Ethereum is centralized, can we trust it anymore?

Silberman

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on November 13, 2022, 05:18:15 PM

Quote from: Liz Truss on November 13, 2022, 01:33:54 PM

I see no problem investing in ETH to be honest, ETH is still in the lead, IMO. As long as you will use it, I don't know why you would be worried in the first place because it will not affect us as users.

Same here, ETH market is pretty solid and it has liquidity. We don't need to be seriously attached to a cryptocurrency so whether it is centralized or not, as long as it will give us profit, why not take the opportunity to earn from it. Meaning, if we find the ETH market profitable, why not take advantage of it. We are just buying it to sell in higher price anyway.

If you only care about the profits what you say makes sense, but things are never that simple, just take a look at what it is happening with coins which were centralized like Luna and FTT, and even if ethereum has way more trust supporting it and it is nowhere near as vulnerable as those two tokens, the fact that it has become centralized means that it can be more easily manipulated and as such a collapse like that is not out of the question during the next decades, and if you are invested in ethereum at the time your losses could be very high.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 11, 2022, 05:20:05 PM

It's up to you, if you don't care about privacy issues then you can count on it. I trust and invest in ethereum for the profit it brings, so I won't see anything wrong with ethereum. The move to ethereum's POS is a must because there is no way to solve its problems like gas fees and scalability if it doesn't move to POS and can't reduce gas fees, I think people will also leave it soon and choose other blockchains. So it doesn't matter whether it becomes more centralized or not.

Honestly, people investing in cryptocurrencies today are more concerned with profits than privacy. If you want anonymity we have bitcoin, even if eth is decentralized it cant compete with bitcoin.

Most people view Ethereum as an investment tool (not a currency). They wouldn't care if it becomes heavily centralized as long as their pockets are filled with money. Only a very small minority actually care about decentralization, as they're true believers of the technology underpinning ETH. As long as money talks, don't expect things to get better anytime soon.

At least, Vitalik proposed a roadmap to help tackle the issues of centralization surrounding the Blockchain. I'm hopeful ETH will become more decentralized with subsequent network upgrades. Despite becoming less-decentralized with PoS, it's still a far better option than heavily centralized coins such as XRP, BNB, or Solana. I don't think ETH's position on the market will change just because it lost some decentralization after the upgrade. Who knows if it lives alongside BTC for generations? Just my opinion

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 06, 2022, 08:13:06 AM

We all know ethereum merge of PoW to PoS happened recently which reduced the transaction fee a lot but it become more centralized than before so what is going to be the future of ethereum?
(....)

This is a very common problem of Proof-of-stake (POS) protocols, this is already proven with other networks, like Solana or Binance Smart Chain.
A lot of people also bash Ethereum becoming Proof-of-stake (POS) because of the centralization problem. Since they are saying that the solution of scalability is this Proof-of-stake (POS) but the decentralization is now the problem.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: Liz Truss on November 13, 2022, 01:33:54 PM

I see no problem investing in ETH to be honest, ETH is still in the lead, IMO. As long as you will use it, I don't know why you would be worried in the first place because it will not affect us as users.

Same here, ETH market is pretty solid and it has liquidity. We don't need to be seriously attached to a cryptocurrency so whether it is centralized or not, as long as it will give us profit, why not take the opportunity to earn from it. Meaning, if we find the ETH market profitable, why not take advantage of it. We are just buying it to sell in higher price anyway.

Liz Truss

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I see no problem investing in ETH to be honest, ETH is still in the lead, IMO. As long as you will use it, I don't know why you would be worried in the first place because it will not affect us as users.

vv181

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 13, 2022, 09:42:29 AM

Quote from: vv181 on November 13, 2022, 04:21:24 AM

Firstly, I'm gonna reiterate that The Merge does not makes transaction fee cheaper since you seems didn't fully comprehend it, in fact the statement is already addressed as misconceptions(https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/#misconceptions).

For the record you can check the current gas fee of ethereum here : https://etherscan.io/gastracker

It was around 25x higher few months back and if you say this is normal at the time of bull run but even after the end of bull run the uniswap transfer was around 50 dollar but now its around 2.5 and transaction fee for ethereum is less than 50 cents.

