Exchanging BTC with this community will serve the purpose of mixing?

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on March 31, 2023, 04:55:14 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on March 30, 2023, 04:10:04 PM

.. the exchange retains knowledge of the destination and your identity, as KYC information has already been submitted. And for community mixing you don't need KYC or something similar. Therefore, privacy cannot be fully ensured without utilizing Bitcoin mixers.

Let me disagree with you on this one, even mixers don't fully guarantee your privacy, so what do we call what happened with Chipmixer then? They seized 7 terabytes of data!!! What is this seized data? And why does Chipmixer keep them??

Even if they don't ask for KYC, the mixers still have the deposit and withdrawal address and the IP, how do you guarantee that they will permanently erase it after the process is over?

What happened to Chipmixers caught us all by surprise why do they retain those data, they should be erased by other mixers users and the mixing platform should learn from Chipmixer of deleting these data and if possible show proof that they are not retaining those data, you are right on questioning other Mixers they could be doing what Chipmixers has been doing and that is retaining their customers' data when their client believes that it is being deleted.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on March 30, 2023, 04:10:04 PM

.. the exchange retains knowledge of the destination and your identity, as KYC information has already been submitted. And for community mixing you don't need KYC or something similar. Therefore, privacy cannot be fully ensured without utilizing Bitcoin mixers.

Let me disagree with you on this one, even mixers don't fully guarantee your privacy, so what do we call what happened with Chipmixer then? They seized 7 terabytes of data!!! What is this seized data? And why does Chipmixer keep them??

Even if they don't ask for KYC, the mixers still have the deposit and withdrawal address and the IP, how do you guarantee that they will permanently erase it after the process is over?

The Cryptovator

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If your aim is to sever the connection from your known address, then it will be effective. However, if you seek complete privacy protection, it is unlikely to be achieved through this method. A community mixing service like a centralized exchange. When depositing and withdrawing from a centralized exchange, the transaction history is already severed. However, the exchange retains knowledge of the destination and your identity, as KYC information has already been submitted. And for community mixing you don't need KYC or something similar. Therefore, privacy cannot be fully ensured without utilizing Bitcoin mixers.

WillyAp

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Quote from: joniboini on March 30, 2023, 06:43:32 AM

Quote from: WillyAp on March 29, 2023, 06:40:30 AM

Well I wonder how the Mixers give a guarantee if you apply the same pressure like the mentioned one.

Do you mean if someone asked the mixer where somebody's deposit goes? I think mixer and exchange have different priorities.

I mean the CIA asking nicely the Mixer's Owner to tell a little about the who and how to recognice the so called bad guys.

coin-investor

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

I am not sure up to what extend you are looking for anonymity with respect to your bitcoins; but I guess when you use BTCs from other addresses (different from usual addys) which somehow protect your privacy at least 50% on what a professional mixing services do (I am sorry; I am not expertise in taint analysis or anything related to mixing/being anonymous on BTC tx).

I don't think so if it's possible then there will be no need for a mixing service, 50% is not good and can still be traceable we have tools to track Bitcoin address connection, and it will be just a waste of time, effort, and transaction fees, with the majority of exchanges on centralize set up it can be trace and its original owners through KYC.

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If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people start providing services for mixing like lending.

That sounds like a good idea but it's not if you want to be 100% private it should be coming from mixing services, there is no other way.

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Quote from: Husires on March 30, 2023, 07:59:22 AM

OR using privacy coins like Monero.

I second. Since the seizing won't stop and they're likely going to go through with other mixing services in the near future and will take them down, I guess this is the safest choice if you want to keep yourself anonymous from any transactions that you do and that's just to use privacy coins. But just as these mixing services, there have been reports that local exchanges have been instructed to delist privacy coins for the same concerns that they've got against the mixing services. It's even scarier if soon the law enforcement themselves will create a trap in the form of a mixing service and will track down users that have trusted it.

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In general, for an ordinary user who does not want to hide anything, moving your currencies between your addresses several times is enough to avoid any problems for centralized platforms because they will not apply an in-depth search for all accounts, but if a company or government decides to follow you, you will need more than that.
If you want to hide your coins from taxes or law enforcement, you must trust Mixer to break your track and delete your logs. OR using privacy coins like Monero.

joniboini

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Quote from: WillyAp on March 29, 2023, 06:40:30 AM

Well I wonder how the Mixers give a guarantee if you apply the same pressure like the mentioned one.

Do you mean if someone asked the mixer where somebody's deposit goes? I think mixer and exchange have different priorities. An exchange, most of the time, needs government approval if they want to continue their business, so they don't have the incentive to keep their user's privacy. Mixers on the other hand value privacy more, although most of the time verifying them is hard. At the very least, I can see them simply closing down and opening a new one if the owner believes he can do it.

Relying on one or two services is also not a good idea IMO. If privacy is your goal then just use a coin that was designed around that. Or, mine your own coins if you really want them. CMIIW.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

I am not sure up to what extend you are looking for anonymity with respect to your bitcoins; but I guess when you use BTCs from other addresses (different from usual addys) which somehow protect your privacy at least 50% on what a professional mixing services do (I am sorry; I am not expertise in taint analysis or anything related to mixing/being anonymous on BTC tx).

I like to hear your opinions on this.

If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people do start providing services for mixing like lending.

If you share the address with an individual then they can access the history of all the transactions so it won't be private at all so this isn't recommended for privacy reasons or breaking the chain in the blockchain network. I can see new mixers are on the way and some of them exists for a while now so it's really preferable than what you're suggesting.

WillyAp

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Quote from: Saisher on March 28, 2023, 03:53:46 PM

Quote from: WillyAp on March 27, 2023, 05:09:45 PM

Just swap those coins into a different crypto, swap it into another on the second station and keep doing it till you are happy?

To some extent they can still trace you, and they can always ask the exchanges for your information about where you trade your Bitcoin to altcoins, only a mixing service can offer you and guarantee your anonymity there are no free mixing services you can find but there are mixing service that offers low fees and one of them is Yomix.
This is why we have the mixing services if there's one free mixing service there's the possibility that it's a scam mixing, better use a paid one or feel sorry.

Well I wonder how the Mixers give a guarantee if you apply the same pressure like the mentioned one.
Imagine to find wallet 1 than 2 than 3 and so on and still have a clue if the innitial coin was swaped or not where it was sent to and so on,
With time you can get most info. But who will invest that much?

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people do start providing services for mixing like lending.

It depends on who you're hiding from. If you don't want your local barista to know you just bought a jet with Bitcoin, this may work. But the community-member you "exchanged" your Bitcoin with could still find out about your jet.

Darker45

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I don't understand exactly what design you have in mind, but I cannot see how the link is broken. How particularly is lending, for example, able to obfuscate the source of the funds? Will there be like a third party lending service to whom we will be sending our Bitcoin and then we will be receiving the same amount from the Bitcoin of other users who are also using the platform? Will there never be trust issues with the design you have in mind?

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Quote from: Saisher on March 28, 2023, 03:53:46 PM

only a mixing service can offer you and guarantee your anonymity

You can't guarantee on such, yeah that's what mixers are advertised. But look how chipmixer save and logged user chip's private keys which will be a risk to any of its users' privacy. It's like logging their transactions too, as importing private keys will be easy to track transactions made.

Saisher

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Quote from: WillyAp on March 27, 2023, 05:09:45 PM

Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

After there is no more free mixing services available, I am looking for simple yet free mixing methods.
If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people do start providing services for mixing like lending.

Just swap those coins into a different crypto, swap it into another on the second station and keep doing it till you are happy?

To some extent they can still trace you, and they can always ask the exchanges for your information about where you trade your Bitcoin to altcoins, only a mixing service can offer you and guarantee your anonymity there are no free mixing services you can find but there are mixing service that offers low fees and one of them is Yomix.
This is why we have the mixing services if there's one free mixing service there's the possibility that it's a scam mixing, better use a paid one or feel sorry.

noorman0

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

-snip-
If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people do start providing services for mixing like lending.

It should be a large community, have routine transactions that can be guaranteed and also have the same privacy practices among community members.
I don't know what the lending service expects from the mixing process, especially since the loan must have an agreement that is as transparent as possible.

Little Mouse

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Will work fine but you won't have the anonymity you would expect from ChbipMixer or any other services. It will be easy to track down you if the one you will receive BTC from, will know your address. If they use a public address attached to their bitcointalk identity, then it will be much easy to trace you if someone spends a few hours, I'm not mentioning the investigation from an on-chain analyst like Chainalysis or others.
I can't remember if I have seen any other mixer that provides free mixing services but you can use it with a 0.25% fee even with the recent one launched in bitcointalk- whirlwind.money.

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on March 27, 2023, 05:46:20 PM

Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

After there is no more free mixing services available, I am looking for simple yet free mixing methods.

Who told you all mixing services have ended?

I think he is talking about free mixing services, which Chipmixer offered under certain conditions. he did not say that all mixing services have ended.

conversion through some other currencies, then returning back to a new Bitcoin address is one of the cheap solutions, but it is certainly not free due to the possible price difference, as well as different fees for several transactions. in the end, even Chipmixer was not completely free, because it also had a tx fee.

PX-Z

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So you need free mixing service, if that's what you are after on chipmixer? Which is what you are referring on your post.
Well, i guess not yet, most mixing service that still exist is using the traditional wat of mixing unlike hat chipmixer do if im not wrong.

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

After there is no more free mixing services available, I am looking for simple yet free mixing methods.

Who told you all mixing services have ended?

Just because chipmixer was shutdown does not mean there aren't any other good mixers out there.

Quote

I am not sure up to what extend you are looking for anonymity with respect to your bitcoins; but I guess when you use BTCs from other addresses (different from usual addys) which somehow protect your privacy at least 50% on what a professional mixing services do (I am sorry; I am not expertise in taint analysis or anything related to mixing/being anonymous on BTC tx).

it's useless, lol. Coins can still easily get traced without breaking a sweat.

If you want complete privacy and anonymity without using mixing services, then i guess you should try to look into privacy related coins like Monero, Zcash, Dash etc

WillyAp

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Quote from: perfect999 on March 27, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

After there is no more free mixing services available, I am looking for simple yet free mixing methods.
If this kind of community-driven mixing will work, then I guess we can see people do start providing services for mixing like lending.

Just swap those coins into a different crypto, swap it into another on the second station and keep doing it till you are happy?

Topic: Exchanging BTC with this community will serve the purpose of mixing? (Read 257 times)