Exchanges not accepting mixed BTC, so is BTC no longer fungible? - page 3.

CaVO32

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 09, 2020, 04:04:44 PM

I had some run ins with one major exchange about this, because they had issues with coins that was mixed just before it was send to me and then I deposited those coins into the exchange. I told them that I did not mix the coins and that Bitcoin as a currency would not work if they applied these rules and regulations on mixed coins.

You cannot help it if someone mixed coins before they send it to you... so how can they penalize you for that? It is something different if you mix the coins before you deposit it onto your account with a regulated exchange.

I think it will be unfair to the user that just received btc from someone who did mixed his coins. And also, mixed coins are not only because someone is hiding illegal activity, there are other reasons why he opted not to trace the btc from somewhere else. Like for example in gambling, there are exchanges which do not accept if it is from gambling sites even though it is totally legal to some countries. So to avoid flagging their account, they just use mixer services to avoid potential loss of their funds. I believe exchanges should weigh things before they can implement such tight rule over allegedly mixed coins.

Oilacris

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Quote from: Sanugarid on June 09, 2020, 04:46:07 PM

So I guess the mixers would be useless now? or Exchanges who has this policy would be a lesser option for anyone who is using mixers to wash their bitcoins?

The move was quite good, since there are lots of stolen bitcoin that is being mixed/wash so it won't be tracked from the blockchain and they can continue using the same old address of them.

But I got to ask one thing, why would the exchanges do this? I know they are not all has this kind of policy.

Regulation!

This is one of the reason on why they do need to be keen towards into those bitcoin that are tainted and since these platforms are
heavily centralized then they would really abide with the rules towards money laundering etc. ..

I can say that theres really an advantage for this one but theres also some disadvantages. I dont know if they can able to trace
if a certain coin would be mixed out several times and been passed on several wallets + sending on other platforms
then receiving back into your wallet then you do make a deposit.

coupable

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In my opinion, it's a stupid move. Just like governments forbid the use of bitcoin without noticing that bitcoin is not controlled by any authority and can't forbid users to connect with blockchain nodes.
Why? Because users may have a legit money but received from someone who received it from a mixer. With chainanalysis, will they be accused of money lundering? I can't understand why exchanges do this. Are they forced? If yes, based on what? Are mixers forbidden to be used?
I am really interested to understand this !

Sanugarid

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So I guess the mixers would be useless now? or Exchanges who has this policy would be a lesser option for anyone who is using mixers to wash their bitcoins?

The move was quite good, since there are lots of stolen bitcoin that is being mixed/wash so it won't be tracked from the blockchain and they can continue using the same old address of them.

But I got to ask one thing, why would the exchanges do this? I know they are not all has this kind of policy.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: avikz on June 09, 2020, 03:48:00 PM

I don't think exchanges are doing it willingly! Most probably it's the government who is playing from background and forcing the exchanges to have such things implemented to reduce money laundering. It's no secret that mixing services are being used as a great tool for money laundering.

I do think so, coz there is no way a business would turn their back to their possible profit, an example, let's say that the money from a person is from money laundering, government cannot blame them for depositing it through their platform right? So obviously this is a form of rule manipulation from one's government not the exchanges themselves. And for them, it is a continue operating or get reprimanded situation which they are left with no choice. The logic is simple behind this, there's no way that these exchange would implement such fool rule like this.

Quote from: avikz on June 09, 2020, 03:48:00 PM

So I think the exchanges are just trying to stay clean. Because all exchanges are centralized business entities unlike bitcoin itself and it is important for them to save their business from government's wrath.

Exactly my point. There is no point for not taking a washed bitcoin, aside it is one of the advantage of bitcoin when it comes to traceability, it is hard to tracked once mixed.

Kakmakr

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I had some run ins with one major exchange about this, because they had issues with coins that was mixed just before it was send to me and then I deposited those coins into the exchange. I told them that I did not mix the coins and that Bitcoin as a currency would not work if they applied these rules and regulations on mixed coins.

You cannot help it if someone mixed coins before they send it to you... so how can they penalize you for that? It is something different if you mix the coins before you deposit it onto your account with a regulated exchange.

avikz

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I don't think exchanges are doing it willingly! Most probably it's the government who is playing from background and forcing the exchanges to have such things implemented to reduce money laundering. It's no secret that mixing services are being used as a great tool for money laundering. Few days back I was reading a similar article in Medium on how mixer services are being used as a tool for laundering money and then goes to exchanges for liquidity and distribution. You can also read it below,

https://medium.com/tozex/how-do-criminals-launder-money-through-blockchain-dc66916b5d81

So I think the exchanges are just trying to stay clean. Because all exchanges are centralized business entities unlike bitcoin itself and it is important for them to save their business from government's wrath.

Yes, it is disturbing the fungibility of bitcoin as virgin and clean bitcoin has more acceptability than the mixed ones. But I think that's the way forward. If stolen bitcoin remains very easy to exchange for real money, the hacking incidents, frauds and thefts will not slow down. While privacy is important but it is also important not to support illegal things happening around us every single day!

konfuzius5278

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Many exchange behave like their center of the wourld. But currently community has no other chance as use them.

I also hate these big exchanges using BTC legacy adresses for deposit messing the chain up....

OROBTC

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...

I have been reading that many exchanges are using Chainalysis (etc.) to look at transactions, and refusing to exchange BTC (or even accept them). I also know that BitPay is using such blockchain analysis to NOT accept BTC that looked like they were mixed or otherwise have a "dubious" history.

This looks like it is going to be an issue, probably getting to be a bigger issue into the future.

If we define "fungible" as satoshis = satoshis, then it looks like that some satoshis are more equal than others. Does this mean that Bitcoin is no longer fungible?

This looks like a problem for BTC and possibly all of crypto, in that crypto NOW has / will have to be "proven" clean, else hard to exchange for fiat, other crypto, or even for large purchases?

Please discuss.

Topic: Exchanges not accepting mixed BTC, so is BTC no longer fungible? - page 3. (Read 933 times)