Topic: Exchanges are now potentially banning btc sent to a mixing/conjoin services - page 2. (Read 460 times)
January 30, 2020, 10:58:13 AM
There's always been the capacity to mark coins with a tag that others can use to identify those coins down the road. They are refereed to as coloured coins - I would have preferred them to be called by another name, but I'm sure alt coins hadn't been dreamed up at that time. I haven't heard many people talk about coloured coins for a while now.
January 30, 2020, 10:55:33 AM
Behavior like this is yet another reason I am so glad I don't use any centralized exchange. The very fact that users have even received an email like this means the exchange is performing blockchain analysis on your coins both before they reach the exchange and after they leave it, which should be enough on its own to turn any sane person off, even without their draconian rules regarding where you can and cannot send your coins to. Not content with invading your privacy, collecting all your personal details and KYC documents, selling your info to third parties, and taking control of your coins, the exchanges even want to dictate what you are allowed to do with your own money.
These exchanges are starting to behave more and more like fiat banks. They are starting to become antithetical to bitcoin's very purpose.
Trade decentralized.
These exchanges are starting to behave more and more like fiat banks. They are starting to become antithetical to bitcoin's very purpose.
Trade decentralized.
January 30, 2020, 08:10:13 AM
Any company placing unnecessary barriers in their client's paths are jeopardising their business model. It's as simple as that. As others have said, leverage your cumulative power as consumers, vote with your pockets and avoid using those services en masse. Name and shame. Tell other people to avoid using them. Don't simply bend over and take it. Your privacy is worth fighting for.
Privacy features are currently being developed at protocol level as well, so any exchanges engaging in this practice are likely going to face some pretty interesting quandaries once those are implemented.
Privacy features are currently being developed at protocol level as well, so any exchanges engaging in this practice are likely going to face some pretty interesting quandaries once those are implemented.
January 30, 2020, 07:59:10 AM
Okay, please enlighten me here...
Is this how the events happened?
1. From exchange to his private wallet
2. From private wallet, sent to a mixer
3. From mixer, to another private wallet
4. A few days later, he got an email that he violated the terms for sending his btc to a mixing service.
If that is the case, isn't that invasion of privacy already? It's like a bank telling you that you can't deposit your money to any institution that they don't like.
Is this how the events happened?
1. From exchange to his private wallet
2. From private wallet, sent to a mixer
3. From mixer, to another private wallet
4. A few days later, he got an email that he violated the terms for sending his btc to a mixing service.
If that is the case, isn't that invasion of privacy already? It's like a bank telling you that you can't deposit your money to any institution that they don't like.
I believe there is a much easier way to bypass those exchanges that are banning your mixed coins.
1 -mix your coins
2 - send them to your wallet
3- send to another address within your wallet again
4- do that 6-7 times until you think it is enough, always using 1 sat/byte fees and changing quantities
5 - your coins are clean again.
January 30, 2020, 07:55:32 AM
Okay, please enlighten me here...
Is this how the events happened?
1. From exchange to his private wallet
2. From private wallet, sent to a mixer
3. From mixer, to another private wallet
4. A few days later, he got an email that he violated the terms for sending his btc to a mixing service.
If that is the case, isn't that invasion of privacy already? It's like a bank telling you that you can't deposit your money to any institution that they don't like.
Is this how the events happened?
1. From exchange to his private wallet
2. From private wallet, sent to a mixer
3. From mixer, to another private wallet
4. A few days later, he got an email that he violated the terms for sending his btc to a mixing service.
If that is the case, isn't that invasion of privacy already? It's like a bank telling you that you can't deposit your money to any institution that they don't like.
January 30, 2020, 07:51:14 AM
If crypto exchanges include such "anti-mixer" rule in their Terms of service,we have no choice but to follow this rule.With all the regulations and KYC,the crypto exchanges don't want "dirty money" in their wallets,so it's normal for them to ban transactions coming from BTC mixing services,because someone,who uses a mixer service clearly has something to hide.There's no other reason to use a Bitcoin mixer.
Sure there is a choice: don't use those exchanges... Really, if you have a choice between two otherwise equal exchanges: an exchange that will ban you for mixing and an exchange that won't ban you: chose the latter...
There are many good reasons for mixing, coinjoining or switching to a more anonymous coin (like XMR). For example: there are a (very limited) number of people on this forum that have the ability to dox me, Theymos also keeps my ip records on file for a while. I don't want anybody to be able to tie my crypto funds to my physical person, since i don't want my daughter to be kidnapped and helt for crypto randsome.
