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Topic: Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB - page 218. (Read 1061843 times)

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info

The way I work it out (very roughly) is that Eligius generally solves 20+ blocks per day, so 13 will likely take around half a day.
The other way of looking at it is to follow the link to the payment queue, find your address therein, check the "Age" column.
Say, for example, your Age is 1 day 22 hours.
Then look at the top of the queue and at the bottom of the first block. Don't look at the actual top of the first block as that may worry you.
There should be a lot of entries there with a similar age (say for example 2 days 10 hours).
Subtract your Age from that Age and the difference (12 hours) is (roughly) how long it will take you to work your way to the top of the queue.
The actual real amount of time is how long the pool actually takes to solve those 13 blocks that will get you to the top, plus the variance of any more people joining the queue ahead of you as their thresholds are passed and they turn out to have been waiting longer than you for a payout.

Hope that helps, but now I write it down it does sound a little tricky and it took me a while to figure it out myself. YMMV.



Thanks, I will take your advice and try to get a feeling about how I am supposed to approximate those values.
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 100
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken

That is how it's designed to operate. Each share will never receive 100% of it's value paid, so therefore each share will forever sit around in some partially unpaid state. It's a highly convoluted way of charging operating fees without using the word "fee".

Not that fees are bad, they're needed to cover all sorts of things - especially in (effectively) a PPS pool... just misleading the way it's currently advertised.

Ok...

I'm gonna try to explain this.

Miners submit shares. They are converted to an IOU value, which is equivalent to the fair PPS value. However, they are not paid at that time, they are stored in a share log, last-in, first-out.

When a block is found, the pool goes back into the share log, and "pays" as much shares as it can. If the block was unlucky, some of the earliest shares submitted for that block will be unpaid. If the pool was lucky, it will go over, and pay some shares that were unpaid in an earlier unlucky block.

But those shares are not immediately payed, for various reasons. Instead, they go in a payout queue, and when a miner will have accumulated enough to-be-payed shares, they are payed out.

Notice that the pool has not kept any money. It distributes all the money it finds, not more, not less. So it is NOT a fee.

That is CPPSRB. Now the pool has ANOTHER special thing, which is HOW it pays the reward out. The Eligius operators have devised a novel way of paying out, which is to pay out directly from the generation transactions. It has the advantage that the pool never handles money directly, so there is no "hot wallet" an hacker could compromise ans steal.

It imposes some restrictions on how payments are made though. One is that you cannot pay somebody "anytime", only when you find a block. Another is that the coins thus generated will not be able to be spent for 120 blocks instead of 6 as usual.

So, when a user is ready to be payed out (has crossed it's treshold), it is put in the queue, the ones who recieved their latest payment the furthest first, and when a block is found, the first users in the queue will be payed until the reward is entirely consumed. (so a given miner may be pushed back in the queue if another miner crosses it's treshold and has not been payed for longer than him)

It sometimes happen the pool cannot determine who should get payed in the next block. Instead of throwing it away, it instead mines to an offline address, from which the pool operator will do a manual payout from times to times. In essence, it reverts to a "regular" pool, where you have to trust the operator to not run away with the money, because they control it. However, it is still more secure, because the wallet is not online.

Under normal behavior, the payout queue should always be short; a few blocks max. However, when the pool is in failsafe mode, since it finds rewards, but does not pay them out, the queue grows. However, a manual payment is always done every week or so to sort things out.

I hope this clears things!
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken

Just your understanding of how things work is broken.  The pool is operating as it should.

What some people do not understand is that the payout queue and the rewards from CPPSRB are completely independent things. The payout queue is a way to get actual coins to miners in transactions on the network.  The CPPSRB rewards are the way miner's balances at the pool are increased.

You never are further behind or anything.  The payout queue is generally actual coins that will be paid to your address.  The rewards are separate from that.

For me as a noob this sounds like chinese.

So when it says 13 block delay here at my address http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/16bWt62xq5rmQuGscq7L7GuZfYmZkkvN5x

how can I get an estimated value about how long it will take before the BTC arrives in my wallet?

Thank you for your service to mother bitcoin.

The way I work it out (very roughly) is that Eligius generally solves 20+ blocks per day, so 13 will likely take around half a day.
The other way of looking at it is to follow the link to the payment queue, find your address therein, check the "Age" column.
Say, for example, your Age is 1 day 22 hours.
Then look at the top of the queue and at the bottom of the first block. Don't look at the actual top of the first block as that may worry you.
There should be a lot of entries there with a similar age (say for example 2 days 10 hours).
Subtract your Age from that Age and the difference (12 hours) is (roughly) how long it will take you to work your way to the top of the queue.
The actual real amount of time is how long the pool actually takes to solve those 13 blocks that will get you to the top, plus the variance of any more people joining the queue ahead of you as their thresholds are passed and they turn out to have been waiting longer than you for a payout.

Hope that helps, but now I write it down it does sound a little tricky and it took me a while to figure it out myself. YMMV.

legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561
Is the merged mining still working?
Seems I haven't got any Namecoin transfers in a long time.
Is it just me?


