Topic: Every time a new Bitcoin Block is found, US prints $69 million!!! (Read 495 times)

Change has never been easy. And the bigger that change the harder it is going to be to enforce it. Something like this (dedollarisation) is a huge change that is not going to be easy to pull off. It definitely is going to take a long time specially since there are a lot of "resistance" preventing it from happening. Resistance from US trying to prevent it. Resistance from members such as China trying to force their fiat on others preventing BRICS currency from being created and similar problems.
The good news is that the world is on a good path even if that path is being traveled slowly.

I won't see it as an ambitious growth but though we probably won't be alive when this occurs but except there is a top stop dollar from devaluation and God bless you for using this phrase “hedge against inflation” which shows the possibility.

It’s a welcome idea but something still tells me it won’t stand because even in this formed organization they will want to have a superior, China might be taking the lead here. Now should they try to create an alternative coin i feel the kind of decentralization that is supposed to happen to that coin will not be their, there will still be an iota of control by the top countries there same way we are seeing with cryptocurrency Altcoins. For spontaneity a coin like bitcoin is to be adopted but like we say they will want a way to still manipulate or control it.

And everyone says that bitcoin and ASIC miners demonstrate amazing profitability. No! The dollar and $-printers are where the gold mine with crazy profitability is.

OP is right here, arguing that with the current number of dollars, bitcoin should cost completely different money, because the value of the dollar (inflation relative to BTC) is rapidly declining due to this crazy emission. Perhaps this is why bitcoin reached previous ATH even before the halving occurred - unsecured printed dollars were poured into the cryptomarket.

I don't want to make things too technical specially since I'm no expert in the matter but there is a view that economy experts have that says the problem is not with no-cap currency (printing money forever), the problem is where that money goes. Which is what determines "how things are going to fare years from now".

To put simply when governments print money and that money goes into the economy that is growing naturally and on its own, not only this extra printed money doesn't create inflation or any other economic problem but also it helps keep the economy healthy and growing.
However, when they print money to cover budget deficits, create more debt, spend it on anything that is not Domestic Production (GDP!),... that's when you know future doesn't look good. Inflation is guaranteed in such a scheme.

Keep in mind that US economy has a difference because it is the only place that can export its domestic inflation. But also at the same time that only works for so much and for so long until it doesn't like the 70's where things fell apart but they managed to come up with a bigger scam known as Petrodollar to postpone the disaster up to this day.

It's the same situation for altcoins. If they keep "printing" more coins and there is demand to absorb it, things won't be that bad. However we know that altcoins can barely manage to get minimum demand let alone grow it to match their supply.

There is this good site that lists countries with highest amount of debt and also has their GDP and calculates the important debt to GDP ratio.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

US:    $34.4 trillion
China: $14.2 trillion
Japan: $13.2 trillion
UK:     $3.7 trillion

This is not the first time we have heard news about BRIC nations. They have come up with a handful of pronouncements without backing them with the needed actions. Having an alternative to the dollar is a welcome development because the dollarized global economy has become a burden to many economies. There is a need for an alternative global currency and this blockchain-based payment system is ideal for such international trade settlement. This innovation will assist not just BRIC nations but also developing nations that would have to scrabble for scarce dollars before engaging in international trade. I read that this policy will be discussed further during the BRICS summit in October. BRICS nations should talk less and do more because many nations have been enslaved by few currencies. Someone should also tell this organization to hasten up their actions.

scrypt algo of ltc and doge is superior to btc alone. as a pow set of coins.

doge has ever decreasing inflation rates.
it prints x coins a year

year 1 = 1x coins
year 2 = 2x coins 100% rate

year 10 = 10x coins
year 11 = 11x coins  10% rate

year 20 = 20x coins
year 21 = 21x coins 5% rate

combined with shrinking ltc (btc method)

it is the most balanced algo for pow and over the least 3 years the l7 miner has been a steady money earner.

scrypt is here to say. to me they looked at all of btcs flaws and designed a better system.

now btc has bigger money and will use people to attack scrypt because they fear scrypt.
.



much like banks fear btc.

if the usa adapted doges idea of a steady print amount cause ing a lower inflationary percent every year they could possibly get out. but they are simply going to declare brics and enemy and a terrorist currency. they will then use that as a reason to not honor bonds issued to bric countries.

not that I am a go usa guy but they are old white guys with money which means they are dangerous.

