Enjoy communism (II): Venezuela to cut 6 zeros from its currency - page 2.

justdimin

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Quote from: Cnut237 on August 27, 2021, 07:29:27 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on August 25, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

I am going to update this thread, so that it is not forgotten, because a parallel thread has appeared wanting to deny the obvious, and saying that hyperinflation in Venezuela has nothing to do with Communism.

The incompetent government in Venezuela is certainly partly to blame. But not exclusively. Venezuela has a long and troubled history due largely to its oil wealth. Communist states are a bad idea, but they don't tend to arise out of nowhere; they are a misguided attempt to fix the failures of the preceding system. I think it's overly simplistic to blame everything on the Red Menace. Reality tends to be coloured more in shades of grey.

That is exactly the part that capitalists always want to ignore. Communist regime in Venezuela lived for so many years, under Chavez they still had problems, not this much and they were handling well enough but it was not this bad, same goes for Cuba these days, Castro managed to make things a little bit more calm there, they might be behind the world in many things like cars, technology and entertainment but they all lived a healthy life with shelter and food for decades (after a huge trouble when revolution happened, it took a while to get there) but when Castro died, so did Cuban dream as well and now it sucks.

However, nobody talks about the fact that the puppets USA installed before these revolutions literally sold the nation, all the oils and everything were sold, given to American companies, and in return they were given trinkets, tiny fractions of what it worths. Which is why neither is good, a proper democracy what these nations need, not an American capitalist puppet, not a communist dictator, a democratic proper nation needs to be built.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on August 27, 2021, 04:27:54 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on August 27, 2021, 04:03:48 PM

"there are many economically successful communist regimes" - do you have such a subtle sense of humor? Or such fat fantasies?

No offense - you can give 1-2 examples from "successful communist regimes" to understand what "success" means to you ... I lived part of my life in a country that built "developed socialism" and paved the way to "communism", and I will tell you this - I regret the lost years "in a successful mode", and I perfectly remember "all the successes" and "achievements" that will make your hair stand on end on your head ...

I'm not a communist, but I can give you one example: "China" isn't an economically successful communist country? Of course, I am not talking about politics here, but about the economy only. The Chinese political system is tyrannical and dictatorial, and there is a lot of injustice in the country, but economically, China is one of the major economic powers in the world and ranks second directly after the United States:

Quote

Nominal GDP Rankings by Country
What are the largest economies in the world? According to the International Monetary Fund, these are the highest ranking countries in the world in nominal GDP:

1 - United States (GDP: 20.49 trillion)
2 - China (GDP: 13.4 trillion)
3 - Japan: (GDP: 4.97 trillion)
4 - Germany: (GDP: 4.00 trillion)
5 - United Kingdom: (GDP: 2.83 trillion)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp

Basically, I am not defending or talking about communism, but the meaning of my words is that communism is not the reason for the collapse of the economy, but rather the failed administration and corrupt governments.

Without the support of the West in 1990-2000+, there would have been no "success for China." Well, it is difficult to call the system, in its pure form, communist. This is a mixture of a totalitarian system, with elements of "manual economic freedom". But as we observe now, totalitarianism is beginning to regain its positions, and it will soon be difficult for "free business". State control and influence is already working, and there is still a smooth transition of management from private owners to state "henchmen"

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 27, 2021, 04:03:48 PM

"there are many economically successful communist regimes" - do you have such a subtle sense of humor? Or such fat fantasies?

No offense - you can give 1-2 examples from "successful communist regimes" to understand what "success" means to you ... I lived part of my life in a country that built "developed socialism" and paved the way to "communism", and I will tell you this - I regret the lost years "in a successful mode", and I perfectly remember "all the successes" and "achievements" that will make your hair stand on end on your head ...

LOL.. even one example is enough for me. I have talked to some of my friends who are ardent supporters of the communist party. When I ask them why socialist countries such as Cuba and Venezuela are in such poor state, they tell me that these countries are not "real" communist/socialist countries. They provide the example of New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden.etc. The claim is that the ruling parties in these countries follow socialism, which is far from reality. If these countries actually had a socialist economy, then they would be as worse as Zimbabwe or Somalia.

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Quote from: DrBeer on August 27, 2021, 04:03:48 PM

"there are many economically successful communist regimes" - do you have such a subtle sense of humor? Or such fat fantasies?

No offense - you can give 1-2 examples from "successful communist regimes" to understand what "success" means to you ... I lived part of my life in a country that built "developed socialism" and paved the way to "communism", and I will tell you this - I regret the lost years "in a successful mode", and I perfectly remember "all the successes" and "achievements" that will make your hair stand on end on your head ...

I'm not a communist, but I can give you one example: "China" isn't an economically successful communist country? Of course, I am not talking about politics here, but about the economy only. The Chinese political system is tyrannical and dictatorial, and there is a lot of injustice in the country, but economically, China is one of the major economic powers in the world and ranks second directly after the United States:

Quote

Nominal GDP Rankings by Country
What are the largest economies in the world? According to the International Monetary Fund, these are the highest ranking countries in the world in nominal GDP:

1 - United States (GDP: 20.49 trillion)
2 - China (GDP: 13.4 trillion)
3 - Japan: (GDP: 4.97 trillion)
4 - Germany: (GDP: 4.00 trillion)
5 - United Kingdom: (GDP: 2.83 trillion)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-gdp

Basically, I am not defending or talking about communism, but the meaning of my words is that communism is not the reason for the collapse of the economy, but rather the failed administration and corrupt governments.

DrBeer

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on August 06, 2021, 03:08:16 PM

I do not think that the issue is related to communism, because there are many economically successful communist regimes, but the issue is related to mismanagement, corruption and the failed government that did not succeed in solving the basic economic problems and instead resorts to temporary solutions instead of searching for a solution to the problem from its roots.
Removing 6 zeros from the currency is a ridiculous game that will not solve the intractable economic problems in Venezuela. It is already a farce. Inflation will continue because they pump more worthless paper currency and they think that this will solve the problem, but the truth is that this will complicate the problem so that it becomes impossible to solve and the economy collapses .

"there are many economically successful communist regimes" - do you have such a subtle sense of humor? Or such fat fantasies?

No offense - you can give 1-2 examples from "successful communist regimes" to understand what "success" means to you ... I lived part of my life in a country that built "developed socialism" and paved the way to "communism", and I will tell you this - I regret the lost years "in a successful mode", and I perfectly remember "all the successes" and "achievements" that will make your hair stand on end on your head ...

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Quote from: Poker Player on August 25, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

I am going to update this thread, so that it is not forgotten, because a parallel thread has appeared wanting to deny the obvious, and saying that hyperinflation in Venezuela has nothing to do with Communism.

The incompetent government in Venezuela is certainly partly to blame. But not exclusively. Venezuela has a long and troubled history due largely to its oil wealth. Communist states are a bad idea, but they don't tend to arise out of nowhere; they are a misguided attempt to fix the failures of the preceding system. I think it's overly simplistic to blame everything on the Red Menace. Reality tends to be coloured more in shades of grey.

Quote from: Poker Player on August 25, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

hyperinflation is characteristic of communist countries

If you are trying to make a general point that hyperinflation occurs exclusively in communist states, and is an inevitability, then this statement is misleading and untrue.

Quote from: Poker Player on August 25, 2021, 01:37:49 AM

Let it not be forgotten [...] So that it is not forgotten.

I wouldn't worry about that happening.

Sanugarid

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Quote from: Xinarae* on August 19, 2021, 11:43:49 PM

The Venezuelan government is studying the mathematical renaming of its currency the sovereign bolivar to make it easier for large corporations to pay. This redirection will reduce to six zeros, making it easier to calculate payments that have now reached higher levels although no official announcement has been made yet. Economically they are very weak venezuela's problem is no longer a matter of their internal politics this crisis has now become a threat to peace on the whole continent this will take time to change.

I think the part where it's a threat to the whole continent is a bit of an overstatement because an economic crisis like this doesn't really affect neighboring countries unless in terms of migration. I think what needs to be done is clean the financial laws in the country because a disheveled laws in terms of finance is only going to make things much worse, at the least when they recover, another problem is solved again.

dkbit98

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Quote from: bitmover on August 08, 2021, 11:50:45 PM

Removing zeroes is a common "solution" for latin america countries

This is the ''solution'' they use in all countries with hyperinflation, and you can find similar example in ex Yugoslavia who in 1992, 1993 and 1994 had paper bills with up to eleven zeros, 10 billion 50 billion and even 500 billion, than they cut zeroes and printed new bills in next few years.
Below is posted one of them that is more famous with face of Nikola Tesla, that can be purchased online even today as collectibles item.
In years after that they printed bunch of paper bills reducing zeros every time, and there was no Bitcoin or other alternative for people at that time.
This was one more example of what communism and socialism results are.

Vice article talking about country with world's poorest billionaires Cool

Poker Player

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Bump.

I am going to update this thread, so that it is not forgotten, because a parallel thread has appeared wanting to deny the obvious, and saying that hyperinflation in Venezuela has nothing to do with Communism.

This is obviously affirmed by a communist CM and has nothing to do with reality, since hyperinflation is characteristic of communist countries:

Hyperinflation in early Soviet Russia

The Soviet Hyperinflation: Its Origins and Impact throughout the Former Republics

The (attempted) price control, which has been repeatedly proven historically to be a disaster since the Edict of Diocletian.

The central planning of the economy that is a disaster from which the saying came out: "They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work"

Let it not be forgotten that the Venezuelan regime is communist, no matter how much they want to deny it:

"In more recent times a Bolivarian communism has developed in Latin America supported by the old communist dictatorship of Cuba. The greatest exponent has been Venezuela's Chavez and Maduro, a tyranny admired by Leninist-Communist Spanish party Podemos, that in just twenty years has completely destroyed a rich country, which owns the largest oil reserves on the planet (larger than Saudi Arabia!), making 15% of its population flee into exile and provoking the same result Communism has always had: repression, torture, enormous corruption,
destruction of freedom and death; hunger and misery for the people and luxury for its leaders."

Source: The massive failure of Communism

It is also worth quoting the principle, which is a good summary:

"I keep engraved in my memory memories of my trip to the Soviet Union in 1983: the fear of the people, the oppressive police presence, the empty shelves in the shops, the desperate black street market and the central lanes of some Moscow avenues reserved for the ZiL limousines of the leaders of the Communist Party. I also remember the fall of the Iron Curtain a few years later and the indelible images of a family fleeing from East Germany and coming out of their ramshackle Trabant car, just across the border from Czechoslovakia, to embrace each other in tears celebrating their recovered freedom.

In the long history of humanity there has never been an ideology more tyrannical or more criminal than Communism, which imprisoned a billion people in its own countries and murdered more than 100 million human beings, five times more than Hitler's and his National Socialism's horrible genocide (Rummel, 1987; Courtois et al, 1997). In absolute terms most of the Communist murders were committed by Lenin and Stalin in the Soviet Union and Mao in China. In relative terms the greatest communist atrocity corresponds to the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, who executed a quarter of their country's population (two million people). In fact, after a century of communist experiments in dozens of countries on four continents we do not find a single example, not one, in which communism has not been synonymous with the destruction of freedom, repression, torture and death, corruption, poverty for the people and luxurious lifestyles for the Party's leaders. Communism was so hellish that the Communist states had to erect walls and wire fences at the borders not to prevent foreigners from entering, but to prevent their own citizens from leaving, eager to flee. It was the first time in
history that borders became the walls of a prison for the citizens of the country."

So that it is not forgotten.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Xinarae* on August 19, 2021, 11:43:49 PM

The Venezuelan government is studying the mathematical renaming of its currency the sovereign bolivar to make it easier for large corporations to pay. This redirection will reduce to six zeros, making it easier to calculate payments that have now reached higher levels although no official announcement has been made yet. Economically they are very weak venezuela's problem is no longer a matter of their internal politics this crisis has now become a threat to peace on the whole continent this will take time to change.

Removing zeroes will not work, as it was tried manytimes before. The original Venezuelan Bolivar was introduced in 1879. The first time they did redenomination was in 2008, when Bolívar Fuerte replaced the original Bolivar at a rate of 1 to 1000. Then in 2018, Bolívar Soberano replaced Bolívar Fuerte at a rate of 1 to 100,000. The government needs to understand that by removing zeroes, they can't control the inflation rate. I am glad that in my country we have a sensible government, at least in this regard.

LUCKMCFLY

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The elimination of the zeros is something that no longer makes sense, at an economic level in a country with a "normal" economy it is equivalent to valuing its currency, its value, but in Venezuela no, in Venezuela removing the 6 zeros is so that the amounts can fit in a document, be it a purchase or a sale, because in the same way the zeros will begin to appear on the right and very quickly.

This will not improve inflation, this will bring comfort to handle figures, in Venezuela what is handled is the dollar or any foreign currency, be it EURO, Colombian pesos, among others, the problem will continue. The communism of Venezuela is the one that really ended everything, and they are exploiting gold reserves, the debt that it maintains with China, Russia practically gave those lands to those countries so that they would exploit it and from there the payment would come out, what happens is that that does not appear in the news, because it is what is really happening, so removing the zeros, it really is nothing, the economic situation has no solution, unless all the rulers leave and that is something impossible, at less so now.

SquallLeonhart

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Quote from: Poker Player on August 06, 2021, 12:17:05 AM

The bad part of the situation in Venezuela does not seem to have a solution in the short term. It does not appear that Biden is willing to invade the country. Not for a humanitarian issue and not for oil. And the little opposition left in the country is too weakened by hunger to mount a revolution. .

That’s really bad, their government keeps making everything worse for the people in that country. Most of the times the problem that a country is having can be caused by the leaders. Although I do know some people may doubt this and maybe find other irrelevant opinions to point at as the cause of their problems, but I do say it starts with the government. Most of those in power are usually corrupt and due to it, it affects the country because of how these corrupt leaders runs it. And it’s very bad when there is no one that can stand against them and speak for the people, they always have to do whatever these bad leaders say. If the government is fixed, then they can fix their economy.

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The Venezuelan government is studying the mathematical renaming of its currency the sovereign bolivar to make it easier for large corporations to pay. This redirection will reduce to six zeros, making it easier to calculate payments that have now reached higher levels although no official announcement has been made yet. Economically they are very weak venezuela's problem is no longer a matter of their internal politics this crisis has now become a threat to peace on the whole continent this will take time to change.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Argoo on August 18, 2021, 12:51:15 PM

Now there are no purely socialist or communist states as they were before. Venezuela is now just an economically backward state. Of course, removing the six zeros on your bolivar banknotes is necessary at least to simplify the calculations. However, this will absolutely not affect the economic state of the country. Here we need to systematically raise the economy. Changing money to circulate for euro, pound or bitcoin will hardly give anything if there is no economic growth.

Don't try to defend something that can never be defended. Pure socialist/communist states do exist, and examples are Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea. Venezuela was a relatively prosperous country, before the socialists came to power in 1999. Venezuela was not economically backward, at least when compared to its neighbors. When Hugo Chavez came to power in 1999, he nationalized almost all the businesses and the economy collapsed as a result. It will take many decades for them to recover, even if they go back to capitalism.

Kyraishi

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This gives the impression of "we have an economic crisis, still instead of doing anything productive to solve it, we are simply going to cover our eyes and ignore the root problem". Indeed, what exactly are they trying to achieve by cutting the 6 zeros?

The only reason that I can think of is to psychologically comfort the citizens that there is no inflation problem, and that everything is in order.

Hopefully the citizens do wake up to this ploy and realise that they are getting duped still. But it's encouraging that a lot of Venezuelans are turning to decentralised cryptos already.

Argoo

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on August 06, 2021, 03:08:16 PM

I do not think that the issue is related to communism, because there are many economically successful communist regimes, but the issue is related to mismanagement, corruption and the failed government that did not succeed in solving the basic economic problems and instead resorts to temporary solutions instead of searching for a solution to the problem from its roots.
Removing 6 zeros from the currency is a ridiculous game that will not solve the intractable economic problems in Venezuela. It is already a farce. Inflation will continue because they pump more worthless paper currency and they think that this will solve the problem, but the truth is that this will complicate the problem so that it becomes impossible to solve and the economy collapses .

Now there are no purely socialist or communist states as they were before. Venezuela is now just an economically backward state. Of course, removing the six zeros on your bolivar banknotes is necessary at least to simplify the calculations. However, this will absolutely not affect the economic state of the country. Here we need to systematically raise the economy. Changing money to circulate for euro, pound or bitcoin will hardly give anything if there is no economic growth.

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Quote from: bitmover on August 08, 2021, 11:50:45 PM

Do you see the value of 100000 in the banknote? You can also see the stamp of 100. The government just cut off 3 zeroes from our money in the 80s and 90s

One more example here. Original 10000 banknote became 10:

Brazil managed to take care of the inflation later on after a few decades... if we only had bitcoin back then, certainly a lot of people would have a better life here.

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on August 09, 2021, 12:27:45 AM

Inflation is a big issue all over Latin America. Apart from Venezuela, Argentina is one country that was very famous for hyperinflation until recently.

My use of the term "communism" is perhaps a bit broad. In general I mean:

Quote from: NeuroticFish on August 07, 2021, 01:36:30 AM

fillippone has found pretty much the best way to express it in words.

Quote from: fillippone on August 06, 2021, 05:51:17 AM

Let's put this way:

Enjoying power groups interfering indebtedly with free markets.

When they do this by design, as in communism, or by "accident" (let's be gentle and put it this way") as in broken democracies, this is recipe for disaster.

Countries that end up in hyperinflation are not typically countries with low taxes, low regulations, ease of business creation, etc. They tend to be the opposite, countries with a lot of intervention in the economy, with rampant and growing public spending, in a headlong rush that stifles private initiative as the engine of economic activity. In general, I would call the latter "communist", although some of them, if we are to speak precisely, are not technically so.

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Quote from: stompix on August 09, 2021, 03:10:48 AM

Quote from: avikz on August 06, 2021, 09:10:45 AM

Another country Zimbabwe is also facing same issues but communism has never taken a step in that country.

Let's see
- an armed paramilitary group with help of NK and other Communist countries soldiers takes control
- a president dictator for 30 years with clear marxist Leninist doctrine
- a party that identifies itself as socialist
- confiscation of land, house and businesses
- redistribution of wealth to the "workers" and the "poor"
30 years later
-famine and poverty all over

If this ain't communism then what happened in the USSR is not communism either.

Robert Mugabe allied with the Soviet bloc during the cold war. And ironically this meant that even the left-wing US politicians had to support minority white governments in the three southern African nations (Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia). Botswana, Swaziland and Lesotho were like buffer states under the influence of South Africa, while the other two countries (Mozambique, Angola) had communist regimes in power and the rebels (UNITA/RENAMO) were supported by South Africa and the NATO bloc nations.

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Quote from: avikz on August 06, 2021, 09:10:45 AM

Another country Zimbabwe is also facing same issues but communism has never taken a step in that country.

Let's see
- an armed paramilitary group with help of NK and other Communist countries soldiers takes control
- a president dictator for 30 years with clear marxist Leninist doctrine
- a party that identifies itself as socialist
- confiscation of land, house and businesses
- redistribution of wealth to the "workers" and the "poor"
30 years later
-famine and poverty all over

If this ain't communism then what happened in the USSR is not communism either.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: bitmover on August 08, 2021, 11:50:45 PM

Brazil managed to take care of the inflation later on after a few decades... if we only had bitcoin back then, certainly a lot of people would have a better life here.

Inflation is a big issue all over Latin America. Apart from Venezuela, Argentina is one country that was very famous for hyperinflation until recently. Actually this is a problem with all the economies, which are overdependent on any one sector. In case of Brazil, the dependence is on agrobusiness and whenever the ethanol or soya prices drop, it puts the economy under enormous pressure. Same was seen in Russia recently. Their economy is overdependent on oil, and RUR lost almost 60% of its value when crude prices plummeted.

Topic: Enjoy communism (II): Venezuela to cut 6 zeros from its currency - page 2. (Read 511 times)