Everyone is celebrating about the fourth halving but what is this?

Abiky

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Quote from: Findingnemo on April 24, 2024, 01:24:39 AM

My portfolio value is irrelevant here, if that was such a compulsion then why not an altcoin?

If you want to spend $100 on something and you have 10K in your wallet doesn't mean we should pay $26 for transferring $100 or at least in my opinion, I wouldn't do that mistake because we have alternatives to do it for cents.

Well, some people prefer the security and reliability of Bitcoin for payments. Even if that comes at a cost of higher fees and slower confirmation times. Altcoins are faster and cheaper to use, but are often centralized and unreliable. Bitcoin's Lightning Network promises to fix this. But so far, it has failed to attract the masses. I think this has to do with a lack of user experience and flawed/buggy design.

At least, Bitcoin works well as a store of value. With "Wall Street" getting in the game, don't expect this to change anytime soon. Hopefully, fees will be much lower by the next block reward halving.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: oktana on April 24, 2024, 04:30:48 PM

I understand and agree with what you’ve said, indeed, Bitcoin wasn’t created to compete with the current system in regard to being cheaper with transaction fees.

alot of people think because it's "digital" it was designed to be "cheaper". nonsense. in this case. with crypto.

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However, how much it costs is not irrelevant to everyone.

of course not. but being able to send money cheaply or even cost effectively there's no guarantees for that in the bitcoin protocol and there never will be. and its sad that people have to try and "time" when they submit their payment so they can get a cheaper fee. it's like being reduced to a beggar.

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For some, it actually matters for how much they are transacting, or would you rather make a transaction and pay a transaction fee equivalent to the actual value transacted? Depending on the amount being transacted, the transaction cost may be a cause for concern.

ask the designers of bitcoin why they set it up that way then. it wasn't me. Angry

instead you could have unlimited block space and charge everyone a flat $1 fee which the conversion to bitcoin would be handled by some type of oracle. is that what you want?

oktana

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on April 22, 2024, 06:18:41 PM

Quote from: oktana on April 22, 2024, 04:47:50 PM

A relieving explanation because it will be really saddening if this has a lot more to it. I have come to see that Indeed one of the biggest things than can stop Bitcoin adoption is its own transaction fee. Imagine if this was permanent, a whole bunch of enthusiasts will stop using Bitcoin because they had no choice.

i don't think we expect transaction fees to just go back down to pre-halving levels. if that happened then miners would be getting paid 50% less. but bitcoin isn't about low fees. thats not why it exists. people seem to get that wrong thinking it exists to help them send money cheaply. unfortunately that's not how it was designed for necessarily. so you have to pay whatever to "support decentralization". that's why it really exists. how much it costs is kind of irrelevant theoretically. get used to that notion as it will be a recurring theme in the years to come most likely.

I understand and agree with what you’ve said, indeed, Bitcoin wasn’t created to compete with the current system in regard to being cheaper with transaction fees. However, how much it costs is not irrelevant to everyone. For some, it actually matters for how much they are transacting, or would you rather make a transaction and pay a transaction fee equivalent to the actual value transacted? Depending on the amount being transacted, the transaction cost may be a cause for concern.

Russlenat

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Quote from: GbitG on April 21, 2024, 02:01:24 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on April 20, 2024, 11:34:51 PM

It is now down to $25, thank goodness, so it should continue to fall. I hope we don't get our asses handed to us by the runes during this cycle and that what has happened now is exceptional, otherwise it's not that we won't be able to pay for coffees, it's that we basically won't be able to pay for anything with bitcoin. If to pay $1,000 in bitcoin you have to pay 10% in fees you will pay in fiat or with some altcoin.

Yep mate ! that's the biggest reason why Bitcoin is not yet ready to be used as a regular payment method we use cards and stuff when we go shopping or eat in a restaurant because as you said, you can't afford to pay 10% of what you have spent on the transaction you are going to make, no one would want to experience something like that which is why they would rather use another mean of making their payments than using Bitcoin for it.

If it continues to be this way, our dream of seeing Bitcoin becoming widely accepted worldwide as a payment method will stay a dream forever because it won't work, people would rather use altcoins with cheap transactions fees and faster transaction processing times to make the payments instead of using Bitcoin.

Fees has dropped down into $5 as of this moment so I guess we will start to see people buying and selling bitcoin with regular fees soon. Patience is the best virtue every time this happens, and for those who are impatient because this brings a lot of hassle for them, then they will eventually learn from this that fees won’t stay high forever. Of course, this will happen again and again but at least we won’t be in panic anymore but just learn to be patient and calm the next time it’ll happen.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: justdimin on April 23, 2024, 04:45:25 AM

If you don't have enough capital to pay the fees, you have no other option but to wait. That's why I always recommend that you invest whatever extra money you have on top of trading so that you're never forced to pay high fees or withdraw money for making transactions at such times.

My portfolio value is irrelevant here, if that was such a compulsion then why not an altcoin?

If you want to spend $100 on something and you have 10K in your wallet doesn't mean we should pay $26 for transferring $100 or at least in my opinion, I wouldn't do that mistake because we have alternatives to do it for cents.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: pooya87 on April 23, 2024, 05:53:20 AM

It is not an idea anybody had, it is just FUD. Every time there is a Halving, there are people who spread this FUD about "miners going away and bitcoin dying" but it never happens. The nature of mining is in a way that it keeps going and when it is accompanied by price rising, the miners' profit grows too but in the long run.
Don't forget that price wasn't always $65k-$70k. It's not so long ago when it was less than half this ($30k-$35k) and miners were making a lot of profit then. And with 3.125BTC reward at $65k we are at the same place as back then!

uh, what happens if bitcoin price ever goes back down into the $40k or even $30k range. would you then admit that it is a failure? because then miners would be in trouble.

Quote from: Assface16678 on April 23, 2024, 06:06:25 PM

Well, of course, we hope that it will get low over time, but still, we're not sure when it will happen. I think this high transaction fee will be in there for quite some time.

miners hope it will be there forever!

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If we can endure it, then it's better not to engage in any transactions for now as it is not worth it, especially for small transactions.

you'll never hear someone saying that who holds fiat. it costs nothing to spend their money. so maybe thats a good reason to use fiat. and maybe keep bitcoin as something that doesn't need to be spent but just held for price appreciation purposes. clearly bitcoin is not so user friendly when it has high transaction fees. everyone loves bitcoin when the transaction fees are low but when they get high, you start to hear them grumbling. Shocked

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on April 23, 2024, 09:28:33 AM

Still way too high for a small transaction. This is what it was when I checked on it and still not worth it. I even pay almost $20 for my $70 cashout and that really hurts a lot but yeah no choice. Do you guys think it will stay this way or it will soon go down?

Well, of course, we hope that it will get low over time, but still, we're not sure when it will happen. I think this high transaction fee will be in there for quite some time. If we can endure it, then it's better not to engage in any transactions for now as it is not worth it, especially for small transactions. You will be at a disadvantage if you still make those transactions. It's a waste to pay such a huge amount just for transaction fees, and I will not let that happen. I'd rather not make any move as long as the transaction fee is in double digits. For now, I will become quiet and wait for the fees to get low. But notice that there are still transactions being made with a very huge transaction fee and a small amount of transfer, which is why I was wondering if they were okay with that or if they just had the capability to afford those kinds of fees.

Abiky

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Quote from: pooya87 on April 19, 2024, 10:41:53 PM

It is either what @nullama said (people trying to get into the halving block) or this is "fee market manipulation" considering the timing and how the attack took place. There was an "artificial" injection of a rather large number of transactions (the first suspect is the Ordinals Attackers) into the mempool which has only manipulated the fee market and significantly increased the fee rate by creating this fake competition.

Luckily the attack is becoming very expensive so it can not continue for long but the attack itself will not stop as long as the exploit in the protocol exists and the fake market where they sell fake tokens under the codename Ordinals exists. That is creating an incentive to spam attack bitcoin.

Of course it won't continue. Otherwise, people will stop using Bitcoin for good. That's why the fee mechanism was invented. To help protect the Blockchain against spam attacks. I'd imagine chains with bigger block sizes (BCH and BSV) getting abused because of their higher transaction capacity. Even Solana's ultra-low fees paves the way for transaction spamming. Eventually, the attacker is going to run out of money as fees continue to rise like there's no tomorrow. When fees decline, it will be the perfect time to send money across the BTC blockchain. Or you can take the opportunity to open/close a channel on the LN at a lower cost.

I'm not surprised about fees surging towards the "triple digits", since that's usually the norm with every halving event. The past halving caused fees to rise all the way to the moon (although not as high as they are right now). I'd hope Ordinals moves away to a sidechain just to leave the main BTC blockchain for financial-only applications (sending/receiving money). Maybe Bitcoin Core devs will come up with a solution soon? Cheesy

0t3p0t

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Still way too high for a small transaction. This is what it was when I checked on it and still not worth it. I even pay almost $20 for my $70 cashout and that really hurts a lot but yeah no choice. Do you guys think it will stay this way or it will soon go down?

kryptqnick

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It's truly painful to see how much the fees rise sometimes. I agree that it's a major issue, that it's a challenge. My only solace is that I don't think the problem is getting worse or that there won't be any low fees in the future. It's not over $100 any more, but it's still over $25 for any kind of priority, according to mempool.space. For now, we can just try to wait it out and/or use the bits we have on some centralized platforms. It's great if ultimately we see some sort of patch (soft fork) that can improve the situation.

pooya87

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Quote from: GigaBit on April 21, 2024, 02:17:13 PM

Before the halving we had this idea where block rewards would decrease and miners would get less rewards.

It is not an idea anybody had, it is just FUD. Every time there is a Halving, there are people who spread this FUD about "miners going away and bitcoin dying" but it never happens. The nature of mining is in a way that it keeps going and when it is accompanied by price rising, the miners' profit grows too but in the long run.
Don't forget that price wasn't always $65k-$70k. It's not so long ago when it was less than half this ($30k-$35k) and miners were making a lot of profit then. And with 3.125BTC reward at $65k we are at the same place as back then!

callmyname

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Quote from: nullama on April 19, 2024, 08:30:26 PM

There is a ton of excitement to try to be in the halvening block, so many people put their transactions with a lot of fees to try to be there.

The ones that lost the chance will be queued for the next one, which might explain the large fees for that block.

You can see the differences in sat/vB between these blocks:

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/20/j47QG.png

In this case, the "golden" block was mined by ViaBTC, congrats to them!.

No, if you do like this guy said https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63973918 .

After fiter by OP_RETURN , more than 80% transaction is OP_RETURN. Send and recive address are same. They are spam transactions.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: Out of mind on April 21, 2024, 11:49:56 PM

During the halving, people may have made larger transactions that caused the free to be higher, although people with higher fees did not wait to complete their transactions. People were more aware when Bitcoin halved, and although they were more interested in trading in Bitcoin, many people were discouraged from trading because of the high gas fees. However, at the time of the halving, even though gas fees had increased significantly, many people did not trade and instead waited. Although Bitcoin transaction fees have come down a lot now, if we can wait a little longer it will definitely come down even more. Despite the high fees, many people traded in Bitcoin and continued their work, although many people could not trade because of the high fees, but if we wait a little longer, maybe the transaction fees will drop further this week.

Because they want to have their inscriptions on that particular block, even willing to pay as high as $36,000. But despite that, this is how bitcoin is design, to have halving every 4 years and I guess that's enough for everyone to celebrate and witnessed it as other might have not seen in run-time. There are a lot of countdowns as well, so we can say that it is again another successful halving. And despite the insane fees 2-3 days after, and because of this Runes, maybe the fees will continue to go up. Nevertheless, just like before when the tx fees goes up, just a matter of time before it came back down again to at least manageable, 10 sats/vB.

EarnOnVictor

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Lol...I was shocked like the majority of the people here when I saw this in the wake of the halving, it is one of the reasons I've always said that the Bitcoin system is not well-planned. Leaving the good system in the hands of all to dominate it and do it as they like is lame in my opinion as people can do and undo since the heart of an average person is wickedly wicked. Miners have found ways to bypass the planned fee arrangement with the block rewards since there is no one to check their excesses and this could be worse over time as they've already monopolised the system's fee for sole business, which is an offence in a sane economy.

All I regret now is that Satoshi is no longer in charge, I am sure he should have found a lasting solution to this instead for those who were not there when he was putting his/their brains together now reaping it big and ripping people off of their money in the name of Bitcoin.

justdimin

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Quote from: Findingnemo on April 21, 2024, 12:20:59 AM

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on April 20, 2024, 08:19:12 PM

The fee will remains high for some days as Rune protocol NFT trend has been started with BTC halving where NFT minter paying high fee than normal to mint nft quickly. This is not good for people who just use btc for normal transaction. Now we have to pay 80$ per transaction which will produce some question about btc advantages. I hope everything will be normal in week as yesterday the Gas fee was above 600 but now come down to 200 but if any big support comes out for Runes than the situation will become difficult and we might see high fee for long time

The fees are quite volatile and it's swinging in the range of 300sat - 600 sat/vb since yesterday. I think the payments via BTC has to be stopped until things become normal or pay whatever fee, I will choose the former anyday.

I wonder who are these people because they are ready to get the piece of useless things at whatever cost, they have some kind of money growing plants to waste money on these things?

