Pages:
Author

Topic: [FACTS] Altcoins can never replace FIAT ! (Read 2079 times)

hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
October 23, 2016, 01:23:49 PM
#37
I will start off with one of many reasons why (i have posted since 2013)

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  Cheesy

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.


This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Since day one when i got into this stuff i have warned users abut this.
I have warned them that something should have been done to account for this risk.
Not sure what you CAN do though.

There is many reasons why crypto-coins can not replace FIAT.
I will post another reason or two later Wink

Fact !! Saying fact before everything does not make it fact !
Never say never. They said we would never go to the moon and that the Titanic would never sink too....

Oh here is a fact though....

"The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless."

Doh !!!! Almost everything would't work. Are you trying to troll or something ? Money already is mostly digital. Please wake up !
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
October 23, 2016, 09:07:00 AM
#36
Bitcoin is still the main crypto for an alternative to fiat. The rest of the altcoins are simply pump and dump or just an idea for now. The real usage for crypto is still very very small.
We need to promote crypto to the mass first before talking about replacing fiat.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
October 23, 2016, 03:14:02 AM
#35
For me the actual fact is that bitcoin is already much busy in that job and for that bitcoin have to do a huge struggle and have to pass a longest period which all other altcoins cannot do as they are far weaker than bitcoin. Altcoins will first try to reach bitcoin and then they can think about other currency of the world.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 23, 2016, 01:36:32 AM
#34
I have seen the scenario posed with an EMP only where it hits part of a continent.
Such as say 75% of North America..
If that happened we know there would be aid coming from the other countries who STILL have power.
So we have a partial power disruption scenario (far more likely)
And we also have a full global power outage scenario which is highly unlikely.

 Cheesy, Natural EMP is hard to predict , US & Europe were hit last time.
Odds are much higher it is a attack from a foreign country that detonates nuclear warheads high in the atmosphere to generate the EMPs necessary to take out the US and part of Canada & Mexico.
Although the US does have defense systems designed to prevent that from happening.

I also am skeptical very much data would be lost.
The key issue said is that there would be a power surge and the grids would get over loaded and fail.
This likely would not fry every hard drive everywhere i'm *guessing*

I agree though we are not prepared for a big outage Crypto or not..
We are teetering on the edge as it is just barley keeping humans fed etc.
The second the system is disrupted all hell will break loose and BAD !
The survivors will probably be in the woods away from the crowds i think.

Anyway i think the reliance on the net + power makes Crypto coins an unsuitable *replacement* for FIAT money.
I just think it's insanity how so many people actually think one of these crypto-coins will substitute the FIAT dollar + coins.

So I think we can both agree, short term limited area electricity outages, either cash or crypto will work.
Long Term EMP with world wide damage, cash & crypto are useless and we start sharpening sticks and fighting over food.

A LongTerm Partial Outages, Cash would have an advantage initially in the electric dead zone only, however if even 1 copy of the blockchain survived in a foreign county (which is probable with a partial emp) , if you had printed a copy of your personal keys, you get to where there is power and use your personal key to activate your wallet and use it normally. (At which time, if you were rich in crypto , you would just move to the area where they have power, or exchange it for fiat or whatever they use in the electric dead zone, if you were going to stay in the EDZ.)

Smart idea is to have some Crypto, some gold & some silver, & enough fiat (if Business still take Fiat in 10 years) to use to get you out of the electric dead zone as Life will be hard there for years to come. Knowing how to Garden and Hunt and being used to outdoor camping, will be valuable, if staying in the electric dead zone.
But when you cross that border, it will be easier to hide a private crypto key than to hide the Fiat (that may be confiscated).
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/bolivia-police-arrest-us-man-15-million-gold-42831486
Quote
Bolivian police say they've detained a 76-year-old U.S. citizen with more than 121 pounds (55 kilograms) of gold.
Anti-narcotics chief Santiago Delgadillo says Robert Agnew Meyer also was found with a small amount of cocaine and several pounds (kilograms) of silver coins.
He puts the value of the gold alone at more than $1.5 million.
Delgadillo says the man is being investigated for possible smuggling, though he has not been charged.

