Topic: Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB - page 40. (Read 1061417 times)

Yeah, if I could increase luck, for sure that would be done... but, in that case I probably would head to Las Vegas instead of running a non-profit mining pool. lol.

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at with #2 and your last sentence, so, I'll just do a rundown of how payouts work in general and we'll go from there.

Miners submit shares.  These shares build the share log.  New shares are stacked on top of old shares.  Shares are stored in the share log in the order they are received, tagged to the miner that submitted it along with the value of the share.  They remain there until they're rewarded.  They never expire.

The pool finds a block. The entire block subsidy (currently 25 BTC) and the block's transaction fees are added to the pool's fund counter internally.  The pool uses 100% of its internal funds counter to reward as many shares as possible starting at the top of the share log (most recently submitted share prior to the block being found).  Generally there are at most a few satoshi left in this internal counter, which rolls over to the next round since the sum of the shares paid don't always add up to exactly 25 BTC+transaction fees.  We can't really pay partial shares because that just doesn't make sense and would make the code overly complicated. Much simpler to rollover 8 satoshi to be added to the next round's funds, which evens out anyway because the previous round probably rolled over a few satoshi as well.  But anyway, this increases the "As of last block" balances of all accounts, which is the amount actually earned by the miner and is due to the miner (assuming none of the related blocks are subsequently orphaned/stale).

Then, the block's coinbase transaction is inspected and validated to match a previously generated Eligius coinbase transaction, which would include payout estimates for the current round.  Any addresses paid by the transaction have that amount deducted from their balance at the pool, since it would be paid out.  Generally addresses paid like this will be brought to 0 balance.  Occasionally latency will cause the estimated payout in the coinbase to be a hair lower than it should, and that balance it left in the "As of last block" balance. It's still earned and never lost so it will be paid out, of course.

Sometimes the block's coinbase transaction doesn't directly pay miners and the coinbase transaction instead pays one or more of Eligius's offline wallets.  Usually this happens with quick successive network blocks where the pool wasn't able to verify everything and produce a payout list prior to giving miners new work.  So, miners still have their balance that Eligius owes them ("As of last block"), but it isn't immediately deducted like in the above case since no payout was made to miners yet.  The miners that should have been paid remain in the payout queue.  This is why the payout queue get's longer, generally.  It's always best to get miners on the latest work to reduce stales rather than wait until the pool has verified the payout list and full block template.  The difference is generally just a couple of seconds, but seconds count.

When I process a manual payout, the payout queue is read from the top down and addresses are paid until the offline wallet runs out of funds (there are multiple) or the payout queue is paid in full.  Again, estimates for the current round which are included in the payout queue on the web site are NOT included in manual payouts since this would mean the pool would be paying for a block that hasn't been found yet.  The "As of last block" balance is used, not the sum after current round estimates.

The payout queue is based on the time of the address's last payment from Eligius.  The longer it has been since the last payment, the higher the position in the payout queue.  If a miner's estimate puts them above the minimum payout after they've been mining for a long time to reach their payout threshold, they can enter the queue pretty high in priority.  On the other hand, miners who tend to mine enough to reach the minimum payout will generally end up near the bottom of the queue since their balances are always young.

The payout queue is independent of the shares being rewarded.  100% of every satoshi from every block mined by Eligius is rewarded to our miners.  All of it.  25 BTC+transaction fees.  Unfortunately, paying 2000+ addresses in every block would be silly, so we don't do that. We have a minimum payout.  So a local pool balance builds up ("As of Last Block") until the minimum is reached, at which point the miner enters the payout queue in a position based on their last payout (or first share time if they've never had a payout).  Then they are paid when the pool finds a block that pays the top of the payout queue, or they are paid when I do a manual payout that pays towards the payout queue.

But, not matter how you look at it, 100% of the funds mined by Eligius end up paid to miners.  Obvious exception being donations.

Hope this helps.  I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it.

I don't think that I edited out anything important- just initials for the second wallet address mentioned by the other poster.

1. regarding point#1: it would help to have more luck, but it is unpredictable, as we all know. Close to 100% luck luck during some substantial time frame like several months would definitely be helpful to increase hash rate.
2. regarding payments-maybe I misunderstood the other poster who said that there was a lot of btc in a side wallet(s), which then was partially transferred to a Change wallet. If so, I assumed that it was btc mined prior to the time of manual payout and if it was so, i don't think that current minimal payout level of a particular wallet is relevant and being or not being in the queue might not be relevant as well.