Well, there goes centralization and it's like big brother is watching them at all times with these type of transactions. AFAIK, this is happening somewhere in countries like China where most of the payment processors there are controlled and monitored by the government.

Although, they're not owned but most likely the eyes of the government are always on them.

I agree, it will not solve economical problems because it's such a wide thing to get considered to be solved by just this matter.

And, thanks for the links.

That's quite logical answer, I think whatever you have said is 100% true, however who knows what may happen in future. The deficit is the most important reason why those countries won't be able to come with a cause that may help all of them. I think most of the countries are suffering because of extremists and those people who really want to control others and corrupt politicians are doing their best to loot those countries.

The civil wars are also something which we can't avoid when talking about those countries and you're right that most of them have those civil wars and they can't really stop those wars no matter how strong actions they take against them. Another point that you mentioned which's true that all those countries don't want to trade with each other using their own currencies. I believe they don't do such trade because they can't trust their own currencies and they think that their currencies can lose value anytime.

Let's leave all those countries and their so called useless fiat currencies aside and shift our attention to Bitcoin once again. So the only competitor to US dollar in future can be Bitcoin if I'm right. Let's say if Bitcoin gets more value and more market cap and things start changing for Bitcoin once most of it is purchased by huge institutions that fund those ETFs then that could possibly make Bitcoin a good competitor for USD. However, the higher fees, and volatility plus the digital nature of Bitcoin could be some cons which may not allow it to compete USD fully, but I'm very sure when it comes to inflation then Bitcoin could be the only remedy not USD or any other fiat currency.

Let's use basic logic, first grade material.
Russia doesn't want Indian rupiah,
India doesn't want yuan
, nobody wants Iranian rial (see above chart of its value), nobody wants the ruble (obviously), everyone is dumping the South African rand, but suddenly, once all those currencies turn from one piece of shitcoins to one huge pile of shitcoins everyone will want to deal with it?
Seriously, how could one that doesn't trust the currencies and decisions of any BRICS country decide suddenly that all of them mashed together with all their problems will be the coin to be on?

You know the major difference between the Euro and this chimera of a coin?
Every single coin of those making the Euro was trusted and quite stable, here you're mashing countries under sanctions, at war, with sky high deficit, with civil wars, with nutty dictators beating and executing their people while financing terrorist cells and you think the world will magically accept it!
Besides, if they don't want to trade between them in their own currencies, why would they agree to trade in a common currency?  

But no, it doesn't even stop here, it's gets so funny it's cringe material:
Even if Saudi Arabia and the UAE join this trade without the $, their currencies are pegged to a fixed rate to the USD, so it would be like you're not using the $ you're using tether  

I don’t have to imagine this scenario because my country has already a lot of debt that we probably have no idea how to pay off  inflation is rising and your comparison to the us dollar should make other people realize how essential bitcoin is our everyday lives considering the state of most fiat currencies

It’s really high time that we stop saving for nothing and instead start investing for our future

I guess that's mainly because demand of US dollar, we all know that USD is the international currency and anyone who want's to trade goods with other countries most uses USD for the trading purpose. Let's say if a country want to buy oil from another country then the selling country won't accept the buying country's fiat currency for the trade but it will accept USD for the purpose. That's one of the reasons why US dollar isn't losing its value.

I'm not against dollar in any way but if such level of printing continues for long-term and other alternative currencies like that ones which BRICS is thinking about then things will be change over time. Let's say if those BRICS nations made up their own crypto-currencies or CBDCS then and accept those for bi-literal trading then they won't need USD for the purchase of goods and similarly if more countries join BRICS and they also start accepting alternative currencies then dollar will start losing its value.

Everyone is focusing on the US because they hate it and envy it, they don't care about their own country, they are only talking how fast the US will crumble, typical soviet commie doctrine that has now spread worldwide, our govemermnt is incompetent's, we live on $50 a month, but it's not our fault and the leaders we elect, it's those damn Americans!