 Cool

FYI:
I consider myself more of a member of the Q_Continuum than a ferengi.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Q_Continuum
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
October 23, 2016, 12:08:56 AM
#33
I have seen the scenario posed with an EMP only where it hits part of a continent.
Such as say 75% of North America..
If that happened we know there would be aid coming from the other countries who STILL have power.
So we have a partial power disruption scenario (far more likely)
And we also have a full global power outage scenario which is highly unlikely.

I also am skeptical very much data would be lost.
The key issue said is that there would be a power surge and the grids would get over loaded and fail.
This likely would not fry every hard drive everywhere i'm *guessing*

I agree though we are not prepared for a big outage Crypto or not..
We are teetering on the edge as it is just barley keeping humans fed etc.
The second the system is disrupted all hell will break loose and BAD !
The survivors will probably be in the woods away from the crowds i think.

Anyway i think the reliance on the net + power makes Crypto coins an unsuitable *replacement* for FIAT money.
I just think it's insanity how so many people actually think one of these crypto-coins will substitute the FIAT dollar + coins.

PS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinum

PPS:
You are all this --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi
And your Bible ? --> Ferengi rules of acquisition ..Google it Wink

PPS:
A CME is on it's way RIGHT NOW !
http://www.spaceweather.com/
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 22, 2016, 10:58:38 PM
#32
My point is that Crypto stored on Cell Phones will function almost as well as Cash during Short , keyword Short Power Outages.
With Car Chargers , the mobile phone can easily last until the cell towers backups run out of power.
Because the short ones , internet is still accessible from the Cellphone, and those cell towers have emergency power backups already in place.

Cash has to be drawn out before the power fails, as the ATMs die with the electricity and the banks will not open for the public until the power comes back on.

Hurricanes, Floods, Tornado all can cause short term problems, but they are short term and there is usually a place with power & communications within driving distance.
So the Fear that would grip a person, and cause them to revert to stone age civility does not occur.

A True EMP crash sends us back to Stone Ages, it won't be 3 months before we are back to our present standard of living.
More like Generations, as most knowledge is stored in electronic format and libraries with Actual Books are dying.   Cry
The People that can help rebuilt from this may die in a disease outbreak or the violence that follows way before their skills can be used.

Plus many people think , no problem, we just live like people used to, what they don't understand , is that even the way people lived in the early 1900s,
there was a functioning infrastructure, with people knowing what was required of them to make a living.
Example :
In our Neighborhood growing up , there was a guy traveling around, with a donkey pulling a cart with salt, cooking utensils, clothes and most everything people needed.
Back when Sears & Robuck gave door to door service. Cheesy
He would take cash or barter with you for crops/food or home made cloths and then visit the city to trade with them or buy supplies to sell back to the country people, these people made living easier for the City & Country people, if our current infrastructure collapses, it will be some time before the new systems can compensate, especially if we reset backwards technologically 100 years or more. It will take time before people can develop the expertise needed for these systems to work.

There is really only 3 scenarios that favor cash over crypto.
1. Governments outlaw it, doubtful because they are secretly promoting it with negative interest rates
2. Electricity networks are working normally , but the internet & all long distance communications itself is destroyed.
    (Internet was designed to withstand a Nuclear War, so odds are it will survive as long as their is electricity.)
3. Quantum computers actually can break any encryption in seconds meaning no crypto is safe.
    (Also Doubtful, we just use a quantum computer to create the next encryption. )  Wink


These 3 Scenarios that favor Crypto over Cash.
1. Governments use Negative Interest Rates on Banks Deposits , & charge more if you use Cash. ( 1st part has already happened.)
2. Your Country Defaults on international payments making their Fiat worthless. (Venezuela is happening now, & the US is so far in Debt , it will never be paid off.)
3. Business go cashless, as a way to save money and hold onto Profit. (This has also already begun to happen.)