BTW: this thread wasn't about an exchange not accepting funds that came from a mixer, but about an exchange that locked a user's account because that user coinjoined/mixed using an unspent output from an unspent output that was generated by an exchange...
January 30, 2020, 07:45:50 AM
If crypto exchanges include such "anti-mixer" rule in their Terms of service,we have no choice but to follow this rule.With all the regulations and KYC,the crypto exchanges don't want "dirty money" in their wallets,so it's normal for them to ban transactions coming from BTC mixing services,because someone,who uses a mixer service clearly has something to hide.There's no other reason to use a Bitcoin mixer.
January 30, 2020, 07:36:30 AM
The only thing we (as a community) can do is to raise awareness and AVOID exchanges that engage in this behaviour like the plague.
And also, probably coinjoin the crap out of everyone's coins till we reach the point that pretty much the majority of circulating coins already have been through a coinjoin, hence these exchange really wouldn't have a choice but to accept them.
Apparently this "Bull Bitcoin" exchange has Wasabi Coinjoin integrated in their backend which is remarkable if you ask me. Unfortunately though, it's a Canada-only exchange.
January 30, 2020, 07:27:04 AM
This sucks however the easy solution is to send the coins to your own wallet first then why not send them to the mixers?
Yes, the way now they spy on the bitcoin transections is basically killing the beauty of using crypto. There are too many chain analysis company and this industry is getting bigger.
Yes, the way now they spy on the bitcoin transections is basically killing the beauty of using crypto. There are too many chain analysis company and this industry is getting bigger.
Wasabi isn't a mixer... Wasabi is a wallet with an extra feature that allows you to participate in a coinjoin from the gui... It's up to you wether you do this, or just use wasabi because it's an open source, HD, native bech32 wallet with easy tor integration.
The only thing we (as a community) can do is to raise awareness and AVOID exchanges that engage in this behaviour like the plague. I get why they have to implement KYC procedures for anybody that wants to exchange CRYPTO <--> FIAT, but when you want to withdraw said
EDIT: you're right, OP posted 2 cases: one of a user mixing and one of a user coinjoining with wasabi wallet... I focussed on the latter
January 30, 2020, 07:23:55 AM
I remember the bittlecat tweet. Looking back at it, it was an amount smaller then half a bitcoin, so I am pretty sure the reason for the flag would have been automatic. I don't see Binance support approving transactions that small personally, it would make sense if it was higher then 20 BTC, or something. I am curious to know how they found out the wallet from just a single address? Via twitter responses: "Wasabi uses a static fee address which would have most likely been the immediate next transaction that the new bc1 address would have been immediately associated with.", it seems like a combination of static fees + previous withdrawals to Wasabi.
Back on topic, it seems that the Wasabi fees have been flagged and is causing an issue for people. However, this response is a bit scary
.
https://twitter.com/RonaldMcHodled/status/1222181343922049025
So it looks like the exchange did post-chain anaylsis, and was able to detect that the user was doing a mixer transaction, even though the first address wasn't even to a mixer? There are no rules against this, and it's pretty shocking that this could have happened - the bittlecat instance is understandable, but this is taking things onto a next level.
Back on topic, it seems that the Wasabi fees have been flagged and is causing an issue for people. However, this response is a bit scary
.
https://twitter.com/RonaldMcHodled/status/1222181343922049025
So it looks like the exchange did post-chain anaylsis, and was able to detect that the user was doing a mixer transaction, even though the first address wasn't even to a mixer? There are no rules against this, and it's pretty shocking that this could have happened - the bittlecat instance is understandable, but this is taking things onto a next level.
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January 30, 2020, 07:16:34 AM
This sucks however the easy solution is to send the coins to your own wallet first then why not send them to the mixers?
Yes, the way now they spy on the bitcoin transections is basically killing the beauty of using crypto. There are too many chain analysis company and this industry is getting bigger.
Yes, the way now they spy on the bitcoin transections is basically killing the beauty of using crypto. There are too many chain analysis company and this industry is getting bigger.
January 30, 2020, 07:07:29 AM
Here is an another examples of how crypto exchanges are not going to act if they suspect you of using a bitcoin mixing services.
https://twitter.com/RonaldMcHodled/status/1222172084610027523
Remember back in mid December, someone also reported that Binance freezes his account because he sent it to Wasabi wallet.
https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552
https://twitter.com/RonaldMcHodled/status/1222172084610027523
Remember back in mid December, someone also reported that Binance freezes his account because he sent it to Wasabi wallet.
https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552
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