Look even here, have you seen pooya87 once talking about how bad things are in his own country?
He talks about the death of the dollar while his own currency is doing this:



But yeah the dollar is dying...lol!

As for other countries, well, they obviously ignore China
China’s Debt-to-GDP Ratio Rises a Record of 286.1%
It's not trendy to say China is in trouble, the cool stuff is if you demonize and take a piss on the US economy , even if the US debt to GDP ratio is actually going down after the covid scare and
while printing one trillion the economy grew by 1.6 trillions.




Yeah, because dumping the US bonds and making it cheaper will obviously hurt the US economy.
What could be worse than to buy your debt at 30 cent per dollar!  /s


Then can you explain why the US dollar is absolutely thrashing other currencies in value despite this money priting?
Rupiah, euro, yen, ruble, even the yuan, they all lost value against the $, so, how will the $ loose value again?  

Kind of like dogecoin and all those other altcoins that have some rate of inflation, even if the rate decreases over time?  Yeah, I wonder how those are going to fare years from now.  Then again, there's no guarantees about bitcoin either (though at this point it seems like nothing can kill it).  Both the USD and bitcoin have value because people agree that they do, and if you look at it that way I'd say bitcoin is on shakier ground since it doesn't have a superpower government's guarantee that the face value of a bank note is worth what it says--and yeah, I'm ignoring the debt issue and constant money supply increase here, but hopefully my point is taken.

I'm always hearing about the US's debt and the devaluation of the dollar, but I'm curious how the US compares to other countries.  I don't think I've ever seen a data dump on any other country's debt or money printing before.  The latter might be a peculiar trait of the US economy and the Fed's idiocy, but every country has some amount of debt I believe.  Is the US at the head of the pack, so to speak?

Yeah and it is interesting to know that the only reason why it has taken this long for BRICS to starts its alternative payment system is China! As a member of BRICS China has been trying to push its own cap-less fiat as the alternative to the dollar!

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why the debt is rising this fast is due to the high interest they have to pay on all the junk bonds they've sold.
On the other hand they can't lower interest rates yet without any achievement on the global level. If they do, the inflation will resume inside US then the international bond dump will resume just like pre-interest rate hikes (eg. China dumping $200+ billion of US Treasury Securities) which would weaken dollar more.

They can't not-pay their debt because if they don't, their assets will be seized by the "loan sharks". It's no wonder the homelessness count is skyrocketing in US.
In any case the fact that this debt can never be repaid and they keep creating more of it is one of the reasons why I have been calling the US economy as a whole a "Ponzi scheme". We already know what happens to all Ponzi schemes sooner or later and this one has been running for a very long time.

you do know that when america has bonds with [insert country] and that country also has bonds with america.. they can just both equally write-off the debt to equal amount and thus bring down the debt, when the US owes a second country and that second country owes america and the other country. that second country can calculate its debts and cancel them with america and other country reciprocally doing the same

best representation (note the pocket where bank note came from and went back to):
https://youtu.be/pENxsLVR_Xs
imagine same thing but as a negotiation rather then money changing hands just to come back to source
(settling $60 debt between 3 entities using $10 as a visual guide which ends up back at source thus no money actually changed hands (no loss to initiator))


no because the money print of $3trill a year is where they put <$1tril to pay out interest to creditors which they then use the remaining >$2trill for spending
which they HOPE (people dont use tax loop holes.) that the >$2trill will generate 20%+ of tax revenue a couple times a year
(EG when you buy $100 of goods. the retailer pays corporation tax&sales tax on that $100 received. and then pays employees a wage from leftover part of each $100. where the employee then pays income tax on receipt of their parts of that $100, meaning gov gets multiple snips of tax from the same $100 as it shuffles around, then when employee buys stuff with that income remainder the retailer again pays corp+sales tax on that remainder)

This just heightened my hopes on Bitcoin. It would be worth even $2 million someday because if you do the math, we’re beginning to face its scarcity which so far is one of the reasons why Bitcoin is worth $66k right now. There’s no fiat currency on earth that is worth even a quarter of a quarter of a quarter of Bitcoin and yet they are even making fiat value reduce while Bitcoin is designed to make its value increase.

yeah true, by "pay its bills" I just meant paying the interest due. Obviously the US govt will never be able to pay back the actual debt, but they just have to stay ahead of the interest payments, which get bigger and bigger and bigger.