 Cool

FYI:
On the EMP side of things, we need to start hardening our electronics to protect them from an EMP pulse.
As it has already happen in 1859.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
Quote
Carrington flare

From August 28 to September 2, 1859, numerous sunspots were observed on the Sun. On August 29, southern auroras were observed as far north as Queensland, Australia.[5] Just before noon on September 1, the English amateur astronomers Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson independently made the first observations of a solar flare.[6] The flare was associated with a major coronal mass ejection (CME) that travelled directly toward Earth, taking 17.6 hours to make the 150 million kilometre (93 million mile) journey. It is believed that the relatively high speed of this CME (typical CMEs take several days to arrive at Earth) was made possible by a prior CME, perhaps the cause of the large aurora event on August 29, that "cleared the way" of ambient solar wind plasma for the Carrington event.[6]

Because of a geomagnetic solar flare effect ("magnetic crochet")[7] observed in the Kew Observatory magnetometer record by Scottish physicist Balfour Stewart and a geomagnetic storm observed the following day, Carrington suspected a solar-terrestrial connection.[8] Worldwide reports on the effects of the geomagnetic storm of 1859 were compiled and published by American mathematician Elias Loomis, which support the observations of Carrington and Stewart.

On September 1–2, 1859, one of the largest recorded geomagnetic storms (as recorded by ground-based magnetometers) occurred. Auroras were seen around the world, those in the northern hemisphere as far south as the Caribbean; those over the Rocky Mountains in the U.S. were so bright that their glow awoke gold miners, who began preparing breakfast because they thought it was morning.[6] People in the northeastern United States could read a newspaper by the aurora's light.[9] The aurora was visible as far from the poles as Sub-Saharan Africa (Senegal, Mauritania, perhaps Monrovia, Liberia), Monterrey and Tampico in Mexico, Queensland, Cuba, Hawaii,[10] and even at lower latitudes very close to the equator, such as in Colombia.[11] Estimates of the storm strength range from -800 nT to -1750 nT.[12]

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[13] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[14] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.[15]

On Saturday, September 3, 1859, the Baltimore American and Commercial Advertiser reported, "Those who happened to be out late on Thursday night had an opportunity of witnessing another magnificent display of the auroral lights. The phenomenon was very similar to the display on Sunday night, though at times the light was, if possible, more brilliant, and the prismatic hues more varied and gorgeous. The light appeared to cover the whole firmament, apparently like a luminous cloud, through which the stars of the larger magnitude indistinctly shone. The light was greater than that of the moon at its full, but had an indescribable softness and delicacy that seemed to envelop everything upon which it rested. Between 12 and 1 o'clock, when the display was at its full brilliancy, the quiet streets of the city resting under this strange light, presented a beautiful as well as singular appearance."[16]

In June 2013, a joint venture from researchers at Lloyd's of London and Atmospheric and Environmental Research (AER) in the United States used data from the Carrington Event to estimate the current cost of a similar event to the U.S. alone at $0.6–2.6 trillion.[2]

FYI2:  Where as i can hoard FIAT
It will have two advantages over Crypto in an EMP Scenario, you can burn it to stay warm or wipe your butt with it .  Wink
(Or you could just use pine straw or corn cobs instead.)
(Roman Empire info, they used a Sponge on a Stick in a bucket of Salt Water.)  Huh


FYI3:
Within 12 to 18 months, experts predict, 90 percent of Americans would be dead. ... 90 percent of all Americans would die within 12-18 months of an EMP.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
October 22, 2016, 08:55:49 PM
#31
@kiko
It depends i think on how you or i want to speculate on the outcome.
I STILL think people will want FIAT knowing that power will eventually be restored.
Sure.. many will resort to alternative means.. anything really.

The EMP scenario is often proposed online as a say 3 month Electrical downtime with say 75% of North America.
Long enough to be a doomsday scenario but not long enough to put humanity out of commission.

Get this concept though..
If all power is cut off then FIAT will still in fact work the exact same as it does now. (hand to hand transfer)
(good point about the ATM's though.. forced quantitative-easing at work LOL)
Where as in short time it will be impossible to use a Crypto coin (any of them)
So..
One is a viable *crippled* option and the other is NOT !

