extinguishing Western union - page 3.

eerygarden

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Quote from: Amph on July 19, 2015, 04:19:09 AM

it will be possible to incorporate in on top of open bazar, therefore it will work as a decentralized market and exchange, the ultimate platform for anything related bitcoin

I think its a bit of a catch 22. You cant get low rate remittances unless you can go shopping with bitcoin. It seems it is some years away yet. Perhaps when inflation is down to 2%

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on July 18, 2015, 06:20:58 AM

that is the point i guess.

maybe BTC lacks adoption and proper options to remit money worldwide at the moment. BUT this has already changed and will change even more in the future.

in the future you will pay 0,xxx % and not 5-15 %
(+ instant transactions with BTC)

@LaudaM

people dont know about BTC, trust is not the problem.
+ we need more infrastructure.

Exactly. There are a lot of people who either do not know about it at all or fail to understand it/see the benefits that it provides. The infrastructure is coming along slowly with all these VC investments that we've had to date. Good job finding that image again, it clearly shows that Bitcoin isn't as tiny as some people think.
I'm guessing that in a few years (4+), the network will be ready to take over everything.

Amph

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Quote from: solex on July 18, 2015, 08:51:45 PM

Quote from: redhawk979 on July 18, 2015, 02:13:07 AM

Everytime I see a Western Union death thread, it fails to point out that WU has been experiencing record growth and profits over the past few years, so Bitcoin hasn't been making any sort of dent in it.

snip

Western Union share price for 5 years, massively underperforming the S&P 500 (red line).
Note that the drop at the end of oct 2013 coincides exactly with the first Bitcoin BTM at Vancouver which was a huge media event and preceded the $1150 run-up. WU claimed their share price was hit by "cost overhead from increased money transmission regulations" though it suffered in Oct 2012 too (more regulations then as well?)

not to mention that people are still making a comparison between bitcoin and big company that have a long history behind it, they were not born yesterday and skyrocketing overnight

this generation can't udnerstand bitcoin, we need to get rid of the old mentality to embrace bitcoin better

Quote from: moni3z on July 19, 2015, 01:00:19 AM

A totally decentralized remittance method, that abstracts away all the complexities of bitcoin would be ideal. I like localbitcoins but it's centralized so if they are down everything is down, plus fees are large for small traders in the developing world, should be a free market of exchange fees.

it will be possible to incorporate in on top of open bazar, therefore it will work as a decentralized market and exchange, the ultimate platform for anything related bitcoin

moni3z

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Western Union cancels transactions all the time for no reason except "business decision". My last 2 xfers to Africa to pay graduate students for work were cancelled. When I went to go pick them up the girl behind me had her WU that she sent to her parents in Peru cancelled too.

They should die and bitcoin should replace them. If I can't find somebody on localbitcoins I usually then turn to Worldremit, as they have dozens of local payout methods as I need MTN Mobile Money in Rwanda/Uganda often, and MPESA in Kenya. I don't think bitpay or coinbase will allow their services to be used for remittance though or else Worldremit could accept them unfortunately.

A totally decentralized remittance method, that abstracts away all the complexities of bitcoin would be ideal. I like localbitcoins but it's centralized so if they are down everything is down, plus fees are large for small traders in the developing world, should be a free market of exchange fees.

Q7

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It's interesting to see how this will turn up and how it will affect the future money transfer business. For instance, if you look at Rebit.ph, what they are offering is considered something similar to what WU is offering and without the extra fees. Question is how many people knows how to utilize it. The biggest barrier to mass adoption might be that the bitcoin community is still dominated by the groups of people having IT knowledge and we need to over this to bring the knowledge to all the common people.

bornil267645

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Bitcoins are much faster than any other fiat currency. When it comes to speed, the fiat currency system is nowhere near the promptness of Bitcoin. Whenever you need to exchange from one fiat currency to another or to make a transaction, the wait is sometimes unbearable. In the era of speed and precision, you can either get through the banks, their questions (not to mention their fees) and wait an eternity for their approval, or you can just use Bitcoin to transfer millions of dollars, for negligible fees, in a matter of seconds.

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Quote from: redhawk979 on July 18, 2015, 02:13:07 AM

Everytime I see a Western Union death thread, it fails to point out that WU has been experiencing record growth and profits over the past few years, so Bitcoin hasn't been making any sort of dent in it.

