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Topic: Ending debt slavery - This is why Bitcoin exists and it's begun. - page 2. (Read 1254 times)

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Two points:

1) Is what the EU was doing to Greece really usary or corrupt? Was Greece forced to borrow money? Was the rate higher than market rates? Was Greece forced to pay back early? - if the answer is no, than it was Greece's choice to borrow that money and they should figure out a way to pay it back.

2) The act of borrowing and lending (and the slave like feeling it can cause to those who borrow and don't pay the debt back quickly) isn't a fiat problem, it's a human problem. People and Governments decide to go into debt because they need or want something that they can't pay for. The act of lending actually pushes progress forward because it allows people and Governments to expand their world, business, operations beyond their means. It's not always a bad thing - only when the amount borrowed exceeds what can be paid back.

Debt slavery will occur with Bitcoin because people will always have a need to borrow money.

1. Greece isn't a real thing. It is imaginary and only exists in the minds of man. Representatives of this imaginary thing also exists as being legitimate in the minds of many of men, but there is an argument for it being illegitimate. It is just a maths problem. (Edit: an unsolvable maths problem)

2. If shit was cheaper people could expand their worlds just as easily. How many years would it take if each man physically built his own house? All of his life? 100k for a house at the bottom of the market is unreasonable in my opinion but when I come to be an older man I would expect the inflation to be even greater for the prices to be paid by the currently unborn because no one wants to be at the shitty end of a ponzi scheme.

If bitcoin does reach critical mass it seems a good jump from those at the end of the ponzi of fiat to be an early adopter of something new. Man can still have a head start on the unborn as they have a head start on accumulating, and then history will probably repeat itself because deep down we are all dicks (sometimes).
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Loose lips sink sigs!
Two points:

1) Is what the EU was doing to Greece really usary or corrupt? Was Greece forced to borrow money? Was the rate higher than market rates? Was Greece forced to pay back early? - if the answer is no, than it was Greece's choice to borrow that money and they should figure out a way to pay it back.

2) The act of borrowing and lending (and the slave like feeling it can cause to those who borrow and don't pay the debt back quickly) isn't a fiat problem, it's a human problem. People and Governments decide to go into debt because they need or want something that they can't pay for. The act of lending actually pushes progress forward because it allows people and Governments to expand their world, business, operations beyond their means. It's not always a bad thing - only when the amount borrowed exceeds what can be paid back.

Debt slavery will occur with Bitcoin because people will always have a need to borrow money.
legendary
Activity: 1039
Merit: 1005
Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

How intelligent this decision is remains to be seen.
Greece has been in financial trouble for a long time (it's not only their own responsibility, but to quite some part it is.)
Voting "Yes" or "No" in a referendum is not going to get them out of their financial problems in the short run. The main factor in finance is trust, and they lost almost all trust and credibility. Nobody will want to lend money (be it EUR, USD, RUB, CNY or BTC) to Greece if they know that they most likely won't get it back.
Switching to drachma or bitcoin as national currency will not make things better (except that with a new drachma, they could print their own money as needed, which is an economic strategy that is generally frowned upon in bitcoindom and does not change the debt situation, it just enables national economy to continue to work somewhat.)

I don't have any solution for the greek economy, and I refuse to believe anyone who claims that they have a solution.
One thing is certain: No real solution is possible without significant changes to the greek economy. Political noise without change will not lead to a working economy.

Onkel Paul
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Its a nice read but I see no signs of usuary being made illegal or abolished in the fiat world.
So its business as usual.
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
This statement from Varoufakis the now former Greek finance minister is brave and clearly illustrates what's really happening in the world.

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.


Full Text
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

Quote
The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

This is why Bitcoin was created.
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