Topic: Ethereum is now getting negative coverage in the mainstream media - page 2. (Read 2663 times)
June 19, 2016, 10:09:27 AM
@Geoffrey K. Pullum, University of Edinburgh
June 19, 2016, 10:01:58 AM
Okay. That is too technical. It is beyond my understanding. Do you mind explaining it in layman terms or, at least in bachelor's level?
Does this help?
http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2008/01/19/how-dr-suess-would-prove-the-halting-problem-undecidable/
Scooping the Loop Snooper
an elementary proof of the undecidability of the halting problem
Geoffrey K. Pullum, University of Edinburgh
No program can say what another will do.
Now, I won’t just assert that, I’ll prove it to you:
I will prove that although you might work til you drop,
you can’t predict whether a program will stop.
Imagine we have a procedure called P
that will snoop in the source code of programs to see
there aren’t infinite loops that go round and around;
and P prints the word “Fine!” if no looping is found.
You feed in your code, and the input it needs,
and then P takes them both and it studies and reads
and computes whether things will all end as they should
(as opposed to going loopy the way that they could).
Well, the truth is that P cannot possibly be,
because if you wrote it and gave it to me,
I could use it to set up a logical bind
that would shatter your reason and scramble your mind.
Here’s the trick I would use – and it’s simple to do.
I’d define a procedure – we’ll name the thing Q –
that would take any program and call P (of course!)
to tell if it looped, by reading the source;
And if so, Q would simply print “Loop!” and then stop;
but if no, Q would go right back to the top,
and start off again, looping endlessly back,
til the universe dies and is frozen and black.
And this program called Q wouldn’t stay on the shelf;
I would run it, and (fiendishly) feed it itself.
What behaviour results when I do this with Q?
When it reads its own source, just what will it do?
If P warns of loops, Q will print “Loop!” and quit;
yet P is supposed to speak truly of it.
So if Q’s going to quit, then P should say, “Fine!” –
which will make Q go back to its very first line!
No matter what P would have done, Q will scoop it:
Q uses P’s output to make P look stupid.
If P gets things right then it lies in its tooth;
and if it speaks falsely, it’s telling the truth!
I’ve created a paradox, neat as can be –
and simply by using your putative P.
When you assumed P you stepped into a snare;
Your assumptions have led you right into my lair.
So, how to escape from this logical mess?
I don’t have to tell you; I’m sure you can guess.
By reductio, there cannot possibly be
a procedure that acts like the mythical P.
You can never discover mechanical means
for predicting the acts of computing machines.
It’s something that cannot be done. So we users
must find our own bugs; our computers are losers!
June 19, 2016, 09:49:55 AM
I dont beleve this is a genuine message from the hacker..if it is... his identity will become known in the near future, and you can be sure..that his life will be in danger then. there are mafia and gangs and what not involved with investments in cryptos. they will not let the hacker away with it.
Will these Mafia and gangs also be going after the writer of the DAO code? Seems equally applicable (If not more so since the Mafia and gangs at least will have an appreciation and respect for the skills of the hacker).
June 19, 2016, 09:27:04 AM
Okay. That is too technical. It is beyond my understanding. Do you mind explaining it in layman terms or, at least in bachelor's level?
June 19, 2016, 09:20:49 AM
June 19, 2016, 09:18:59 AM
Bitcoin has often been mentioned negatively in the mainstream press but it is doing well. As long as the fundamentals of the coins are solid, it should withstand scrutiny and negative press.
The issue now is with DAO, not Ether.
The issue now is with DAO, not Ether.
June 19, 2016, 09:11:17 AM
This fudder above just proved my point. Thank you!
June 19, 2016, 08:57:02 AM
Suppose a large bank gets robbed, USD are stolen. Would the mainstream media say, USD is no longer safe? Rubbish.
All the US Mint does is print the cash - it doesn't design bank systems, that is up to the banks. The trouble with this heist is that the design flaw was made by the Ether devs...
June 19, 2016, 08:50:59 AM
Is it only me that thinkss the dao attack will be great for ethereum project? Its like a wake up call, everything worked so well ,something like this had to happen and remember them the project is still far from being perfect and theres alot of work ahead. They probably did more in the past few days than in a whole month, even started a bounty hunt for bugs and fix them at a very fast pace. Ofc there will be alot of fud along the way thanks to btc maximalists that are so scared about competition and are trying to kill it to secure their investment and profits. Eth is dumped for 2 days now with a huge volume of 150mil and i still holding ground, sign that theres alot of buying supp in10-15 range. And as soon as the dumping is over the price will be back to 20+. But only after this dao attack charade is over.
June 18, 2016, 01:43:53 PM
Who is the Bitcoin guru that dump all his coins and move into ETH? I wonder what he will say now.
June 18, 2016, 01:33:48 PM
Suppose a large bank gets robbed, USD are stolen. Would the mainstream media say, USD is no longer safe? Rubbish.
If 10% of the shares of a company are transferred in an unexpected instant to someone who has every incentive to dump them, then this can cause a $billion speculative bubble to deflate.