I think that here lies some misunderstanding that quite a few people would like to be clear about: specifically, why you have to be in the queue or above minimal level to get manual payout IF manual payout is for some prior work, assuming that it is so.

thanks

NMC payouts were all caught up yesterday.  My scripts ended up using the wrong difficulty for payout calculation and ended up overpaying NMC by a bit, but... NMC hasn't been worth much of anything for years now anyway.

I finished some more back end updates which seem to be working nicely and keeping things running smoothly.

It is worth mentioning that with the difficulty skyrocketing and such, Eligius's growth hasn't been proportional to the network-wide growth.  So, blocks are taking longer on average, and short term variance is up a bit.  Not much I can do about this, really, but I am up for suggestions on how to pull in some more hash rate.  Seems that the consumer-side of mining is only a small fraction of the network these days anyway, so probably not an easy task.  Plus there's the next block reward halving on the horizon, which is sure to shake things up a bit in the mining community.

In any case, I'm going to continue to make improvements and maintain Eligius in my free time as I have been for years now, regardless of how many blocks per day we mine.


Hmm... not sure what you're asking exactly.

The payout queue is pretty much caught up aside from the roughly one block worth that I didn't bother to dig out of the other offline wallet.  

The 18d3H address is also shared with non-Eligius addresses in the same wallet, just like mentioned for the 1ChANGe one.  So, relying on the balances of these addresses as reported by random blockchain sites is not useful for calculating a balance of what Eligius has for Eligius funds.  That can be determined from the publicly available API data for those who must know, but it's not something I prefer to calculate out and post publicly myself.

The bulk of the remaining offline wallet funds are funds held and currently untouchable in the offline wallets from the withholding attack over a year ago which is awaiting legal confirmation before I can distribute it to affected miners from that time period.

Aside from that, as of now for some stats: there are roughly 30 BTC worth of funds as a the sum of all active miners who haven't yet reached the default or their set minimum payout.  There is about 1 block worth of payout queue backlog in offline wallet funds.  In total if every miner were to be paid their full balance today it would be a total of about 55 BTC.

Shelved shares really are independent of the payout queue and Eligius's offline wallet funds.  Keep in mind that shelved shares do not exist anywhere as actual funds in any wallet anywhere.  They're fiat, to be awarded when possible by the reward system as described under CPPSRB.  When there are shelved shares, Eligius never received funds for those shares to pay out to miners, hence the shelving.  They're shelved until the pool is lucky enough to mine deep enough into the share log to reward them.

Again, not 100% sure what your question was exactly, but hopefully this helps.


You edited your post while I was writing my response.  Without knowing the address, I have no idea.  Again, I paid everything that was in the payout queue at the time, starting at the top, minus that one block that is in the other offline wallet that I didn't think was worth going through the trouble of dealing with for just the partial block worth.  So, you were either in the bottom part of the queue at the time, or you hadn't reached the minimum payout yet.  Keep in mind that manual payouts do NOT pay out the estimates that are included in the payout queue for the current round.

Not sure what exactly happened here. The other poster was saying that those wallets had 500 BTC on jan 13.
Since then there were two manual payouts, which together are roughly what miner(s) were supposed to earn Jan 13-Jan18.
However, I assume that manual payment was for prior work. I could be wrong here, though.
However, luck was probably low and the newly mined shares were a bit lower, so my question is:

1. were these shelved shares fully paid already or we should expect more in form of additional manual payments shortly?
I see that change wallet is pretty much emptied out (~100BTC on 1/18 and 209 BTC on 1/14), but posted 18d3...2B wallet has 298 BTC.

2. Additionally, i have a wallet that was never paid from Change wallet both on 1/14 and 1/18.
Why is that happening if the payment is manual? This miner worked during the period (and did receive regular payout on 1/17)

Please respond.

Both were found using work given from before GBT returned a valid template. Fast successive blocks. These two were actually pretty normal. I explained others in a recent post.

What's with the empty blocks?

https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000043c7fc99118ad62867c4dbc7467c2699b0986850eb542a0

https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000025b3ccdb64de09a66c1f6d0e55d4c9bb55a05f99d710424

Deleted multiple posts about bitcoin forks (from the same person who kept re-posting).  As mentioned, if you want to discuss such things come to #eligius on Freenode.  The topic is not permitted here.

Edit: Deleted additional posts that also have nothing to do with this thread (asking me why I've deleted posts when I've clearly explained).

