ETH's Endgame | Bitcointalksearch.org

Abiky

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Quote from: Coyster on September 11, 2023, 08:42:26 AM

I think it is already too late, they have taken a decision that i can't see them going back on. Ethereum will remain centralized and there is little to no chance of them returning to POW or becoming decentralized again. Big centralized exchanges like Binance and Coinbase, and also Lido which is staking protocol somewhat control the Ethereum blockchain because they are the biggest node validators by a long mile.

There's a lot of money at stake, so don't count on ETH becoming decentralized ever again. It's unfortunate, because the project stepped away from Vitalik's original vision of building a "Decentralized World Computer". At least, we have the original Ethereum blockchain by our side (Ethereum Classic). This last one still uses PoW as its consensus mechanism with a deflationary model just like Bitcoin (no more than 210m ETC will be mined). If the PoS version of ETH dies, ETC will carry on with Ethereum's legacy for the forseeable future.

With that in mind, there's no reason to be worried about Vitalik's death or disappearance. The project is open source, so anyone can "thinker" with it and make a new chain if things go south. Who knows where the community will lead ETH to? Just my opinion

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

Ever since ETH adopted PoS, things have been going into the wrong direction. The network is as centralized as ever with a few big players controlling a large portion of ETH's supply. On top of that, the vast majority of nodes are running on top of Amazon Web Services (AWS).

I'm not sure the future is so far away as it's clear what's showing and pointing towards the next bull cycle shows that ETH is still showing that they're worthy of the position, looking at things like L2 being pursued today or not even with previous ETH competitors, ETH will always be the object of great attention in market movements.

Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

My biggest concern is not only this, but also Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin. The project is too tied around him. So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

I see that as not a problem, what we are looking at is superficially like the story of the leader driving the product, and of course something as big as Ethereum will not be able to succumb to this problem, the team is not only Vitalik, there will be replacements to help the project operate and develop after many generations. The story that comes to mind is that corporations as we know them last for decades, and they continue when the leaders change.

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

Ever since ETH adopted PoS, things have been going into the wrong direction. The network is as centralized as ever with a few big players controlling a large portion of ETH's supply. On top of that, the vast majority of nodes are running on top of Amazon Web Services (AWS). If developers don't do anything about this, ETH will become as bad as XRP in the future. My biggest concern is not only this, but also Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin. The project is too tied around him. So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I think "the problem with AWS" is infinitesimally small compared to other centralization issues of ETH. If the network is truly decentralized, it should tolerate events when 50% of nodes go offline. Why do we even discuss this "problem"? Maybe we see a symptom of bigger problems with ETH.

fmz89

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if vitalik died Cheesy

, eth extinct it may happen, only vitalik the trusted leader in crypto history. back in 2019 he would leaving eth after so many outsider/people around him dictate eth
for pos direction its goes for green energy and many goverment out there chose or adopt crypto this way, nor even crypto, all industry need to be friendly to world around it,
as a miner i would love eth back to pow again, but it wont happen for sure, only btc will stay pow route.

Coyster

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late?

I think it is already too late, they have taken a decision that i can't see them going back on. Ethereum will remain centralized and there is little to no chance of them returning to POW or becoming decentralized again. Big centralized exchanges like Binance and Coinbase, and also Lido which is staking protocol somewhat control the Ethereum blockchain because they are the biggest node validators by a long mile.

Quote from: BitHeir on September 08, 2023, 11:03:34 PM

I don't think we must to bet anything because Ethereum suffered fud in the past about Vitalik's death.

The OP never said Vitalik is dead, they are only talking of the influence which he has over Ethereum project, and if the project will continue smoothly if he is no more, i think it will be very difficult for Ethereum to progress without Vitalik; another person will take over, but so many people will lose interest in the project and prolly sell off their ETH.

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Abiky

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Quote from: noorman0 on September 08, 2023, 10:48:13 PM

Vitalik cannot create a personal initiative to change the ethereum protocol. Ethereum itself has a repository of EIP lists from the community and the implementation approval involves the entire core team. Since its launch ethereum has had 2 forked coins as forms of rejection of the new protocol, ETC and ETHW. Assuming ethereum will have a lot of ecosystem chaos after changing leadership and no longer using the EIP system as consideration of improvements, I think there will be many other forkedcoins in the future.

Regarding price, I still believe that the law of supply and demand applies. In fact, what we expected went the other way, people don't care about de/centralized.

ETC is not a fork, but rather the continuation of the original Ethereum Blockchain. The real fork is ETH with "The DAO" rollback voted only by a few members of the community (but pushed by Vitalik himself). You can see how he still has a strong influence over the project. ETH might survive without Vitalik, but things won't be the same. He's the "mastermind" after all. It's no secret that the ETH blockchain became more centralized after the transition to PoS. If developers don't address this soon, ETH might hit "rock bottom" in the future. I really hope it makes a comeback as a decentralized alternative to Bitcoin. With decentralization, ETH will survive in the long run. Who knows how far will the cryptocurrency go? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

Ever since ETH adopted PoS, things have been going into the wrong direction. The network is as centralized as ever with a few big players controlling a large portion of ETH's supply. On top of that, the vast majority of nodes are running on top of Amazon Web Services (AWS). If developers don't do anything about this, ETH will become as bad as XRP in the future. My biggest concern is not only this, but also Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin. The project is too tied around him. So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Preach. Ethereum can't scale to be used as a world computer, what it was planned to be. People have moved on to other EVM chains due to the fact that gas fees have historically increased to 400 usd + in bull runs, meaning even if you have cryptos to sell for profit, if you try to sell them you will lose money!!!!!!! I've already sold my Ethereum for Polygon and I'm probably going to Fomo into Shimmer and Q Blockchain when they are available for trade on exchanges.

libert19

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Vitalik is young, it's likely going to be long time before Ethereum loses his support.

Quote from: danherbias07 on September 07, 2023, 09:05:55 AM

We know how bad the transaction speed and transaction fees are when they are still in POW.

Merge didn't change anything regarding gas fees, it just changed the consensus. However, it did pave the way for future updates which will scale Ethereum.

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late?

ETH has been an overly centralized and untrustworthy coin ever since they rolled back the chain. It has distinguished itself among altcoins with the possibilities it offers, but it has never been reliable. There is also no benefit in switching from PoW to PoS.
I'm not sure if there is an end game here. Coins can survive without being decentralized. They can maintain their functions even when majority of coins are in certain people. Even if they aren't reliable, they can still be traded on the exchange. ETH will probably be around for a long time.

BlockchainWizard

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

Ever since ETH adopted PoS, things have been going into the wrong direction. The network is as centralized as ever with a few big players controlling a large portion of ETH's supply. On top of that, the vast majority of nodes are running on top of Amazon Web Services (AWS). If developers don't do anything about this, ETH will become as bad as XRP in the future. My biggest concern is not only this, but also Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin. The project is too tied around him. So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ethereum is undergoing an important evolution with the transition to Proof of Stake (PoS) for greater scalability and energy efficiency. It is true that big players have influence, but PoS is intended to incentivize decentralized participation.

Concern about Vitalik Buterin's influence is understandable, but Ethereum is a collaborative project with many talented developers. Wider adoption and use of the platform will help reduce individual dependency.

It's important to pay attention to developments and see how the community responds to challenges. Despite uncertainties, Ethereum's opportunities and potential continue to be promising.

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well its indeed true that famous figure might significantly affect some coins and its even more truer when it comes to ethereum, vitalik himself is like a symbol of ethereum, like father of innovation so surely if something
happened to him then it is almost guaranteed that ethereum is gonna gets affected.
but doesn't mean that its gonna make ethereum suddenly losing its value like that though, the most realistic scenario would be that people are moving on, and maybe eventually realize that some big portion of ethereum could possibly indirectly burned.
but of course it might be grim future for ethereum without all the innovation that was supposed to be coming from the very founder of ethereum.

Xal0lex

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PoS itself did not promise anything that would affect network scalability or lower commissions. I still see comments that the fees remained as high after PoS. But nobody promised that after the consensus change they will be lower, this problem should be solved not by changing the consensus, but by implementing sharding. ETH can be killed by investors themselves if they think that further use of ETH and its holding does not make sense, only it is unlikely to happen. ETH is phenomenal in that despite all its flaws, it is still the titan of the smart contract market, and all the killers of ETH remain in second roles. I am sure this trend will continue in the near future.

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Quote from: BitHeir on September 08, 2023, 11:03:34 PM

Quote from: Abiky on September 08, 2023, 09:08:18 PM

Satoshi Nakamoto never revealed himself to the public, so his absence didn't have a negative effect over BTC's price. With Ethereum, it's different. So many people have associated ETH with Vitalik Buterin these days. If he's dead, you can bet market prices will dump real hard due to panic selling. I know the project has other people behind it, but things won't be the same as they were with Vitalik on-board.

I don't think we must to bet anything because Ethereum suffered fud in the past about Vitalik's death.

Vitalik had to make a self-fie to prove that he was not dead.

Vitalik really want you to know "He isn't dead".

The issue of Vitalik Buterin's death or any other prominent figure in the crypto world can affect the price of Ethereum (ETH) and the overall crypto market in the short term. This is because the crypto market is highly influenced by sentiment and current news. When significant news or rumors emerge about key figures or important events in the crypto world, it can trigger significant price fluctuations.However, it's important to remember that the crypto market is highly volatile and susceptible to various factors, including news, investor sentiment, regulatory changes, and more. The prices of ETH and other crypto assets can fluctuate dramatically in a short period.

BitHeir

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Quote from: Abiky on September 08, 2023, 09:08:18 PM

Satoshi Nakamoto never revealed himself to the public, so his absence didn't have a negative effect over BTC's price. With Ethereum, it's different. So many people have associated ETH with Vitalik Buterin these days. If he's dead, you can bet market prices will dump real hard due to panic selling. I know the project has other people behind it, but things won't be the same as they were with Vitalik on-board.

I don't think we must to bet anything because Ethereum suffered fud in the past about Vitalik's death.

Vitalik had to make a self-fie to prove that he was not dead.

Vitalik really want you to know "He isn't dead".

noorman0

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

-snip-
So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

Vitalik cannot create a personal initiative to change the ethereum protocol. Ethereum itself has a repository of EIP lists from the community and the implementation approval involves the entire core team. Since its launch ethereum has had 2 forked coins as forms of rejection of the new protocol, ETC and ETHW. Assuming ethereum will have a lot of ecosystem chaos after changing leadership and no longer using the EIP system as consideration of improvements, I think there will be many other forkedcoins in the future.

Regarding price, I still believe that the law of supply and demand applies. In fact, what we expected went the other way, people don't care about de/centralized.

Abiky

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Quote from: GreatArkansas on September 07, 2023, 08:59:56 PM

I don't think so. Ethereum is not only run by Vitalik Buterin, but it's also a team and it is decentralized and open-source. So for me, even Vitalik Buterin will not be here anymore, Ethereum still exist, just like Bitcoin now, Satoshi Nakamoto is gone but Bitcoin is still here, running and kicking.
What I am expecting only to happen is on price of Ethereum, it will react, like dump and it will just go up. Just like before when someone spreaded fake news that Vitalik Buterin found dead.

Satoshi Nakamoto never revealed himself to the public, so his absence didn't have a negative effect over BTC's price. With Ethereum, it's different. So many people have associated ETH with Vitalik Buterin these days. If he's dead, you can bet market prices will dump real hard due to panic selling. I know the project has other people behind it, but things won't be the same as they were with Vitalik on-board. Just like Apple which lost its luster after Steve Jobs died. Apple's CEO Tim Cook is not as innovative as Steve Jobs was. Things will be even worse for ETH if it doesn't address centralization issues beforehand.

I sure hope decentralization prevails, so Ethereum could carry on with its mission of "decentralizing the web". No one can predict the futue, so lets hope for the best. Just my opinion

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Quote from: Abiky on September 07, 2023, 07:10:16 AM

Ever since ETH adopted PoS, things have been going into the wrong direction. The network is as centralized as ever with a few big players controlling a large portion of ETH's supply. On top of that, the vast majority of nodes are running on top of Amazon Web Services (AWS). If developers don't do anything about this, ETH will become as bad as XRP in the future. My biggest concern is not only this, but also Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin. The project is too tied around him. So if he dies (God forbid) or something bad happens to him, you expect ETH's market prices to go all the way down the drain in an instant. It's likely ETH will become worthless after this.

What do you think? Is the endgame for ETH approaching? Will it be possible for ETH to become decentralized again? Or is it already too late? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

If Amazon Web Services goes down, other validators will make more money. Vitalik Buterin has already spoken on this topic, and now they are developing a solution so that the node can be run on a smartphone and will improve decentralization. There are many interests of large financial companies in Ethereum, and Vitalik’s departure does not threaten the ecosystem with collapse.

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I have a different viewpoint from yours. While I comprehend your apprehensions, I believe that the foundation of Ethereum is exceptionally robust, and I do not foresee it nearing its conclusion. It's evident that individuals with financial resources can acquire Ethereum in any quantity, and there's no way to prevent them from doing so. Unfortunate events can occur to anyone, but I don't believe they will significantly affect Ethereum since there is always a contingency plan in place, similar to how we designate nominees in banks in case something happens to us and I don't think ETH will decentralized again.

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Quote from: woez on September 07, 2023, 09:55:00 PM

Just an assumption I think. Even if vitalik stays in name, I'm sure there will be lots of new vitalics that will emerge and bring better ETH. I think what was planned by the founder of ETH has been thought through carefully and will not decline even though he is gone and ETH will not be the same as XRP for sure.

He is just a nominal title now, but still though he has that influence to change what is needed and for sure he spearheaded PoW->PoS. So I doubt blame the developers here, it was Vitalik for me in the beginning.

And I do agree that it might bring the downfall of ETH, as describe by the OP it is not very centralized as only a few control of ETH's supply and this is really bad for the market and it's investors and it's just a matter of time before it goes down very hard, in my opinion.

Topic: ETH's Endgame (Read 237 times)