Nevermind. Just noticed that the answer is right above.

legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken

Just your understanding of how things work is broken.  The pool is operating as it should.

What some people do not understand is that the payout queue and the rewards from CPPSRB are completely independent things. The payout queue is a way to get actual coins to miners in transactions on the network.  The CPPSRB rewards are the way miner's balances at the pool are increased.

You never are further behind or anything.  The payout queue is generally actual coins that will be paid to your address.  The rewards are separate from that.

For me as a noob this sounds like chinese.

So when it says 13 block delay here at my address http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/16bWt62xq5rmQuGscq7L7GuZfYmZkkvN5x

how can I get an estimated value about how long it will take before the BTC arrives in my wallet?

Thank you for your service to mother bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken





Just your understanding of how things work is broken.  The pool is operating as it should.

What some people do not understand is that the payout queue and the rewards from CPPSRB are completely independent things. The payout queue is a way to get actual coins to miners in transactions on the network.  The CPPSRB rewards are the way miner's balances at the pool are increased.

You never are further behind or anything.  The payout queue is generally actual coins that will be paid to your address.  The rewards are separate from that.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken

That is how it's designed to operate. Each share will never receive 100% of it's value paid, so therefore each share will forever sit around in some partially unpaid state. It's a highly convoluted way of charging operating fees without using the word "fee".

Not that fees are bad, they're needed to cover all sorts of things - especially in (effectively) a PPS pool... just misleading the way it's currently advertised.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
this pool doesn't seem to payout the way it explains itself..  been watching it like a hawk the past week and seems payouts has a mind of its own

a detail on the mechanics (not the theory) would be useful since it doesn't seem to behave in practice as it is intended... basically it seems all accumulated work gets held ransom regardless of current block luck cycles which in theory should be paying out portions past your pay threshold but in practice it just sits there and says you are going further and further behind as if all your current work is old work that has to wait for super luck to include you .. and that doesn't even seem to trigger it either

it is broken



full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
Please do. Saves me the trouble. Tongue

I will do, I just wanted an update, your job is done for now. :-)
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
Thanks for the update!

Aye, now we can quote this over and over again for the next 10 pages of questions. *giggles* ;-)

Please do. Saves me the trouble. Tongue
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
Thanks for the update!

Aye, now we can quote this over and over again for the next 10 pages of questions. *giggles* ;-)

P.S. I have no problem to wait for my NMC. Just keep the pool running.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
For some reason the side Namecoin mining appears to have stopped about a month or so ago...has merged Namecoin mining been disabled?

Last I heard they got hacked (or, at least, noticed suspicious activity) and temporarily shut down NMC.

There was a bug in some old stats code that allowed some SQL injection to the web stats (fixed here) and someone used it to mess up the web server side copy of the My Eligius data.  The pool servers were in no way affected by any of this.  The web server, by definition, is considered insecure and not able to affect pool operations.  Everything pulled from the webserver (signatures for options) is re-verified on other servers.  So, even if an attacker were actually able to compromise the web server (which they didn't) it wouldn't have any real effect.

The NMC payout code runs on another server, pulls this data, reverifies the signatures, and then pays out the proper amount of NMC.  The issue was that my code for re-verifying the signatures was broken and I didn't realize, so, one set of payouts got messed up and used corrupt data.  I fixed the stats bug, fixed any broken options from the previous day's backup, and am in the process of completely rewriting and testing the NMC payout code.

My time has been extremely limited.  Combine that with battling constant DDoS attacks against the pool for nearly a week now and I hope you can understand why this isn't quite complete yet.  I am working on it, haven't forgotten about it, and it will get done.  Also, when I do make the next NMC payout it will include backpay from the last valid payout (Mar 8th I believe off the top of my head) to the next valid payout.  The pool is still mining NMC for you guys and everyone will be paid their NMC.

No offense to anyone, but I have been ignoring most questions about whats going on about NMC (via PM, email, IRC, etc) just because answering the same question 1000x is a waste of time I should be using to actually work on the problem.

Stay tuned.  I'm hoping to have it done today, but no promises.

-wk
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
IMHO they shutdown the payouts, not the merged mining. An offical update on this topic would be nice.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
For some reason the side Namecoin mining appears to have stopped about a month or so ago...has merged Namecoin mining been disabled?

Last I heard they got hacked (or, at least, noticed suspicious activity) and temporarily shut down NMC [payouts].

EDIT: added "payouts" for clarification
sr. member
Activity: 533
Merit: 252
For some reason the side Namecoin mining appears to have stopped about a month or so ago...has merged Namecoin mining been disabled?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
*sigh*

Continuous DoS attacks... although the attacker seems to be running out of resources lately since they're not nearly as strong as they were.

Unfortunately its still enough to play havoc with the webserver.

Too bad the NSA killed IPsec.
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
*sigh*

Continuous DoS attacks... although the attacker seems to be running out of resources lately since they're not nearly as strong as they were.

Unfortunately its still enough to play havoc with the webserver.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
There was a time when the shelved shares almost caught up - I think it was back at 100% for a while. Will that ever happen again?
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
stats are down again?  Sad

EDIT: UP Again.
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