CBO projects this year interest payments will be $870 billion, surpassing the defense budget. Won't be long until the primary role of taxes is just going to be paying interest on the debt lol.

I don't know when this cookie crumbles, but it will definitely crumble at some point. When it does, for Americans probably the only thing better than owning Bitcoin is going to be owning a piece of land with a home that is self-sufficient. Those two things I think are going to be the main lifelines for individuals whenever this charade crashes down.

The more they governments will continue to experience increase in debt level because they have no target on the total supply of fiat currency that must be printed to be in circulation, this is one of the main reason for having inflation and ways to always be in debt, they will keep printing excessively when they think they are helping the economy, but instead, they are causing havoc to it, because the economic and financial challenges cant be solved in this manner of approval they are taking, its high time they focus on learning from bitcoin and change to readjust be things keep getting more bad than before. 

its more nuanced then that.
the bonds never need to be settled, they just roll them over into another 10 year bond, so they never need to 'always pay its bills'
they are in the game of 'interest only' payments

however an extra trillion bonds($3.35trill new money(debt)) becomes an extra 2%-5% interest only payout($67-$167.5bill)
which can keep the extra $3.35trill in circulation for 20-50 years via interest only
but can earn a government X% per year from taxes of each participant of those handling the money as it shuffles through the population as income/gains/profits etc.

however they need to be raising the ceiling to get money reserves up higher to cover all the pensions amounts(locked as unrealised shares not money) that are earning gains of far higher than the inflation money print is doing
(if a pension fund is accruing 8% on a $300k per capita($24k per year). but the money print is only accruing $10k per capita($3.35trill/335m pop), then a bottleneck will occur when people try to take a 25% lump sum of their pension shares which cant sell, due to lack of funds to perform such large sells)

the next financial crisis will be of pensions

I definitely means something for the US govt. The reason they can keep issuing debt is because America always pays its bill - it always pays it interest on the debt. So no, "they won't mind not paying for it", they absolutely can't not pay for it. As soon as America stops "paying for it" people will lose all faith in the government's ability to honor debt, and people will stop buying the debt. At that point the only thing the US could do is print money to cover debt. Which would quickly debase the USD. Like how inflation got up to 10% a year or so ago, that might become the norm.

One reason the Fed needs to drop interest rates is because higher interest rates means the US govt has to pay higher rates on its debt. So part of the reason deficits are sky high lately is because interest payments on the massive US govt debt is high right now.

Anyway this is not a game the US can win. They will never pay down their debt, and with the interest they have to pay on their debt growing every year, they will never even be able to balance the budget again. Because of the amount of power and influence the US has over money, they can continue keeping this game going for a good while longer probably, but eventually the dam is going to break and the debt and the payments on it are going to get so high that the US is going to be forced to print more money each year and debase the currency and the economy is going to go into a tailspin as things get more and more expensive against the dollar at an every expanding rate.

Bitcoiners will be fine, but people purely in the USD system are going to be screwed, as will the US. There is definitely a financial reckoning coming for the US. May take decades longer to hit, but it is coming. The financial path of the govt is simply not sustainable and eventually its going to break.

firstly todays "debt" becomes tomorrows GDP

secondly the 34+trillion is not M0-M2 money in normal citizen hands circulation.
the banks/institutions and government need/want to raise the ceiling of money printing and push it into the background economy of the institutional circulation(to avoid citizen level hyper inflation)
because the top tiers of derivatives and institutional investment products are valuated at hundreds of trillions so needs to see there is enough "dollars printed" to even come close to enough reserves to cover payouts if those top tier investments were to ever sell out of their positions without causing a massive economic crash(pensioner boom reach retirement age and choose to take lump sum, but not enough money available to cover cash-out(risk))

yep they need to fill the pockets of top tier institutions reserves, to keep all the trillions of pension/private investments within fair market value for when people sell out/claim pensions
(average m0-m1 'savings/spending accounts) per US citizen ~$25k =$8.4trill)
(average m2-m3 'retirement/investments accounts) per US citizen ~$300k =$100trill)