Western Union share price for 5 years, massively underperforming the S&P 500 (red line).
Note that the drop at the end of oct 2013 coincides exactly with the first Bitcoin BTM at Vancouver which was a huge media event and preceded the $1150 run-up. WU claimed their share price was hit by "cost overhead from increased money transmission regulations" though it suffered in Oct 2012 too (more regulations then as well?)

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: unamis76 on July 18, 2015, 06:24:35 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 03:31:10 AM

1.5% is decent no?

Not decent at all, especially when you think how many users they have, and how many "1,5%"'s they take...

stop saying its 1.5% as its not. as someone said its 3.9 plus 1.5 = 5.4%. plus fx spreads.

my own experience is that it cost me roughly $60-$70 to send $1000 to Argentina.

and I think you have a bad attitude toward business. who cares if they are making money. they are a business. that's what businesses do. if you don't like the fees, and there is something better, don't use them. that's the point.

galbros

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I would agree that money transmitting, especially internationally, is something that bitcoin is great at.

It would be easy for an association of money transmittal firms to use bitcoin to settle or facilitate transfers. Who know, maybe WU will do so itself!

I do worry that fees will increase as regulation increases, but right now, sending money internationally via bitcoin is virtually free.

Great chart Litecoinguy!

eerygarden

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Quote from: unamis76 on July 18, 2015, 06:24:35 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 03:31:10 AM

1.5% is decent no?

Not decent at all, especially when you think how many users they have, and how many "1,5%"'s they take...

Aye, but there is no one out there using bitcoin to do anything like 1.5% at present.

unamis76

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 03:31:10 AM

1.5% is decent no?

Not decent at all, especially when you think how many users they have, and how many "1,5%"'s they take...

LiteCoinGuy

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 05:38:45 AM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on July 18, 2015, 05:05:26 AM

where do you see 1,5% ? i see a 3,9% fee + they can cheat you with the exchange rate.

Hmmm I worked out the amount to receiver figure as a % of the exchange rate figure taken from xe.com.

7056.82 - 6951.13 = 105.69 / 7056.82 * 100 = 1.4977%

You are right though, there is a £3.90 charge and a poorer exchange rate.
So I think I understand now that the sender receives a 3.9% fee and the receiver suffers a 1.5% fee on top.

Looking at the localbitcoins options I don't think that it is currently competitive for someone looking to remit money to their homeland from a developed nation. I have never seen a bitcoin ATM, but from what I have seen online, they don't typically have very flattering buy/sell margins either.

So, if this is something that we are going to do..... what's the plan Andreas?

that is the point i guess.

maybe BTC lacks adoption and proper options to remit money worldwide at the moment. BUT this has already changed and will change even more in the future.

in the future you will pay 0,xxx % and not 5-15 %
(+ instant transactions with BTC)

@LaudaM

people dont know about BTC, trust is not the problem.
+ we need more infrastructure.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: Alley on July 17, 2015, 08:26:55 PM

People trust western union. Right now most people don't think bitcoin is safe.

I would argue that this claim is incorrect. The main problem is that people do not understand Bitcoin. If your sole wish is to send someone money then there is nothing problematic about Bitcoin.
Just register at some verified exchange and buy it, then withdraw to the address of your choice. You could even directly withdraw to the person that you wish to send the money.

The problem is that people either do not clearly see the benefits that Bitcoin offers or just do not understand it. Wasn't there a chart recently that showed that the 7d volume had surpassed WU's 7d volume at that point?

NewLiberty

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I like that the discussion here has shifted from "lets shut down their business" to "how can we do a better business than WU does".

Extinguishing WU isn't something that we will do, it's something that WU will do... by not taking advantage of what Bitcoin offers. At any moment that can change.

They have money service licenses everywhere they are needed, and points of presence globally. If they wake up, they could be one heck of a Bitcoin business.

Sure, WU has been gouging the great quantity of poor-but-loyal-to-remote-family hard working people everywhere for generations. The cash from such gouging can buy up a bunch of existing Bitcoin businesses to ramp up fast and gain some talent.

Full disclosure: I'm short WU stock (until they seem ready to pivot to Bitcoin).

gentlemand

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 05:38:45 AM

Hmmm I worked out the amount to receiver figure as a % of the exchange rate figure taken from xe.com.

7056.82 - 6951.13 = 105.69 / 7056.82 * 100 = 1.4977%

You are right though, there is a £3.90 charge and a poorer exchange rate.
So I think I understand now that the sender receives a 3.9% fee and the receiver suffers a 1.5% fee on top.

Looking at the localbitcoins options I don't think that it is currently competitive for someone looking to remit money to their homeland from a developed nation. I have never seen a bitcoin ATM, but from what I have seen online, they don't typically have very flattering buy/sell margins either.

So, if this is something that we are going to do..... what's the plan Andreas?

This is an interesting breakdown of remittance costs

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/ng-interactive/2014/aug/19/-sp-remittances-countries-highest-fees-interactive

I think it varies vastly between source and destination. Those WU costs you posted are probably cheaper and faster than a conventional bank transfer.

Weirdly, Iceland costs 10% to transfer £100 to and the Central African Republic costs 5%.

I used a have a local friend go broke who refused to have a bank account so I'd have to bail them out via WU when they starved. They lived 50 miles down the road and the cost was 5-10%.

NyeFe

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Quote from: LFC_Bitcoin on July 18, 2015, 05:20:20 AM

When bitcoin achieves widespread mainstream adoption Western Union is going to be one of the first big companies to suffer. Bitcoin will basically wipe them our & take most of their business. The fees are incomparable, Western Union are robbing people to send money abroad, it's disgusting. There is only one winner long term & it isn't Western Union.

You couldn't be more correct. As the adoption of Bitcoin grows, the need to convert btc to fiat, vice versa, would also increase at a local level, therefore, making it much more possible to locally source individuals willing to trade. This would reduce the need to use bank transfers, online exchanges, WU and the fees they impose.

gentlemand

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 18, 2015, 05:45:36 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 17, 2015, 05:53:16 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 17, 2015, 05:47:10 PM

He mentions that UK to the Philippines is a major remittance route and bitcoin ATMs are facilitating this today and hints at a 1% fee but I believe that bitcoin ATMs have higher margins than this. If this is happening, where is it happening and how can we speed it up?

The Philippines seems to be a hotbed of BTC activity compared to elsewhere. It's humming along.

https://www.goabra.com/ seems to be pushing the remittance angle. I've no idea how many people they've signed up and it's pretty interesting that there's virtually no mention of Bitcoin anywhere but I'll be keen to see how far they get.

I am looking more in to this. Thanks for sharing.

I don't know how operational it is. It might just be busy burning VC money but at some point they might deliver. Worth a watch at least.

eerygarden

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 17, 2015, 05:53:16 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 17, 2015, 05:47:10 PM

He mentions that UK to the Philippines is a major remittance route and bitcoin ATMs are facilitating this today and hints at a 1% fee but I believe that bitcoin ATMs have higher margins than this. If this is happening, where is it happening and how can we speed it up?

The Philippines seems to be a hotbed of BTC activity compared to elsewhere. It's humming along.

https://www.goabra.com/ seems to be pushing the remittance angle. I've no idea how many people they've signed up and it's pretty interesting that there's virtually no mention of Bitcoin anywhere but I'll be keen to see how far they get.

I am looking more in to this. Thanks for sharing.

eerygarden

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on July 18, 2015, 05:05:26 AM

where do you see 1,5% ? i see a 3,9% fee + they can cheat you with the exchange rate.

Hmmm I worked out the amount to receiver figure as a % of the exchange rate figure taken from xe.com.

7056.82 - 6951.13 = 105.69 / 7056.82 * 100 = 1.4977%

You are right though, there is a £3.90 charge and a poorer exchange rate.
So I think I understand now that the sender receives a 3.9% fee and the receiver suffers a 1.5% fee on top.

Looking at the localbitcoins options I don't think that it is currently competitive for someone looking to remit money to their homeland from a developed nation. I have never seen a bitcoin ATM, but from what I have seen online, they don't typically have very flattering buy/sell margins either.

So, if this is something that we are going to do..... what's the plan Andreas?

LFC_Bitcoin

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When bitcoin achieves widespread mainstream adoption Western Union is going to be one of the first big companies to suffer. Bitcoin will basically wipe them our & take most of their business. The fees are incomparable, Western Union are robbing people to send money abroad, it's disgusting. There is only one winner long term & it isn't Western Union.

Topic: extinguishing Western union - page 3. (Read 3274 times)