Let me make it clear, as you have stated:

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 06, 2022, 08:13:06 AM

ethereum merge of PoW to PoS happened recently which reduced the transaction fee a lot

According to you, The Merge result does affect into transaction fee. That is not technically the case, based on the link I already referred to, The Merge has no intended effect that correlates with the transaction fee. Here I quote it to make it clearer:

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 13, 2022, 09:42:29 AM

Quote from: vv181 on November 13, 2022, 04:21:24 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 12, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

Don't get your point, if something is getting centralized then it is controllable so for an average joe the chances of making profits will become less cause manipulators know when to trigger the button which pours profits in their pockets.

~
But the saying of centralization will market manipulators to have more control is baseless.

Validators are the one who will be controlling the blocks in PoS right so if most of the stake holders are centralized exchanges which are regulated by government or atleast someone who is running behind it may wants to take control of it so its easier with pos than PoW that is what my statement is about manipulation.

I get what you meant, nevertheless, what I'm trying to say is that market manipulation may exists due to centralized entities that can't be separated from the cryptocurrency ecosystem. In a completely decentralized manner of Bitcoin, it is still in effect on the whole market.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: vv181 on November 13, 2022, 04:21:24 AM

Firstly, I'm gonna reiterate that The Merge does not makes transaction fee cheaper since you seems didn't fully comprehend it, in fact the statement is already addressed as misconceptions(https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/#misconceptions).

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 12, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

Don't get your point, if something is getting centralized then it is controllable so for an average joe the chances of making profits will become less cause manipulators know when to trigger the button which pours profits in their pockets.

Either centralization or decentralization is causing control, the difference is the consensus, centralization will limitate the control only to a hand in view, and the opposite gives broader control on each own. Although it is very highly likely probable, centralization won't merely make causality of manipulation. The simple way for the concerned Ethereum holders in regard to centralization is to simply rethink their holding/investment position on ETH.

But the saying of centralization will market manipulators to have more control is baseless.

For the record you can check the current gas fee of ethereum here : https://etherscan.io/gastracker

It was around 25x higher few months back and if you say this is normal at the time of bull run but even after the end of bull run the uniswap transfer was around 50 dollar but now its around 2.5 and transaction fee for ethereum is less than 50 cents.

Validators are the one who will be controlling the blocks in PoS right so if most of the stake holders are centralized exchanges which are regulated by government or atleast someone who is running behind it may wants to take control of it so its easier with pos than PoW that is what my statement is about manipulation.

vv181

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Firstly, I'm gonna reiterate that The Merge does not makes transaction fee cheaper since you seems didn't fully comprehend it, in fact the statement is already addressed as misconceptions(https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/#misconceptions).

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 12, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

Don't get your point, if something is getting centralized then it is controllable so for an average joe the chances of making profits will become less cause manipulators know when to trigger the button which pours profits in their pockets.

Either centralization or decentralization is causing control, the difference is the consensus, centralization will limitate the control only to a hand in view, and the opposite gives broader control on each own. Although it is very highly likely probable, centralization won't merely make causality of manipulation. The simple way for the concerned Ethereum holders in regard to centralization is to simply rethink their holding/investment position on ETH.

But the saying of centralization will market manipulators to have more control is baseless.

diminizio

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cryptos that survive in decentralization are very difficult to rise they become a huge obstacle for government regulation to develop. It is possible that Ethereum has the intention to embrace regulation but it is possible that in the future it will return to decentralization again, this seems strange but crypto is indeed very difficult now.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 12, 2022, 10:16:40 AM

Quote from: DanWalker on November 12, 2022, 01:12:40 AM

`~

Don't get your point, if something is getting centralized then it is controllable so for an average joe the chances of making profits will become less cause manipulators know when to trigger the button which pours profits in their pockets.

Bitcoin is not really anonymous but its completely decentralized so there is a difference between anonymity and authority. If we actually wanted the privacy then monero might be the king but it isn't the case.

If it's about manipulation, I still believe that the crypto market is being manipulated even with bitcoin and not just with centralized altcoins. If we compare bitcoin to gold or stocks, bitcoin is too young, its capitalization is too small and it is not regulated by any legal authority, so the manipulation will never stop. The market is so vulnerable, even a few tweets from Elon caused an immediate reaction from bitcoin or the market. So whether concentrated or not, they are still manipulated, making prices to profit from big forces.