Huh, that's an interesting way to look at it. I agree that it's wonderful to have a limited supply and a regulated pace of creation of new coins that we have with Bitcoin than have a limitless fiat system. What's interesting, though, is that despite a lot of concerns, the US keeps getting away with all that printing. If you look at the USD annual inflation rate, it's one of the most stable fiat currencies and its inflation is usually below 5%. They're playing with fire, but they're playing well. So while Bitcoin is great for investment, the USD is an acceptable fiat currency and an acceptable reserve currency.

Governments can not use Bitcoin to solve their macroeconomic problems, they can not and Bitcoin can not.

Citizens can not print money, fiat currency, can not mint CBDCs. Governments and central banks can and by using CBDCs, with blockchains, they will have better tools to watch our money flows. For what? They do it for tax.

I believe they aim at tax on citizens because it will help them to gain more money from citizens.

The main problem of macroeconomic is the government, not the citizens.

Can we, as a citizen prints money? nope, so there's no point for them to watch our money flows.

We're treated unfairly because they use one-way system instead of two-way system. In one-way system they can know everything we have, but we can't know what actually the government have. In two-way system, both of each other know everything and this would give the citizen to have a control over the government instead of agreeing with every action and decision that made by the government.

They can create their CBDCs that are helpful for them to control and trace their citizens' money flows better with their centralized CBDC blockchains. For citizens, it's not helpful and more like fearful as they will have more observing eyes and tools to trace their money flows.

CBDCs help those countries launch it by that mean but CBDCs can not help them to solve anything in their economy.

See progress of some nations toward CBDCs.
https://cbdctracker.org/
https://cbdctalks.com/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

But those numbers don't mean anything to the US government right? Because those debts come from their own banks so even if they have that much debt, they won't mind not paying for it right? It's scary for the average US citizen though, they're definitely the one that's bearing the brunt of these problems, they're the ones that will feel the effects of inflation and at the same time will also be the one that would have to spend more money to buy stuff, it's really stupid of a lot of these people that they always do this kind of thing because they know that their circle and the big corporations that are funding their campaigns and war chests, I guess when the natural law is that you save yourself before everyone else, you're definitely going to see this kind of freakshow. Bitcoin really does spit on the face of fiat and banks with how much is printed compared to a block, puts you into a perspective that would lead you to be radical about your financial status.

They're going to make their own CBDC as per what the news have said about them making a new economy.

This alliance don't have their control over Bitcoin and that's why they might end up with the same thing as what US did, to print more of their money and have more supply. The thing is, to whom and which currency they're going to rely on.

From what I've read, it's gonna be with the Chinese Yuan (Renminbi).

They can still have control Bitcoin in terms of their market share but they need to hold vast of it compared to the institutions that are holding a lot of it so, the influence of theirs is there.

Bitcoin may solve their problems(decrease of reliance on the USD), but let's not forget that they probably would still want some level of control over the currency or payment system; in which they wouldn't have any control with Bitcoin. That's just pretty much it.

I knew this would happen when they removed the debt ceiling. They should of rose it a little and made cuts along the way to reduce it.

Problem is that this help is paid for by bonds and those bonds demand a 5% coupon right now, so they are getting deeper and deeper into this hole, especially when interest rates are still elevated. No idea if they will ever be able to reduce the steepening of the curve and make it more flat.

Your headline is misleading. The U.S. debt is not the same as the USD money supply.

Your thread just came timely. BRICS group are planning to create a payment system using blockchain to reduce the dependence on dollar for international transactions.

It was crystal clear since that BRICS has targeted to lower the dependence on dollar so as to reduce the power of the US but the problem has always been which currency should they make as a central currency. Any country currency picked will have given that country extra power.

Let me not go off topic, can someone tell BRICS that bitcoin is here to solve there problems and they don’t need to create anything again.

