Pages:
Author

Topic: [EMUNIE] THE fastest crypto-currency - page 3. (Read 11691 times)

legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 06, 2015, 05:21:45 PM
#96
I expect that when you do finally issue a white paper, the weakness is going to be the economic model will be gameable such that there is either a loss of Consistency, Availability, or Partition tolerance.

I believe Availability will always be nine nines for any decentralized cryptocurrency and Consistency will always be eventual, so Partition tolerance is the only toy we all can play with.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
November 06, 2015, 05:16:46 PM
#95
That solution for you (if it fits your purpose) will be very fast, then your IO bottleneck with shift to network I imagine?

Network will become a bottleneck at 12'000 TPS (for 100 Mbps).

Yup, partitions my friend, that problem goes away Wink

I expect that when you do finally issue a white paper, the weakness is going to be the economic model will be gameable such that there is either a loss of Consistency, Availability, or Partition tolerance (CAP theorem). Because without a proof-of-work (or proof-of-share[1]) block chain, there is no objective SPOT (single-point-of-truth), which really becomes onerous once partitioning is added to the design because afaics there is then no way to unify the partitioned perspectives. I believe this to be the analogous underlying flaw of Iota and "block list". Challenge with proving this flaw for Iota et al, is to show a game theory that defeats the assumptions of the developers (white paper), e.g. selfish mining game theory against Satoshi's proof-of-work. However, I have argued in Iota's thread that this onus is on them to prove their design doesn't have such a game theory. Otherwise you all can put these designs into the wild and then we can wait to see if they blow up at scale. Note I haven't had enough time to follow up on Iota lately, and I am waiting for them to get all their final analysis into a final white paper, before I sit down and really try to break it beyond just expressing theoretical concerns/doubts.

[1] In PoS the entropy is bounded and thus in theory it should be possible to game the ordering. In theory, there should be a game theory such that the rich always get richer, paralleling the 25 - 33% share selfish mining attack on Satoshi's proof-of-work. However, it is not yet shown how this is always/often a practical issue. Proof-of-share can't distribute shares of the money supply to those who do not already have some of the money supply. Proof-of-share is thus not a debasement power-law flattening (recycling) distribution compatible scheme, although neither is proof-of-work once it is dominated by ASICs. Without recycling of the power-law distribution, velocity-of-money suffers unless debt-driven booms are employed and then government becomes a political expediency to "redistribute from the rich to the poor" (which is then gamed by the rich and periodic class/world warfare). Proof-of-share suffers from conflating coin ownership with mining, thus if not all coin owners are equally incentivized to participate in mining, then the rich control the mining. A coin owner with a holding that is only worth less than his toenail, isn't going to bother with using his share to mine. Thus proof-of-share is very incompatible with the direction towards micro-transactions and micro-shares. Any attempt to correct this by weighting smaller shares more, can then be gamed by the rich who can split their shares into micro-shares. Ideally debasement should be distributed to an asset that users control but the rich can't profitably obtain.

You can't just make a claim out-of-context that an "honest" majority of the trust reputation will decide the winner of a double-spend. You have to model the state machine holistically before you can make any claim.

Proof-of-work eliminates that requirement because each new iteration of a block solution is independent (trials, often simplistically modeled as a Poisson distribution) from the prior one (except to some small extent in selfish mining which is also easily modeled with a few equations). See the selfish-mining paper for the state machine and then imagine how complex the model for his design will be.

This is independence is what I mean when I say the entropy of PoW is open (unbounded), while it is closed for PoS.[1]
hero member
Activity: 597
Merit: 500
November 06, 2015, 04:09:29 PM
#94
@TPTB_need_war
yes, agree. datasinks like mysql etc. doesn't provide predictable query performance under real world conditions.
there are reasons ssd optimized stuff liḱe this exists: http://www.aerospike.com/performance/

reagrding threading and trade offs, just a matter of tools. still waiting for the first crypto project written
with an erlang/mnesia combo. spawn a process costs you 1µs and using mnesia as distributed datasink means you
are working within the same memory space as your application, as a result, fetching data objects is a matter of
a few microseconds, all proven and robust due to erlangs memory protection at VM level.

however, curious to see the final storage setup, delivering those tps, doubt it will be mysql or similar rdbms  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 06, 2015, 12:53:36 PM
#93
Daniel Larimar incorrectly claims in that video that it is not reliable to validate transactions in parallel multithreaded. Nonsense.

Why nonsense, it depends on linearity of the system. For a linear system order doesn't matter, for a non-linear one it does.