Edit: This person continues to post, and my script continues to delete them upon notification.  This poster is banned from this thread until further notice.

The time in the payout queue the age of your balance, not an estimated time to payout.

I was looking at "Estimated Position in Payout Queue" 

Not sure what estimate you're looking at.  No where on any Eligius page is there an estimate to when you will receive a payout, since Eligius pays out when blocks are found.

I noticed that my efforts are way down today compared to yesterday. Is that normal.  When I woke up today it said payout is in 2 days and 2 hours.. 8 hours later payout is in 2 days 1 hour and 41 mins.

The blocks to the offline wallet issue is one I've been working on a bit.  A few new changes seem to have broken a couple of things and had Eligius mining "empty" blocks a little more often then it should have been.  However, without the changes it would have been delayed on block changes completely, so, there's that.  Working on a solution and have it mostly implemented.

For background, I've setup the pool so that if it can't get a block template from one of several pool bitcoind's in a reasonable time, it will use the info it has to build a block on top of a validated previous block from one of about a dozen other bitcoinds that I have setup all over the place as part of my little private Eligius block relay network.  This way, even if something lags out the core bitcoind's used for templates, the pool isn't behind the network and miners don't lose out.  In fact, it keeps Eligius pretty quick on block changes.

In the interest of transparency, and I have noted this before, most of the pool donations end up in the same offline wallet as the one I use to do manual payouts.  The 4.5 BTC was the sum of those over some extended period, heading to a Bitpay invoice payment to our datacenter (kudos to them for accepting bitcoin payments from us, although they haven't made this a public thing yet).  The wallet software just mixes and matches coins to make a sensible transaction.  In this case it found input coins that added up to make it so no change address was required, which is generally a good thing.  Local accounting on the client in this case doesn't affect the Eligius cold wallet funds, so it doesn't really matter in the end.  I usually try to include the payments to the datacenter with the manual payouts, but they had asked me about it so I quickly knocked that out. 

Also to note, as of right now Eligius receives in donations roughly 0.0027 BTC per block, as a sum of everyone with a donation amount set.  Not much, but better than nothing.  The vast majority of donations are just people sending donations directly or mining under fun usernames that aren't bitcoin addresses.  My recent favorite is "WIZKID_YOU_WANKER_HERES_SOME_DOUGH" where they mined about 0.5 BTC worth of shares under that username.  Thanks, and thanks to everyone who does donate or has donated!

I wanted to try and sort out the little race condition that was causing the pool to mine more fail-safe blocks than it should be before doing a manual payout, but I hadn't been able to correct it completely and the queue was getting too large so I emptied the one offline wallet (the one with the 1ChAnge type address and the donations) into a manual payout to keep the queue low in the meantime.  393,375 is just about confirmed, so I'm going to do that again shortly now that I think I've got it mostly worked out.

I haven't reviewed the whole Bitcoin-Classic thing in detail just yet, however at first glance it looks like another Bitcoin XT type nonsense cooked up under a new name.  I'll investigate further later.  In the meantime, let's keep altcoin talk elsewhere.  Feel free to come to #eligius on Freenode if you like.

Is KnCMiner done with all the lawsuits against them yet ? They might want to focus on actually delivering the hardware they sell, or properly compensating the customers who invested and got nothing, before drumming their support for some fork.

simply changing code to run classic? Who will buy bitcoin that will be mined essentially as an altcoin, unless majority coalesces, but then it is the same bitcoin with another name. Clearly, mining majority preferred core so far.

Wow, took an hour and a half.
New difficulty level is difficult ! 

Right ! Time for some magic ritual :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19BwrP7fTeU

grrr wtf find a block already

Well there you go!  Thanks   Never meant to imply that anything nefarious was taking place, wizkid is on the up an up.  We have lots of hash and we love it, here; bad luck periods notwithstanding.

The 4.5 might have been a portion of donations or whatnot being cashed in for server fees or other AP who do not accept bitcoin, but that's even more speculation.

If everyone in the pool donates what we do (which is unlikely) then 4 coins is ~2 weeks donations, I wager that it's way less than that and that on average the donations aren't a third of what I'm calculating, so that may have been a month or more payment for servers, bandwidth, etc...

Perhaps some anti-terrorism / extortion measures put into place to protect the pool!

Not odd, the wallet you're referring to is BitPay. Every BitPay account is linked to it.

Looks like that 4.5 BTC was 100% funneled into a wallet that has had over 19k BTC pass through, and is sitting with 4,200 BTC in it.  Odd.