The valuation of ETH was based on many people believing that significant use cases were right around the corner and that the rampant level of speculation was justified. With a more sober reality, the enthusiasm might be less but I am not sure. What do you think?
Safe can also mean the value is safe. What is the utility of tokens which are devalued by -95% in any instant (assuming ETH drops to $1).
June 18, 2016, 01:29:39 PM
DAO has been hacked/exploited, and Ethereum is rapidly losing trust in their developers, as they want to introduce an ETH hardfork to reverse the hack. What a wonderful decentralized currency where a few people decide what happens and the entire network is subjugated to the decisions of a few. Not to mention Ethereum already has big blockchain, soon ethereum will turn into a centralized bank , if it doesnt die before that.
Here are a few important things:
1) 20 second block timer with average blocksize = 89 Kb, that means that the blockchain grows 375 Mb /day.
The ETH blockchain in 2 years will be bigger by 264 Gb +-
The ETH nodes will start dissapearing pretty quickly with that size, because the reindexing and all other operations you need to perform when you download and update a node, will take far too long for anyone to bother.
Soon only a few datacenters will be able to operate ETH.
2) The development is wreckless, they spend more time on going to PR events than to actually engineer the code well, first wallet softwares were buggy as hell, took years to sync, which is fair because bitcoin was buggy also at first. However instead of promoting a buggy as hell client, they should have focused on development first and then marketing.
3) Ethereum is too complex, and the more complex something is, the more attack surfaces it has. An ideal cryptocurrency has to be simple and secure. And ETH has many more 0 day bugs that we dont know of yet, so this wont be the last hack. It came out far too fast because of PR pressure. The devs should have stayed 1 more year reviewing and researching the code and make the coin secure in that time, before pushing it out to the public.
4) It's already centralized as hell, the devs can just reverse transactions like this. Sure reversing a hack is obviously good right ?, but the road to Hell is also paved with good intentions. Abusing power comes in small increments. First they only reverse hacks, and then later you find out that everyone will become censored.
5) ETH devs want to impose capital controls on ETH holders. The ETH devs don't respect the free market.
The lost cost were already supposedly locked in a child DAO, so then why are they not allowing people to trade? Because they know that people would sell their ETH fast.
Since the legitimately transferred coins are being auto locked in by a Child DAO for almost a month as designed why is he telling exchanges to freeze trading and deposits? Such a comment is outrageous to make in this context.
Oh shit, it gets worse , these guys are literally insane.
There are 3 options for ETH and in the next 27 days the devs and the ETH community will have to decide on one of them, and in my opinion the results will be the following:
1) They decide to not hardfork in which case the thief gets away with the loot but atleast the integrity of ETH is preserved. The result will probably be a massive selloff of ETH and loss of future confidence in the ETH devs as they failed to provide secure code, it will seriously impact the future growth of ETH which they may or may not recover from.
2) They decide to hardfork, in which case all confidence will be lost in ETH, and it will probably deal a fatal blow to this currency's future, and it will shows as an example how a decentralized currency may not be so decentralized, and a warning to all future altcoin devs to change their attitude. It will impact BTC as well, and many media shills will try to put dirt on BTC's reputation as well.
3) They wait the full 27 days and in the last minute they decide 1) or 2). In this case, the panic and uncertainty will just magnify the negative effects caused by their decision, and whichever they decide upon, the effects will just be much worse.
So by logic they should decide 1) and announce it fast, since the longer they wait the more uncertainty they cause by the inaction.
That's just my honest opinion.
I really think people should just switch over to NXT, because it's far more decentralized and it has better developers. When last time a hack happened in NXT, the developers didnt reversed the transaction. Because in the NXT community the decentralization, transparency and fungibility is the number one priority, that supercedes everything else. The police can catch the hacker with any other method and recover the funds, but the decentralization is sacred.
Here are a few important things:
1) 20 second block timer with average blocksize = 89 Kb, that means that the blockchain grows 375 Mb /day.
The ETH blockchain in 2 years will be bigger by 264 Gb +-
The ETH nodes will start dissapearing pretty quickly with that size, because the reindexing and all other operations you need to perform when you download and update a node, will take far too long for anyone to bother.
Soon only a few datacenters will be able to operate ETH.
2) The development is wreckless, they spend more time on going to PR events than to actually engineer the code well, first wallet softwares were buggy as hell, took years to sync, which is fair because bitcoin was buggy also at first. However instead of promoting a buggy as hell client, they should have focused on development first and then marketing.
3) Ethereum is too complex, and the more complex something is, the more attack surfaces it has. An ideal cryptocurrency has to be simple and secure. And ETH has many more 0 day bugs that we dont know of yet, so this wont be the last hack. It came out far too fast because of PR pressure. The devs should have stayed 1 more year reviewing and researching the code and make the coin secure in that time, before pushing it out to the public.
4) It's already centralized as hell, the devs can just reverse transactions like this. Sure reversing a hack is obviously good right ?, but the road to Hell is also paved with good intentions. Abusing power comes in small increments. First they only reverse hacks, and then later you find out that everyone will become censored.