I think we are *almost* on the same page here.. so close  Cheesy
You are making good sense for sure but think of this..
Many people in Crypto have ALWAYS bought up the cheapest shitcoins..
Back in 2013 i used that method while trading too.. in the hopes of profit.
So then think of FIAT paper money.
No matter what there WILL be a ton of people WANTING fiat cash money in a power outage.

Anyway let me try and get back on topic.
FIAT will not be replaced by a digital currency in my mind.. jut don't see it happening.
And the vulnerability of crypto is an aspect to that.
It shows how it is NOT a technology that is READY to replace FIAT.

Half the big sites on the web were just knocked out by a DNS attack..
These things are disruptive and paints electronic tech as a major risk.
I trust the collective faith in a FIAT dollar more than i do a technical digital money solution.
Anyway the EMP scenario is open to wide speculation but we do know Crypto will be dead.
Power will dwindle and poof ..no more Bitcorns etc.
Where as i can hoard FIAT and wait for the lights to come back on..

I appreciate the replies.. thinking this out is healthy for us etc.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 22, 2016, 08:25:19 PM
#30
Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function

You did not get what i was saying then.
I am pointing out a flaw in every coin so far.. Electricity requirements + the Internet.
I always thought the spirit of this forum section was to improve on Bitcoin.
Well.. i just told you all a major problem that has not been addressed in the slightest.
And i am silly for pointing it out ?

What does the fact other problems exist have to do with it ?

Cut the power or internet and no coins people.
Maybe a system should be in place to handle this ?
No ?

I also think that is directly linked to the topic title i posted.

It's a complicated issue for sure but we have vulnerabilities that should be handled.
And we also have a large amount of users that think crypto-corns will make FIAT vanish forever.

@kiklo
Which is more trusted with the public ?
The digital handling of FIAT or cash in hand ?
Rhetorical Wink
Ever heard of a bank run ?

When it comes to introducing people to crypto coins i never met a person that was trusting of it.
But will they trust the govt controlled FIAT dollar i put in there hand ?
YES.
Your exceptions don't really address what i am saying i think eh.

Like lets face it here guys if Bitcoin or the biggest Altcoins fail then what ?
Is the various large govts going to start handing bail-out packages ?
Nope.. and smart people know this.

I seen a guy on CNN show how he made over a billion over night.
He said it was easy.. they announced bail-outs so him and the others crashed the markets
..then collected the bail-out money.

Why ? the FED Reserve is there to do that.. it's their job.
Which is EXACTLY why the world has faith in FIAT.
Because the govts have pledged to keep it going..

Who is doing that for crypto ? NOBODY.
EDIT: Correction = Ethereum backers are doing it *in secret* Wink

PS:
Loved the goat pics LOL  Cheesy


 Smiley  , Goat Pics are always fun.

You are right, about at the present time , most people prefer Cash to Crypto.
But the TPTB are planning to change that. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.16624087

Back to your Lost electricity issue.
It shows a hacker's mind that you see a problem , and see cash as a solution, but follow this line of thinking for a minute and see if it affects your conclusion.

Less than 72 hours, without electricity

Cell Towers , are running on Battery Backups or generators , so the internet is still running, and people have been keeping their mobile phones charged using their car Chargers. So they can still spend crypto at business or with anyone else that keeps their phone charged.
Everyone is also still taking Cash, however the ATMs to draw more is down.

Now 7 days , without electricity

Your Car is out of Gas, from looking for a gas station to refill , even thru the gas stations have gas, they use electricity to run the Pumps, so no one can pump gas without electricity. The Generator used up the last of your Gas saving the food in the freezer & refrigerator. All of the Grocery Stores have been ransacked and people just took the food. All Phone Communications died after the 4th day without electricity, so crypto payments only last 4 days max. But the people that did take cash for payments , now are sitting on worthless paper bills as they have no way to get any more product in and now no one even takes cash. Plus the people have all begun taking whatever they wanted by force, law enforcement has abandoned their posts and are protecting no one but their-selves. Gangs have begun to spring up , that are taking everything from people and killing them if they face any resistance.

Moral of this story is that after 7 to 14 Days, people have no hope of electricity returning and order being restored , they will revert to their basic animal nature , and we are back to stone age laws, Survival of the Fittest.

Cash or Crypto will not survive a week without electricity, when the infrastructure fails.

The above scenario is if the people don't know what has happen, if everyone suspects the big one EMP that destroys all of the world technology.
Crypto is dead immediately and cash dead less than 24 hours as people realize their is no government left to support it.


 Cool

FYI:
ZEIT Knights are there for ZEITcoin ,  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1016
October 21, 2016, 04:55:01 AM
#29
So what happens to the value of your fiat if the power goes out?

97% of USD disappears, and there is 3% left over in physical cash.  The value of the USD (and all fiat currencies) will nose dive, so the value of that physical cash will be worthless anyway, so what are you going to do with it?

I guess you could lobby to continue using the cash that is available as a means of trade, but I'm sure you'd have a hard time with that due to perceived confidence regardless of if it makes sense to do so or not.

Ultimately if the power goes out, no current currency will survive, we'd probably end up back on gold and silver coins (or maybe tally sticks!)
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
October 21, 2016, 02:40:55 AM
#28
Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function

You did not get what i was saying then.
I am pointing out a flaw in every coin so far.. Electricity requirements + the Internet.
I always thought the spirit of this forum section was to improve on Bitcoin.
Well.. i just told you all a major problem that has not been addressed in the slightest.
And i am silly for pointing it out ?

What does the fact other problems exist have to do with it ?

Cut the power or internet and no coins people.
Maybe a system should be in place to handle this ?
No ?

I also think that is directly linked to the topic title i posted.

It's a complicated issue for sure but we have vulnerabilities that should be handled.
And we also have a large amount of users that think crypto-corns will make FIAT vanish forever.

@kiklo
Which is more trusted with the public ?
The digital handling of FIAT or cash in hand ?
Rhetorical Wink
Ever heard of a bank run ?

When it comes to introducing people to crypto coins i never met a person that was trusting of it.
But will they trust the govt controlled FIAT dollar i put in there hand ?
YES.
Your exceptions don't really address what i am saying i think eh.

Like lets face it here guys if Bitcoin or the biggest Altcoins fail then what ?
Is the various large govts going to start handing bail-out packages ?
Nope.. and smart people know this.

I seen a guy on CNN show how he made over a billion over night.
He said it was easy.. they announced bail-outs so him and the others crashed the markets
..then collected the bail-out money.

Why ? the FED Reserve is there to do that.. it's their job.
Which is EXACTLY why the world has faith in FIAT.
Because the govts have pledged to keep it going..

Who is doing that for crypto ? NOBODY.
EDIT: Correction = Ethereum backers are doing it *in secret* Wink

PS:
Loved the goat pics LOL  Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 528
Merit: 250
October 20, 2016, 09:18:26 PM
#27
Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function
hero member
Activity: 2282
Merit: 505
October 20, 2016, 09:05:32 PM
#26
I will start off with one of many reasons why (i have posted since 2013)

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  Cheesy

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.


This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Since day one when i got into this stuff i have warned users abut this.
I have warned them that something should have been done to account for this risk.
Not sure what you CAN do though.

There is many reasons why crypto-coins can not replace FIAT.
I will post another reason or two later Wink
Oh you got my point, I never using my crypto coin if the elctricity in my house is dead. i'm not a naive persone or the crypto fanatic but this is a re very true in my mind. like saving the coin in my phone and if my battery is got empty and i can't do anything with my coin and this si a reality.
In fact the gold is always be a king and the paper money is always be a queen.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
October 20, 2016, 08:49:56 PM
#25


The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  Cheesy



How will owen and a vacuum cleaner be able to do any business transactions with a fiat?

Owen will burn it and not sure what will vacuum cleaner do with it.

Digital currency was invented for them. Not for us.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2016, 08:01:44 AM
#24
 Smiley Wink Cheesy





 Cool
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1010
Join The Blockchain Revolution In Logistics
October 20, 2016, 07:37:32 AM
#23

Goatse
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2016, 07:02:37 AM
#22

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/business/dealbook/hackers-81-million-sneak-attack-on-world-banking.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2573618/Kourtney-Kardashian-50-000-CASH-stolen-home-police-believe-linked-sister-Khloes-recent-jewellery-theft.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/09/25/columbus-circle-subway-attack/

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14758464.Armed_muggers_steal_large_amount_of_money_from_man_in_alley/?ref=arc

Someone may steal your money no matter how you store it, people are mugged and robbed everyday , does not make anyone stop using it.
Government Regulated Cash will be made irrelevant within 10 years.