Yes, I agree with you, bitcoin is not really anonymous, it is just decentralized and I think that is enough for us to avoid government control and tracking. Anonymous coins like XMR although very well anonymous but not decentralized like bitcoin and they are being targeted by the government, they are too risky.

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If the centralization of Ethereum brings many benefits to many people I don't matter even though they have to get rid of their crypto characteristics, but crypto still has to grow with whatever it is. If decentralization is difficult in the future, perhaps centralization is a way to get the blessing of the government.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: DanWalker on November 12, 2022, 01:12:40 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 06, 2022, 08:13:06 AM

We all know ethereum merge of PoW to PoS happened recently which reduced the transaction fee a lot but it become more centralized than before so what is going to be the future of ethereum?

Today I saw some blogs related to this so just curious about what bitcointalk community thinks about this merge, the major stake holders of ethereum becomes centralized exchanges which all consists of 64% and all the centralized exchanges are regulated and can be controlled by government so in future if governments make changes in their regulation policies which can affect the ethereum so what will be the future plan of ethereum holders? It can be trusted and still it is good for investment?

In today's market, with the exception of bitcoins and non-custodial wallets, as far as I can tell, all the rest we are using are centralized, from exchanges to altcoins...it's all centralized and we don't seem to care about privacy anymore, we care more about profit. If you need a privacy priority coin we have bitcoin and I think bitcoin alone is enough for us to use. As for ethereum or other altcoins that are just tools to make profits, you don't need to worry about whether they are centralized or decentralized. As long as they are profitable for us, we just need to invest and convert them all to bitcoin on the DEX, we are safe.

Don't get your point, if something is getting centralized then it is controllable so for an average joe the chances of making profits will become less cause manipulators know when to trigger the button which pours profits in their pockets.

Bitcoin is not really anonymous but its completely decentralized so there is a difference between anonymity and authority. If we actually wanted the privacy then monero might be the king but it isn't the case.

DanWalker

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 06, 2022, 08:13:06 AM

We all know ethereum merge of PoW to PoS happened recently which reduced the transaction fee a lot but it become more centralized than before so what is going to be the future of ethereum?

Today I saw some blogs related to this so just curious about what bitcointalk community thinks about this merge, the major stake holders of ethereum becomes centralized exchanges which all consists of 64% and all the centralized exchanges are regulated and can be controlled by government so in future if governments make changes in their regulation policies which can affect the ethereum so what will be the future plan of ethereum holders? It can be trusted and still it is good for investment?

In today's market, with the exception of bitcoins and non-custodial wallets, as far as I can tell, all the rest we are using are centralized, from exchanges to altcoins...it's all centralized and we don't seem to care about privacy anymore, we care more about profit. If you need a privacy priority coin we have bitcoin and I think bitcoin alone is enough for us to use. As for ethereum or other altcoins that are just tools to make profits, you don't need to worry about whether they are centralized or decentralized. As long as they are profitable for us, we just need to invest and convert them all to bitcoin on the DEX, we are safe.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 11, 2022, 05:20:05 PM

It's up to you, if you don't care about privacy issues then you can count on it. I trust and invest in ethereum for the profit it brings, so I won't see anything wrong with ethereum. The move to ethereum's POS is a must because there is no way to solve its problems like gas fees and scalability if it doesn't move to POS and can't reduce gas fees, I think people will also leave it soon and choose other blockchains. So it doesn't matter whether it becomes more centralized or not.

Honestly, people investing in cryptocurrencies today are more concerned with profits than privacy. If you want anonymity we have bitcoin, even if eth is decentralized it cant compete with bitcoin.

For a long time now the only thing that most people care about is nothing else but the profits they can get, and in a way it is disappointing especially if we take into account that this market was created with the idea of giving back the power of creating money to the people, and yet it seems that they are wiling to make any kind of sacrifice as long as they can get the convenience they are looking for and they can earn some money out of this market, but at the same time it is not that surprising otherwise things would have never gotten to this point in the first place.

fuguebtc

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It's up to you, if you don't care about privacy issues then you can count on it. I trust and invest in ethereum for the profit it brings, so I won't see anything wrong with ethereum. The move to ethereum's POS is a must because there is no way to solve its problems like gas fees and scalability if it doesn't move to POS and can't reduce gas fees, I think people will also leave it soon and choose other blockchains. So it doesn't matter whether it becomes more centralized or not.