PS: We assume that multithreaded execution can't ensure a specific order of events, which is pretty reasonable for current architectures without placing a lot of memory barriers which would degrade the performance significantly.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
November 06, 2015, 09:48:26 AM
#92
Hmmm...Ive found that the major bottlenecks on lower end stuff is actually the IO DB writes/reads and not so much crypto related stuff.  Sure it has a positive effect if you can speed it up, but a good 70%+ of optimizing I do is how to get data over the IO quicker and more efficiently.

What DB system do you use? MySQL? I use http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/nio/MappedByteBuffer.html.
I have just recalled that Emunie does much more than just payments, in this case we cannot compare our solutions, because our cryptocurrency works with payments only and doesn't need to do sophisticated stuff like order matching.

MySQL and Derby for development, probably go with Derby or H2 for V1.0.  

The data stores themselves are abstracted though, so any DB solution can sit behind them with minor work so long as they implement the basic interface.

That solution for you (if it fits your purpose) will be very fast, then your IO bottleneck will mainly shift to network I imagine?

Both of these methods are horridly inefficient. Cripes disk space is not at a premium. Duh!
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
November 06, 2015, 09:25:21 AM
#91
Let's talk software engineering a bit...

Hmmm...Ive found that the major bottlenecks on lower end stuff is actually the IO DB writes/reads and not so much crypto related stuff.  Sure it has a positive effect if you can speed it up, but a good 70%+ of optimizing I do is how to get data over the IO quicker and more efficiently.

That was like word for word what Bytemaster said in this youtube video heh:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBlAVeVFWFM

Daniel Larimar incorrectly claims in that video that it is not reliable to validate transactions in parallel multithreaded. Nonsense. Only if the inputs to a transaction fail to validate would one need to potentially check if some other transactions need to be ordered in front of it, or check if it is a double-spend. And he incorrectly implies that the only way to get high TX/s is to eliminate storing UXTO on disk, because presumably he hasn't conceived of using SSD and/or RAID and/or node partitioning. It is impossible to keep the entire world's UXTO in RAM given 36 bytes of storage for each 256-bit output address+value, given even 1 billion users and several addresses per user. He mentions using indices instead of hashes, but enforcing such determinism over a network makes it extremely brittle (numerous ways such can fail and having addresses assigned by the block chain violates user autonomy and the end-to-end principle) as well even 64-bit hashes are subject to collisions at billion-scale. Essentially he is making the error of optimizing at the low-level while breaking higher-level semantics, because he apparently hasn't gone about the way to really scale and solve the problem at the high-level semantically.

Edit: Fuseleer applies the term "vertical scaling" to describe Bitshare's optimization strategy.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
October 24, 2015, 07:22:08 AM
#90
Small update on our testing.

We've been running a beta test for a couple of days now and did some sustained and burst performance tests to see how things might go in the real world.

Network was about 30 machines, some of which were very low powered, I think we had a couple of micro-EWS Amazon instances and even an Odroid!

The network was also configured to operate in single partition, multiple partition tests will commence soon (near linear multiplier).

First we did a couple of transaction burst tests, IIRC we hit a peak of 550 tx/s, but the guy making the video didn't catch it.  The next one he did and we managed 400 tx/s spike on this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L-VBp2lAI5I

Secondly, we set up a steady sustained spam of about 100-200 tx/s over about 30 mins or so, and then threw multiple bursts on top of that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8jSiUE8VEWc

Enjoy!
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
October 05, 2015, 07:56:46 AM
#89
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
October 03, 2015, 02:28:52 PM
#88
I'll make a thread on here when the time comes. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1004
October 03, 2015, 02:23:37 PM
#87
Is it possible to invest in this project?

Not yet, its not launched and there is no public fundraiser scheduled atm.

This is a cool project, and cryptos need to find a way to be as fast as possible for the masses to want to adopt, due to their fast paced life styles, IMO... so when do you think the official release of this coin will be?  Any ideas?

There are no "deadlines" - we will release when its done. No Deadlines allows us to experiment and find new solutions even though we thought we had found it - and test those out.. We probably have disapointed more people stating deadlines than with no deadlines because people won't get all exiting we are gonna launch soon with tech we have much improved only to get their hopes down.

If you're really interested in the project, you can go to our forum and ask to be a beta tester and help test it out after the founder tests (who tests the "alpha" versions). There will soon be a new beta to be tested.

I was just about to post this very same.   "Its ready when its ready" is our mentality.  I made the mistake of setting deadlines in the past, only to find I wasn't happy with components of the platform, or had discovered a better way to do things.  I've probably thrown away more code and smart ideas developing eMunie over 2+ years than most of crypto combined!

IMO a better product, in any way, is always worth sacrificing deadlines for, providing that myself and those with a real vested interest all agree.  So I don't set deadlines anymore.

With that in mind, the core design hasn't changed for 9+ months now, and I don't see any better ways to do the things we want to do in order to achieve the goals we set, most are already achieved.  Take from that what you will Smiley

Nice, well will you just be opening up another thread asking for more testers for the new up coming beta version? Or will you just be posting that information here? Regardless I'm going to be monitoring this crypto, so I hope the best for what you guys are trying to achieve Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
October 03, 2015, 05:45:22 AM
#86
Is it possible to invest in this project?

Not yet, its not launched and there is no public fundraiser scheduled atm.

This is a cool project, and cryptos need to find a way to be as fast as possible for the masses to want to adopt, due to their fast paced life styles, IMO... so when do you think the official release of this coin will be?  Any ideas?

There are no "deadlines" - we will release when its done. No Deadlines allows us to experiment and find new solutions even though we thought we had found it - and test those out.. We probably have disapointed more people stating deadlines than with no deadlines because people won't get all exiting we are gonna launch soon with tech we have much improved only to get their hopes down.

If you're really interested in the project, you can go to our forum and ask to be a beta tester and help test it out after the founder tests (who tests the "alpha" versions). There will soon be a new beta to be tested.

I was just about to post this very same.   "Its ready when its ready" is our mentality.  I made the mistake of setting deadlines in the past, only to find I wasn't happy with components of the platform, or had discovered a better way to do things.  I've probably thrown away more code and smart ideas developing eMunie over 2+ years than most of crypto combined!

IMO a better product, in any way, is always worth sacrificing deadlines for, providing that myself and those with a real vested interest all agree.  So I don't set deadlines anymore.

With that in mind, the core design hasn't changed for 9+ months now, and I don't see any better ways to do the things we want to do in order to achieve the goals we set, most are already achieved.  Take from that what you will Smiley
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
October 03, 2015, 05:39:07 AM
#85
Is it possible to invest in this project?

Not yet, its not launched and there is no public fundraiser scheduled atm.

This is a cool project, and cryptos need to find a way to be as fast as possible for the masses to want to adopt, due to their fast paced life styles, IMO... so when do you think the official release of this coin will be?  Any ideas?

There are no "deadlines" - we will release when its done. No Deadlines allows us to experiment and find new solutions even though we thought we had found it - and test those out.. We probably have disapointed more people stating deadlines than with no deadlines because people won't get all exiting we are gonna launch soon with tech we have much improved only to get their hopes down.

If you're really interested in the project, you can go to our forum and ask to be a beta tester and help test it out after the founder tests (who tests the "alpha" versions). There will soon be a new beta to be tested.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1004
October 03, 2015, 12:55:53 AM
#84
Is it possible to invest in this project?

Not yet, its not launched and there is no public fundraiser scheduled atm.

This is a cool project, and cryptos need to find a way to be as fast as possible for the masses to want to adopt, due to their fast paced life styles, IMO... so when do you think the official release of this coin will be?  Any ideas?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
October 02, 2015, 07:00:08 PM
#83
yeah. funny how every thread in this forum devolves into "my coin has more nodes than your coin"

You'd think you stepped into 2013, walking in here. right?

People get salty when it comes to new released. It seems like bringing development under covers and moving to a dedicated forum worked worked for the team. We'll be able to judge them by the innovation after the release, even better after the source is out after the release.

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
"to endure to achieve"
October 02, 2015, 12:42:12 PM
#82
@Come-from-Beyond

Haha you are right - I didn't even notice that in the thread title.. Wink
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
October 02, 2015, 12:05:32 PM
#81
Quote
EMUNIE

Can I just politely ask the audience to use the correct way to write the brand: eMunie

Thank you Smiley

I wrote "eMunie" but then saw the thead title...
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
"to endure to achieve"
October 02, 2015, 11:34:46 AM
#80
Quote
EMUNIE

Can I just politely ask the audience to use the correct way to write the brand: eMunie

Thank you Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
October 02, 2015, 11:08:52 AM
#79
Are there reorgs in BTS ledger? If yes - how fast does it do transactions reprocessing? If no - how does it behave after partitioning?
The same questions about EMUNIE.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1018
October 02, 2015, 10:56:33 AM
#78
Can't we enjoy both technologies without turning it into a pissing contest?

It's nothing about "pissing contest", it's technical discussion which can make both systems better.
PS: I wish eMunie only success
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
October 02, 2015, 08:48:58 AM
#77
Can't we enjoy both technologies without turning it into a pissing contest?

I'd prefer that they do.  It's good that they push the tech forward.
Pages:
Jump to: