Topic: Ethic & Sustainable Mining (Read 420 times)

Why would they need to build an ethic and sustainable operation if what they are doing is not illegal in anyway ?
I mean there are so many more business all around the world that causes more damage and yet they are legal so they just pay their taxes.

Look at tobacco companies, they are LITERALLY killing people, I am not even joking, we are talking about a tobacco product that kills more people than guns and yet they are so free you can buy them anywhere you want.

I have no idea how are they even so popular and allowed, weed is literally harmless compared to tobacco but fairly illegal in most of the world. Miners need to do nothing, they continue doing what they are doing and if anyone wants to stop them they should first look at all the other ethical stuff in the world before they go down the list to miners.

Wouldn't it be much better if people weren't mining all of these garbage coins that will never get used for anything other than selling to the next sucker?  I think if any coin deserves to get mined, it's bitcoin just based on its utility alone.  And though I haven't read much about the environmental impact of mining it (but it's definitely interesting to me), I can't see how it's the "most polluting one".  Is that simply because it has the most miners?

Wasn't there a bunch of Chinese miners using hydroelectric power for their mining operation?  I think I recall seeing a picture of a huge warehouse-type place near some waterfall a couple of years ago.  That seems like an ideal way to get the electricity needed to mine.  Not sure if other, cleaner power sources can generate enough wattage to power a huge mining farm like the one I think I saw, but I imagine that that's where miners will end up.  It also seems like it would be far more profitable for them to use power generated off-grid.

It is just a marketing technique to spread FUD in the crypto community.
You know the cryptocurrency industry is not polluting the environment as cars/factories do. There are so many other entities that absorb more power and pollute the environment compared to mining farms.

Don't be naive and adopt the opinion that mining is not environmentally friendly. A mining farm and be supported 100% from solar/renewable energy.

Millions of dollars with almost no employess?Really?I don't believe this.The more mining equipment you have the more people your need for maintenance and security.
Going 100% renewable energy is not doable in the next 10 years,green energy is still very expensive.
We have to deal wit hthe fact that mining will become even more centralized and executed by only a handful of major corporations.

Do not ignore their criticism because I believe the criticism indicates that they only envy miners who make a lot of money without having to have many employees. Energy problems are just as an excuse to bring you down to stop mining. As long as you are sure that the mining that you do does not damage the environment, then continue the mining process because there are many other ways to be able to get environmentally friendly energy.

You are not looking at the bigger picture here. Even though most mining farms only operate with a few individuals, it also creates indirect job opportunities for people in their supply chain. They need specific hardware and resources like, steel racks & air conditioning, electricians and hiring accommodation and plots of land close to their power source.

They also use bandwidth from the local internet provider and they buy food and produce from the local markets and shops. Also, someone must be employed to manufacture the ASIC chips that are used by these mining farms.   

Many projects are switching to POS loot. Like for example ETH. It eats up resources on mining much less.

it's hard to explain to be able to mine ethically, and truly renewable energy "solar energy" can be the best choice, and besides that I think crypto mining is very risky, electromagnetic waves generated by electrical energy can attack body health, and according to the news Wi-Fi signal media can cause brain cancer.

so all of these risks must be ready to be accepted to the crypto miners,

i wouldn't say that. this all boils down to profit motive. if the mining profit motive drives unsustainable energy use (like coal fired generation), that is not "out of the control of bitcoin miners". the bitcoin miners don't give a shit about sustainable energy. they only care about profit. that's the fundamental problem that we as society need to fix.

this is why sensible power plant operators (who need to balance their grid loads) and governments who are serious about sustainable energy need to incentivize bitcoin miners to make the right decision. we need to drive bitcoin miners where there is excess electricity supply. hydro power during rainy season that must be consumed and other things like that.

if you just leave bitcoin miners up to their own devices, they will just opt for the cheapest energy. if that's fossil fuel, of course they'll use it.


that's the ideal but i'm really not sure that's what is actually happening. very few policy makers have actually created economic incentives for this activity.

I don't think that mining necessarily will create a "problem".

What will create a problem is if the energy is not sustainably sourced, and I think that is totally out of the control of bitcoin miners. Furthermore, IIRC a lot of bitcoin mining really just uses up excess electricity that would otherwise have went down the drain anyways. If bitcoin mining uses excess energy, and energy that is sustainably generated, then I really don't see a problem with its high consumption (which isn't really that high if you put it into perspective with other, everyday activities that we accept, like gaming, and traditional banking). Especially when you take into consideration the function that PoW plays in securing the network.

Of course, there will be a lot of instances where eco-friendly electricity isn't available. But I think it's ultimately up to the governments to regulate the source of electricity, not bitcoin miners.

the same thing applies to bitcoin miners spending money on mining facilities and rigs, or bitcoin investors buying BTC. the question here is about the cost to secure the system itself. assuming coins have already been well distributed, staking as a consensus mechanism doesn't expend energy beyond what running network nodes does.

that's actually the fundamental weakness of POS. if coins aren't well distributed enough, the lack of energy expenditure by minters creates a large attack surface. unlike POW, an attacking minter could build on many different attack chains at once without spending anything. that means chain reorg threats for users, so confirmations become less reliable.

I think with the development of more mining, of course there must be regulations so that everything goes according to the existing rules, especially for large miners. so that everything can go well

The mining industry can be treated the same as any other industry. It has externalities and must be regulated. Some country requires businesses/factories to pay more taxes to compensate for its externalities. Some government also requires Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR).

For home scale mining, it's not that significant since they can only draw limited power, and must be registered as a business to draw more power.

Well I see what you mean, that is why I wrote my second sentence, but it did not express my thoughts precisely enough.

I don't have any issues with finding better and sustainable, more green approach to the way we live on this planet and I do support it. What annoys me is that media don't focus on obvious polluting industries simply because they are among us for century or more and then they make elephant out of a fly with things like pollution that comes from something so marginal on grand scale like mining.

Renewable energy for mining is a great idea but like everything
else pertaining energy consumption the change will be slow.

The infrastructure required to reduce car emmisions by creating
EV's is moving at slow pace. Governments are not doing enough
to speed up the process.

Getting infrastructure to homes and business in the form of wind,
wave and solar is another bridge to be crossed.

Are the mining farms going to put their own infrastructure in place?
I doubt it very much.

We can agree that the environmental hazards which results from mining on PoW algorithm is quite exaggerated, maybe due to the skepticism which already exists around bitcoin from the public and what the media puts out.
But going green is a solution that can help both parties. Environmental degradation should not be taken likely.

The only way for the mining sector of bitcoin to be enhanced is through the introduction of renewed equipment and moving from the traditional energy supplying to more advanced way of getting energy supply e.g moving from electricity to solar system this will help in reducing the environmental hazardness and also having new mining softwares will also help in making mining easy and affordable.

This is why many coins are moving over to Proof of Stake, some believe POS is a superior system because it doesn't waste as much electricity and doesn't reward dumpers but the holders instead.

Technically I absolutely agree with you, and I have to admit that at first I was going to say almost the same words. But then I thought it was probably not the best way of conducting a dialog. Playing the blame game will not resolve the problems. Much more people die each year because of road accidents than because of terrorism, but it doesn't mean terrorism shouldn't be dealt with.

I think this is a very useful thread, and regardless of the fact that other industries cause much more damage to the environment, we can try to suggest some solutions here.

Proof of Stake is also "energy wasting" . Where else does money for buying stakes come from if not from energy.  It's a waste of energy if i get 1 million dollar  from coal mining to stake on a PoS coin. Money dont  grow from trees. Energy produces money.

Energy paid for is not wasted esp if it's renewable energy.

Knowing fully well that bitcoin is not controlled by any singular entity whatsoever, it's hard to create an organization that will handle such things. Though even without an organized body that will campaign for the use of renewable and greener energy, many large firms are already heading that way to reduce maintenance costs and boost profits. Not that I'm against the creation of such organization, it's just that firms are already having the initiative to do such. Besides, what good does money do in an environment already dead and damaged beyond repair?

Sure, mining can be continuously with renewable energy. I have never heard about 100% renewable energy, but as far as I know hydropowers can reduce 50%. There are dozens of ICOs associated with this, but I have no idea about whether they are implemented or not.

Bitcoin mining is probably considered as a business which can garner large amounts of income, given the right resources and location of the plant. Although the presence of miners have been continuously increasing, news spreading about its environmental effects are also starting to manifest.
Like what most people have mentioned, one consideration can be shifting its power by to renewable/natural resources for its energy. Many countries practice the use of maximizing their natural resources and converting them to power depending on their geographic location.
Another consideration can be by setting a limitation or cap on power.

I guess the safest way to address the critics is to provide a framework about the proper disposition of pollution. The task is relatively difficult but it is definitely achievable with both sides benefitting.


Many of the industrial problems are caused by companies who monopolized a certain industry, which the general public rely on. Although the waste that they produce certainly affects the environment, the government cannot simply penalized them without giving compromises. Mining, on the other hand, is a relatively new type of business which is on its embryonic stage. From this standpoint, the pollution can be controlled by introducing techniques which can lessen its detrimental effects.

improving the efficiency of solar generation, wind generation, and other sustainable energy sources will play a big role. we're already seeing mining operations gravitate towards regions rich in hydro-electric power due to the excess power that is often generated and must be used.

it's important to look at how much power bitcoin consumes vs how much power was already generated. in other words, what is the net effect of mining? rather than just looking at the sum total of all energy consumption.

it's really not as bad as people make it out to be. things will get better and better as sustainable energy technology improves.


from a policy standpoint, it would be good to create incentives that push miners towards regions with frequent excess power that must be used, and away from regions where they will cause blackouts or increase demand beyond supply. i don't know exactly what good policies would look like, but that would be a worthy goal.

I personally don't buy any of this stuff about mining causing such a huge problems when it comes to electricity usage and pollution. There is far more and far worse industries that spend much more resources and pollute much more then mining will ever be able to do.

Of course it would be best if mining could be done only using renewable energy source, but if people worried so much about pollution and energy efficiency we should first turn our heads toward other much more problematic industries.

I would say that going 100 percent solar and renewable energy is the best.  Compare to before, mining is not  like the way it was before. To some people; it is fading away and not quite profitable as it was before whereas to some it is still profitable and this could be because they are probably mining in an environment where electricity cost is low or using the solar as source of energy. 
If I where to chose, I personally  prefer solar then the usual electricity energy. it's just all about staying on a safer side.

I agree that bitcoin's mining is the safest blockchain but we have to accept that due to its popularity, the sustainability and profitability of mining bitcoin are quite considered as polluted.

I also agree if we will use renewable energy even if it's not solar. The researchers must find ways for the human to have renewable energies so that the sustainability and profitability of any technical stuff will grow. Electricity is one of the vital sources of energy we have today and it is very expensive. Someone needs to find an alternative for the people to have renewable energies.

The mining industry is dying and I am very sad about it. Mining equipment will soon become just memories because of it's a nonprofitability issue.

Ethical mining isn't that easy to be implemented, large scale mining farms can plan for such a resources and implement it. With small rigs it seems to be a big investment to make a setup to get power from such renewable energy resources. To the investment made with small scale rigs it isn't that efficient.

A big part of the electricity consumed by POW mining equipment is converted in the unwanted heat and then swept out by fans. Maybe installing thermoelectric generators(TEGs) inside the equipment could help converting, at least partially, the unwanted heat back into electricity. However, the efficiency of such generators is considered to be very low. Therefore maybe it would be better to use the heat directly where it's needed, for some drying purposes, for example.

Mining takes place where electricity is the cheapest. Electricity is the cheapest where there's a surplus. Surplus electricity currently simply gets lost, if no one is using it. It follows that for the most part mining takes up electricity that would have been produced either way, but would have been lost otherwise. Accordingly the environmental impact of PoW mining appears to be vastly overstated.

Going onto the direction of renewable energy is clearly a good direction. And it may be the only one economically viable, since it's the direction that can guarantee long term profit.
So by helping the earth you help yourself too in a pretty tangible way.

And BTW, while you are bringing up this subject, others have implemented it already. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-about-a-solar-power-source-for-pop-one-price-mining-4415357

Critics overwhelm the Crypto Mining Industry on POW blockchains. Although BTC runs the safest blockchain, it's the most polluting one.
Mining companies can make Thousands if not millions of dollars with almost no employees.
Mining companies can provoke problems in their communities due to the amount of energy usage.

How can we make Mining Operations more sustainable?

Redirecting part of profits towards the problem they cause? Eg: Sustain or fund environmental impact businesses.
Going 100% solar/renewable energy?

How can all the critics be countered? How can we create an ethical mining sector?