Honestly, people investing in cryptocurrencies today are more concerned with profits than privacy. If you want anonymity we have bitcoin, even if eth is decentralized it cant compete with bitcoin.

Ziskinberg

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I trusted Ethereum for a long time and it never changes even though it change to PoS. I have never seen a problem about it. In fact, as we can see nothing huge change happened, it was just the price but this won't bother me as I know that situation is not good. But of course, it can be changed once there is something wrong happen with the Ethereum platform and that is so easy to perform. But for now, the support is still strong and many investors/traders believe that this project remains trusted.

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Most of the users were not aware of what Ethereum is a centralized network. Its decisions can be manipulated or subject to influence. People kept using Ethereum because it was backed by miners who contributed to the increase in the value of the token.
The idea of smart contracts was really revolutionary considering the number of cryptocurrencies today. Most of these coins would not exist without Ethereum. Maybe we shouldn't trust this network or any other network, but it seems we don't have much of a choice.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 06, 2022, 08:13:06 AM

We all know ethereum merge of PoW to PoS happened recently which reduced the transaction fee a lot but it become more centralized than before so what is going to be the future of ethereum?

Today I saw some blogs related to this so just curious about what bitcointalk community thinks about this merge, the major stake holders of ethereum becomes centralized exchanges which all consists of 64% and all the centralized exchanges are regulated and can be controlled by government so in future if governments make changes in their regulation policies which can affect the ethereum so what will be the future plan of ethereum holders? It can be trusted and still it is good for investment?

The merge happened last months ago not recently but the transaction fee really have reduced? I didn't expect it but what I heard last time is that people said the fee is still the same. Oh well, maybe the effects is just delayed and now it is being applied. Let see if the fees are still going to be small once we get out of the dip we are experiencing now.

Eth is already centralized even before so people are not really bothered about its current state but despite that, many believes that the future of eth is still going to be bright because it already done some contributions in the past and it was like btc. It's the mother of all altcoins so it's hard for it to be disregarded.

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on November 08, 2022, 09:55:43 PM

You repeated it. But you are wrong. The Merge did not reduce the transaction fee. That upgrade has nothing to do with its fee problem which has been existent for a long time. Ethereum transactions today remain expensive. It is as expensive as before the Merge. Ethereum has yet to address this big and persisting problem.

About its centralization, wasn't it already centralized before the Merge? But Ethereum as an investment isn't really competing against Bitcoin. It is competing against equally centralized altcoins like XRP, BNB, etc. And it seems it is the best one among the bad ones. So if you plan to invest in altcoins, Ethereum remains to be a perfect choice.

The Merge was never about reducing network fees or improving transaction confirmation times. It was all about reducing carbon emissions, effectively resulting in a 99.9% energy-efficient blockchain network. Subsequent network upgrades will target ETH's scaling issues more thoroughly. While the initial phase of The Merge resulted in heavy centralization, things are bound to improve for the better as Vitalik planned some fixes to help address the problem. He said there will be some upgrades that will help tackle the MEV issue to reduce the chance of censorship on the blockchain. There's no designated timeframe for this, but at least we know ETH won't stay centralized forever.

Compared to other chains, I think ETH is still the best option out there after Bitcoin. It's still going strong as the world's second-largest cryptocurrency by market cap despite centralization issues. I'd trust ETH more than BNB, Solana, or XRP which are heavily-centralized "shitcoins". Who knows how far ETH will go? Just my opinion

yazher

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Depends on the situation because this time crypto industry is not the same as before and we might have that probability if they decide to do so but I don't think they can do that with Ethereum because this is the second known cryptocurrency and when they do that, I'm sure it will not be the same anymore and people won't ever trust centralized coins anymore. If you want to invest in ETH you always do so but this time you need to be extra careful you might gonna lose the opportunity right now if you think of it that way because after all, we are here to take risks in our own way and I'm sure, it will be not easy from now after they migrated.

Topic: Ethereum is centralized, can we trust it anymore? (Read 401 times)