5) ETH devs want to impose capital controls on ETH holders. The ETH devs don't respect the free market.
The lost cost were already supposedly locked in a child DAO, so then why are they not allowing people to trade? Because they know that people would sell their ETH fast.
Since the legitimately transferred coins are being auto locked in by a Child DAO for almost a month as designed why is he telling exchanges to freeze trading and deposits? Such a comment is outrageous to make in this context.
Oh shit, it gets worse , these guys are literally insane.
There are 3 options for ETH and in the next 27 days the devs and the ETH community will have to decide on one of them, and in my opinion the results will be the following:
1) They decide to not hardfork in which case the thief gets away with the loot but atleast the integrity of ETH is preserved. The result will probably be a massive selloff of ETH and loss of future confidence in the ETH devs as they failed to provide secure code, it will seriously impact the future growth of ETH which they may or may not recover from.
2) They decide to hardfork, in which case all confidence will be lost in ETH, and it will probably deal a fatal blow to this currency's future, and it will shows as an example how a decentralized currency may not be so decentralized, and a warning to all future altcoin devs to change their attitude. It will impact BTC as well, and many media shills will try to put dirt on BTC's reputation as well.
3) They wait the full 27 days and in the last minute they decide 1) or 2). In this case, the panic and uncertainty will just magnify the negative effects caused by their decision, and whichever they decide upon, the effects will just be much worse.
So by logic they should decide 1) and announce it fast, since the longer they wait the more uncertainty they cause by the inaction.
That's just my honest opinion.
I really think people should just switch over to NXT, because it's far more decentralized and it has better developers. When last time a hack happened in NXT, the developers didnt reversed the transaction. Because in the NXT community the decentralization, transparency and fungibility is the number one priority, that supercedes everything else. The police can catch the hacker with any other method and recover the funds, but the decentralization is sacred.
Totally agree
June 18, 2016, 01:23:54 PM
With just 27 days to go before the proposed solution becomes ineffective, the digi-currency sits at an extraordinary crossroads: intervene and risk undermining the entire currency, or let the theft pass and risk undermining the entire currency
Checkmate.
or you know, maybe they catch the guy or the guy/hacker wont sell the ETH?
catching him implies he did something illegal, and that does not appear to be the case
June 18, 2016, 01:22:58 PM
Total and utter rubbish. 
ETH is safe and has not been attacked at all. A vehicle using ETH has been attacked.
Suppose a large bank gets robbed, USD are stolen. Would the mainstream media say, USD is no longer safe? Rubbish.
In fact the USD could not be arrested, while the stolen ETH can. This is positive. ETH is still safe and not reversible, but contracts are a different story.
ETH is safe and has not been attacked at all. A vehicle using ETH has been attacked.
Suppose a large bank gets robbed, USD are stolen. Would the mainstream media say, USD is no longer safe? Rubbish.
In fact the USD could not be arrested, while the stolen ETH can. This is positive. ETH is still safe and not reversible, but contracts are a different story.
June 18, 2016, 01:17:24 PM
Price atm is important for Day traders since it only causes short term panic and a drop in price. It doesnt affect the project, it ll probably help the project as a whole and after people will start realising that is not your average proj like monero, dash or other wannabe btc proj, and that devs keep delivering their promisesem price will go up rather fast
The publicity generated by this DAO crisis could be useful to the Ethereum. It might attract more capable codes to help it.
June 18, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
With just 27 days to go before the proposed solution becomes ineffective, the digi-currency sits at an extraordinary crossroads: intervene and risk undermining the entire currency, or let the theft pass and risk undermining the entire currency
Checkmate.
or you know, maybe they catch the guy or the guy/hacker wont sell the ETH?
June 18, 2016, 01:07:22 PM
Price atm is important for Day traders since it only causes short term panic and a drop in price. It doesnt affect the project, it ll probably help the project as a whole and after people will start realising that is not your average proj like monero, dash or other wannabe btc proj, and that devs keep delivering their promisesem price will go up rather fast
June 18, 2016, 12:25:03 PM
I recommend people having a read of the Ether subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/
Some of them are trying to track the culprit, some are arguing for a fork, others that Ether should just take the loss on the chin.
I feel really bad for them, they've all put hard cash into the thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/
Some of them are trying to track the culprit, some are arguing for a fork, others that Ether should just take the loss on the chin.
I feel really bad for them, they've all put hard cash into the thing.
June 18, 2016, 11:38:50 AM
I dont beleve this is a genuine message from the hacker..if it is... his identity will become known in the near future, and you can be sure..that his life will be in danger then. there are mafia and gangs and what not involved with investments in cryptos. they will not let the hacker away with it.
June 18, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
Griff Green mentioned that there are only 500 people capable of this attack, i.e. the broad Ethereum dev community. The message also suggests someone who believed his hack was not stealing because it followed the principles of the code.
The ironic thing is the attacker could have likely keep doing small versions of this without causing the price to tanker. Makes me think it was someone who wanted to make a statement rather than a simple criminal.
So any idea about the identity of the hacker?
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