I don't think there is anyone who spends money knowingly or casually. There are many people for whom doing transactions is both a compulsion and a necessity.
People who have earned money through hard work think a hundred times before spending it anywhere. A need is something that can compel you to pay any price

If you don't have enough capital to pay the fees, you have no other option but to wait. That's why I always recommend that you invest whatever extra money you have on top of trading so that you're never forced to pay high fees or withdraw money for making transactions at such times.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: oktana on April 22, 2024, 04:47:50 PM

A relieving explanation because it will be really saddening if this has a lot more to it. I have come to see that Indeed one of the biggest things than can stop Bitcoin adoption is its own transaction fee. Imagine if this was permanent, a whole bunch of enthusiasts will stop using Bitcoin because they had no choice.

i don't think we expect transaction fees to just go back down to pre-halving levels. if that happened then miners would be getting paid 50% less. but bitcoin isn't about low fees. thats not why it exists. people seem to get that wrong thinking it exists to help them send money cheaply. unfortunately that's not how it was designed for necessarily. so you have to pay whatever to "support decentralization". that's why it really exists. how much it costs is kind of irrelevant theoretically. get used to that notion as it will be a recurring theme in the years to come most likely.

oktana

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Quote from: nullama on April 19, 2024, 08:30:26 PM

There is a ton of excitement to try to be in the halvening block, so many people put their transactions with a lot of fees to try to be there.

The ones that lost the chance will be queued for the next one, which might explain the large fees for that block.

You can see the differences in sat/vB between these blocks:

[img]

In this case, the "golden" block was mined by ViaBTC, congrats to them!.

A relieving explanation because it will be really saddening if this has a lot more to it. I have come to see that Indeed one of the biggest things than can stop Bitcoin adoption is its own transaction fee. Imagine if this was permanent, a whole bunch of enthusiasts will stop using Bitcoin because they had no choice.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: Oshosondy on April 19, 2024, 07:39:40 PM

The fee has gone up too much. Is this how blocks mined immediately after halving would be?
-cut-Despite the reduction in block reward, block mined are more with transaction fee. The total reward for block 840000 is 40.75 BTC.

OMG that's shockingly awesome haha, well, I guess miners don't have to leave the network now as before writing here, I just said in another post that some miners might leave the network due to the high cost of electricity and low block reward and high computations power need, a single miner have to struggle to win the block reward as competition is so high. But I guess I was wrong. As fee only made that much money I mean that's mad.

How people are paying hundreds of dollars for just one tx, why they are not waiting for the price to cool down a bit, although I just remembered what if the price remained the same and I have to withdraw my funds from web3 wallet to exchange in order to sell, then I have to pay the fee as i left with no other option. Maybe that's why people are willing to pay 100$ fee because they might be making more money from the BTC they have that they don't care about $100. Well, I hope this will end soo and the fee will be back to its normal place.

Out of mind

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During the halving, people may have made larger transactions that caused the free to be higher, although people with higher fees did not wait to complete their transactions. People were more aware when Bitcoin halved, and although they were more interested in trading in Bitcoin, many people were discouraged from trading because of the high gas fees. However, at the time of the halving, even though gas fees had increased significantly, many people did not trade and instead waited. Although Bitcoin transaction fees have come down a lot now, if we can wait a little longer it will definitely come down even more. Despite the high fees, many people traded in Bitcoin and continued their work, although many people could not trade because of the high fees, but if we wait a little longer, maybe the transaction fees will drop further this week.

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: alastantiger on April 21, 2024, 11:48:37 AM

Quote from: 3kpk3 on April 20, 2024, 12:20:45 AM

Ordinals messed up the network for a while and runes are messing it up too now. Miners would be really happy while the average crypto investor would be pissed and direct their anger at the halving event.

I was in a conference about a year ago when the speaker talking about ordinals mentioned that there are 3 "Bitcoins". They are the token, the Network, and the Meme (or the public perception). According to the speaker, he said that ordinals wouldn’t harm the first two, but would definitely harm the public perception of Bitcoin, and that this would become an attack vector we as Bitcoiners needed to prepare for. And what is happening is now is exactly what the speaker predicted. It is time we know who the real bitcoiners are and not those who have been latching on to take advantage of the network.

We already experienced this, when these Ordinals started to make some noise, we experienced high traffic in the Bitcoin network and that caused very high transaction fees.
Especially right now, hype of Bitcoin block halving plus this new protocol built on top of Bitcoin called RUNES, this for sure will add some high traffic to the Bitcoin network but let's monitor it first.

Topic: Everyone is celebrating about the fourth halving but what is this? (Read 571 times)