protester against bitcoin destroyed a point of ATM Chivo.

https://twitter.com/JBustillo1/status/1438227533028331521?s=19

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: iv4n on September 15, 2021, 04:36:05 AM

People complain they have problems accessing the wallet, withdrawing money from ATMs, and data verification... many of them didn't get $30 yet! So I guess you are right, they are in the phase of development, but they should test it before they started with it! I saw in the news somewhere that the wallet update is almost ready and soon it will work fine, that is a good thing, but I think they could do a better job before releasing it!
Well, we can only hope that everything will be fine soon! I believe that many eyes are on El Salvador now, watching what will happen with this!

Regarding the $30 airdrop, it is still being processed and I don't think that everyone has received it. The user need to complete his KYC and facial recognition, in order to be qualified to receive the airdrop. And regarding the other issues such as accessing the wallet and not being able to use the ATM, I think the problem is with the users themselves. They may not be educated enough to use the wallet app. Just give it some time. It has been only one week since Bitcoin became the legal tender. I am sure that these issues will go away in the future.

iv4n

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Quote from: Cling18 on September 15, 2021, 03:38:13 AM

El Salvador is in the phase of continuous development and I admire their country for that. It might be hard for other citizens to adopt the new changes due to their new currency but I'm sure that they only need time to accept it. It's an advantage for them especially during this pandemic because we all need digital transactions these days.

People complain they have problems accessing the wallet, withdrawing money from ATMs, and data verification... many of them didn't get $30 yet! So I guess you are right, they are in the phase of development, but they should test it before they started with it! I saw in the news somewhere that the wallet update is almost ready and soon it will work fine, that is a good thing, but I think they could do a better job before releasing it!
Well, we can only hope that everything will be fine soon! I believe that many eyes are on El Salvador now, watching what will happen with this!

jakdanyel

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kycfree

It is nice that the government doesn't make it obligatory to use only Bitcoin when people want to pay for something they buy. This can help people make a healthier decision between their fiat currency and Bitcoin I think. If they forced people to use Bitcoin only, then some people could start getting angry at the government and wouldn't even think of using Bitcoin.

Topic: El Salvador Bitcoin payment option - page 2. (Read 711 times)