Fiat is not sustainable and it will finally have to face huge inflation spikes over the years until it's fully devalued. But, since this topic is mostly related to Bitcoin and US dollar so comparing other fiat won't be reliable. If US continues printing that much then surely in years US dollar will lose its value. But, Bitcoin's supply is limited and when US dollar and other fiat currencies continue losing value, Bitcoin will continue gaining value.

It's a bold statement to say that 1 Satoshi will be $1 because for that Bitcoin will have to reach $100M per coin which's unlikely to happen in a decade or two. However, I'm pretty sure we will see 1 Satoshi at $0.01-$0.05 in two decades.

Does it matter? US still dominates the majority of the international trades. They are still the biggest millitary equipment supplier in the world. They are still ready to attack any country to acquire oil fields. US knows how to maintain the dominance.

So the US dollar is still the leader in the market. They have to still pay for NATO and United Nations. US has been printing astronomical amount of money since COVID. Did it affect their economy to any large extent?

It's truly incredible how much money is printed, it's a truly frightening speed, and those who will pay the bill are the tax-paying citizens with all their assets being devalued over the years.

This kind of thing just goes to show us that we made the best possible choice in our lives: buying bitcoin

Great Topic and thank you for renewing my faith a little more.

That's the magic about the current money, it's an infinite element, govs can get into infinite debt and nothing will happen, no one will come to them and say "Hey! You have to pay your debt", and this is because the debt is not only in the government hands, the debt is in the civilians hands too... Each time a civilian gets a bank loan to buy a house or to buy a car, then this debt increases, and USA is the country with the biggest access to credit. Almost anyone can go to the bank and get a loan for anything.

Printing is a favorite habit of central banks in all countries, they don't stop printing money.

About the USA, I am not surprised as their debt increase a lot since the pandemic.
See US debt clock. The debt number is $34,485,020,xxx,xxx and it is even bigger then total debt of China and Japan, at the second and third positions.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

I think the phrase “hedge against inflation” which is a strong attribute of bitcoin is seriously downplayed or say under rated. One thing have found is that on paper or public the dollar doesn’t looks like something that has problem but it’s devaluing seriously and this doesn’t only affects dollar alone, most of the world countries suffering economic crises are associated to the devaluation of the fiat currency. The bitcoin adoption rate of developing countries tells why it is just a matter of time before bitcoin is fully embraced as an alternative to fiat. Not a financial advice but regardless of the volatility I will definitely save up on bitcoin than hoard any fiat at the moment and this doesn’t even have to do with ROI.


I am ambitious about the growth or potential of bitcoin but a sat to a dollar (I mean current value though because dollar go devalue in future who knows) seems too ambitious and not something I am seeing in a near future. Because for this to happen it means we have a bitcoin at $100 million.

Every fiat currency will continue to depreciate, Bitcoin to raise against them and the US dollar is not an exception.

Soon it will be crystal clear that someday 1sat = $1 and even exceeds this while The discussion about why individuals should invest in bitcoin would become why countries need to invest in Bitcoin.

Interesting, the way you molded the information and related it to Bitcoin makes it so obvious that the Bitcoin still has a lot of growth ahead just because of how much inflation the citizens will face in the coming year due to this printing of dollars. And to save yourself from Inflation, you simply by Bitcoin.

Total Crypto Market Cap is $2.64 Trillion which is 264 days of Printing for US Govt.

If you ever doubted why you should buy Bitcoin, here is a scary image for you:


This is what a no-cap currency looks like. Printed non-stop and out of control. Things are getting worse with US economy even if it doesn't look like it on paper. US government that has long ran out of money to spend while continues having rising costs is now going nuts with the printers. 

Every 100 days the US national debt is increased by over a trillion dollar! That is about $69 million every time we find a new Bitcoin Block (ie. 10 minutes on average) and "print" 6.25BTC which is worth only about $400k.

I'll leave it to you to calculate the intrinsic value of Bitcoin when measured in US dollar.... it definitely is not $67k or even $100k!

Here is something you could read: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/the-us-national-debt-is-rising-by-1-trillion-about-every-100-days.html


P.S. This also highlights the importance of dedollarisation for the rest of the world, by the way.