I am sure in the past someone said that paper money would never replace gold coins or that the automobile would never replace the horse or that wireless phones would never replace old copper wired house phone. I even remember one guy saying the Internet would never replace Compuserve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

Things change , some for the better some not. But things will always change.  Smiley  

 Cool

FYI:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/imagining-a-cashless-world
Quote
In a new book, “The Curse of Cash,” Rogoff, now a professor at Harvard, argues for phasing out paper money in the U.S., starting with big bills and slowly letting small denominations fall toward disuse. “Paper currency has become a major impediment to the smooth functioning of the global financial system,” he writes. His cause dates to the late nineteen-nineties, when he found that sixty per cent of the value of the country’s currency supply was in hundred-dollar bills—an astonishing proportion, considering how rarely C-notes show up in ordinary life. Since then, the percentage has risen (it’s now about eighty per cent), with $1.34 trillion outside banks at any moment. That’s nearly forty-two hundred dollars carried by every man, woman, and child in the U.S. Under whose mattress has all this cash vanished?

Rogoff argues that the invisible large notes must be paying off-the-book wages. They are sitting in Zurich safe-deposit boxes, probably, crossing borders with cartels and traffickers, and doing other awful things. The U.S. dollar is an unofficial currency in both unstable economies (such as the Philippines) and under-the-table oligarchies (China, Russia). Phasing out big bills would make it harder for domestic currency to support corruption abroad. A million dollars in hundred-dollar bills is easy to tote in a shopping bag, but a million in ten-dollar bills weighs an ungainly two hundred and twenty pounds. Hobbling the underground market should also temper tax evasion, a costlier problem than many people realize. The most recent I.R.S. estimates indicate a tax-payment shortfall of four hundred and sixty billion dollars a year—a disparity that’s transferred to those who pay. Rogoff speculates that eliminating big bills would also be a more effective deterrent to illegal immigration than, say, a border wall, because the wages of undocumented workers are, necessarily, paid in cash.

Most important for many economists, low-cash life allows for negative interest rates, in which the lender pays the borrower interest. These are already in limited use in Europe and Japan, and they’ve become the subject of increasing attention in the U.S. (Paper money is an obstacle, because if interest rates went negative a lot of people would cash out and stuff money into sock drawers—that way, at least, they’d get a zero rate.) Some economists think a quick drop into negative rates during a global economic crisis, like the one in 2008, would have the effect of a defibrillator: there would be a brief jolt, but then the system would get pumping again, and both interest rates and inflation would return to healthy, growth-oriented zones. As things are, rates can’t drop below zero, but they struggle to climb. For these and other reasons, Rogoff told me, some formerly skeptical colleagues have warmed to the idea of phasing out cash. Seriously considering his sunset scenario in the U.S., however, would require looking to a country that has already started toward that horizon.

That country is Sweden
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
October 20, 2016, 05:25:15 AM
#20
I don't think most of you grasp how technically inept a huge amount of the population is.
vs.. cash in your pocket.

Even myself i prefer to have cash in hand.
All my life if i get a check i cash it and take the money.. i do not like or trust banks.
Which is not too unusual..

Then factor in the mystery if people even hear about various tech things like services or BTC etc.
They scare people.. for good reason (ever seen a hack news story ?

I was arguing about something dumb with my inept room-mate idiot..
I had to remind him.. hey guy.. know what ?
I can Google search ANYTHING and get the truth in a heart beat.
He was like ohhh uhhh yeah i forgot he said.
He just does not grasp that there is a wealth of factual information out there at the click of a button.
Because ? He does not even vaguely grasp the tech.. the Internet etc.
It's all just mysterious bloops and bleeps as he holds the computer mouse upside down.
He's hitting the scroll wheel sayin' did i do one ? Did i internet now ?

And NO you can't tell people these things because it goes in one ear and out the other..
I tried to show the guy how to click a button and he still does not get it after being shown for years.

A HUGE part of the population NEEDS the simplicity of FIAT.
The tangible quality of cash in hand can not be substituted with something digital.
Supplemented ? Absolutely ! ..no argument there.

A world currency ?
Sorry but that is just not going to happen.
I was the one who posted here first the UK dropped out of the EU..
In other words you will not get your ducks in line !

You think North Korea is going to drop their FIAT for BTC ? or a world currency ?
You all need to be realistic about the needs / desires of various parts of the planet.

Don't forget how many of you have claimed a digital currency will REPLACE FIAT money.
That is the topic and i brought it up because i have heard it a LOT for years !
Do you people ACTUALLY believe this realistically ?

PS:
GOATS !!!111ONE

If they were not pushing negative interest rates,
if they were not decreasing the higher denominations of fiat,
if business were not refusing to accept cash,
if solar chargers and cell phone tech was not being designed with the 3rd world in mind.
https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Articles/2015/July/How-Mobile-Phones-Are-Changing-the-Developing-Worl.aspx

Then I would say you were right, but alas there are too many things being moved into place worldwide to make it happen.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe

Your friend will just use a refillable payment card,  where he or someone else just swipes it.
It won't get any simpler than that.

 Cool

FYI:
Personally , I would prefer that cash be left alone and the higher denominations like the $1000 & $10000 Bills were brought back.
Their agenda is apparent, and by controlling the banks and legal system, and playing on the cost savings and convenience of a digital currency, the majority of the populace will follow willing into their new system.
Just as the populace quit accepting gold & silver coins and started accepting Worthless Paper money backed by nothing but the word of known Liars ,
the next transition is to digital where their is no counterfeiting and permanent record keeping.

FYI2:
Just as now if you walked into McDonalds and tried to buy a burger & fries with a gold coin, a few years from now you will get the same look trying to use cash.
And a request to pay digitally to get your food.  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
October 20, 2016, 05:11:24 AM
#19
I don't think most of you grasp how technically inept a huge amount of the population is.
vs.. cash in your pocket.

Even myself i prefer to have cash in hand.
All my life if i get a check i cash it and take the money.. i do not like or trust banks.
Which is not too unusual..

Then factor in the mystery if people even hear about various tech things like services or BTC etc.
They scare people.. for good reason (ever seen a hack news story ?

I was arguing about something dumb with my inept room-mate idiot..
I had to remind him.. hey guy.. know what ?
I can Google search ANYTHING and get the truth in a heart beat.
He was like ohhh uhhh yeah i forgot he said.
He just does not grasp that there is a wealth of factual information out there at the click of a button.
Because ? He does not even vaguely grasp the tech.. the Internet etc.
It's all just mysterious bloops and bleeps as he holds the computer mouse upside down.
He's hitting the scroll wheel sayin' did i do one ? Did i internet now ?

And NO you can't tell people these things because it goes in one ear and out the other..
I tried to show the guy how to click a button and he still does not get it after being shown for years.

A HUGE part of the population NEEDS the simplicity of FIAT.
The tangible quality of cash in hand can not be substituted with something digital.
Supplemented ? Absolutely ! ..no argument there.

A world currency ?
Sorry but that is just not going to happen.
I was the one who posted here first the UK dropped out of the EU..
In other words you will not get your ducks in line !

You think North Korea is going to drop their FIAT for BTC ? or a world currency ?
You all need to be realistic about the needs / desires of various parts of the planet.

Don't forget how many of you have claimed a digital currency will REPLACE FIAT money.
That is the topic and i brought it up because i have heard it a LOT for years !
Do you people ACTUALLY believe this realistically ?

PS:
GOATS !!!111ONE
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
October 20, 2016, 05:08:34 AM
#18
is true altcoin can never replace and take over fiat money
bitcoin is too never replace and take over position fiat money
bitcoin and altcoin only use in online digital curency
fiat money can use in real life
Pages:
Jump to: