Topic: "Failure to understand Bitcoin could cost..." (non-totalitarian version) (Read 3919 times)

he's knowingly spreading FUD.  i caught him last week intentionally spewing the "transaction times take 10 minutes" misinformation, and when I told him bitcoin is the strongest network in the world, he said "watch me destroy it".  anyway, might as well keep bumping this thread as long as he is bumping his own.  hopefully at some points the mods will get sick of it and ban him.

I just ignore that guy now, he is craving attention and requires people to tell him how clever he is because he has low self esteem. I can't even be bothered to read this thread, why waste the energy?

People suck because they want to regulate bitcoin and make it just like everything else. They are so parasitic they don't understand the importance of freedom, freedom that comes being able to do everything yourself. They are so braindead and zombie-like you can't make them understand ANYTHING.


My point is that a pentium 133mhz uses about 15 watts of power at the maximum. Just because things get more complicated and smaller doesn't make them more efficient. Understand the value of being able to save money. Getting things done faster and faster is just chasing the dragon. There is actually a reason people get upset about the ASICminers being so expensive. They are unnecessary. If we kept it at GPU/CPU mining like with litecoin, well, you'd have litecoin profits with bitcoin That's the value of keeping old hardware. They may mine slower, but so what? The value is still there and I enjoy using litecoin.


Yes. I don't like the fact that there are supposed scrypt asics in existence, now.


You are missing the point. Star Trek has nothing to do with whether or not you can place value on not always getting paid for what services you bring. Sometimes the value is in helping someone you love. Ideas such as property ownership is stupid. All it does is make big government get bigger and meaner and more evil. You just need to defend your living space you don't need the government putting invisible lines on it. It doesn't actually protect you from anything as your neighbors don't respect you to begin with and generally if someone violates your privacy or vandalizes your property the cops will take the criminals side. It's easy just to go find land where no one else is and just setup camp like the old settlers did. This was before banks had control of the entire continent of north america, however.

However, we don't need to be star trek staff to mine bitcoin and enjoy it. But we seem to be fast approaching it. Already they are talking about quantum technology, and it's making me sick. You know, there are actual ways you can do things completely anonymously, break up networks into pieces and prevent the NSA quantum computers from hacking your shit. No one wants to try though. And yeah I can make something useful like that, but no one will use it because everyone wants to recreate the tyranny they love to force onto others. So now we have banks using bitcoin which wasn't the point of bitcoin. I don't like the idea that banks have ANYTHING to do with bitcoin.

EDIT: I'd like to add that a pentium 3 500 will actually do everything you will ever need a PC to do. Video games like crysis aren't really most people's goal. And who cares about crysis anyways? It's a shitty game with poorly coded graphics rendering that hogs up your system's memory and wastes electricity. But look what they did with litecoin. We are using old mining hardware for FUN! But why stop at a 7970? Let's go back and figure out how to use opengl to hash. Use a different hashing aglorithm to get it done and use a pentium 3 500 in conjunction. Design web pages built to run efficiently on a pentium 3, and if the network grows enough, you'll get a lot more websites designed for that. The entire computer culture could shift back to efficiency and ease of use.There are still websites that keep the neat and clean look of the late 90's. And if the value of mining for some kind of crypto-currency is enough people will have no problem buying older systems and booting them back up again because they will make money. Old games that were extremely fun will also see the light of day again. And it would all save electricity.

+1 - its a joke.

Anony-shit spamming his link again from the warren buffet thread.   why are the moderators allowing this?

AnonyMint is full of shit.  He is anti-bitcoin , yet posts here constantly...   
pretends to care about cryptocurrencies, yet as smart as he tries to *appear*,
never offers any solutions.  I've seen his kind before and you can fool
some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

Wow.  You do a pretty good Anonymint imitation too!  Or were you serious?  If you were serious I find this particular argument easy to destroy...


That's just the classic "This area was really cool when it was our little secret when we moved here, but now that others moving in it sucks."

In fact your argument kinda goes more like: "There goes the neighborhood". As you don't seem to be comfortable with the kinds of new people moving in.

Fact of the matter is the Bitcoin network is designed to print money.  There is going to be stiff competition for that money.  Either take the risk to keep up or make your coins a different way like I do.

i'm sick and tired of cowards thinking they're morally superior by either PURPOSEFULLY responding with completely fucking gibberish to throw me off and never actually answer my questions or points, OR... they just don't answer at all. I made some good points and you fucking morons in this thread are too retarded to respond.

You are both obviously low-iq primates, and as betamales you are destined to be shoved around by people with gigantic intellects like anonymint.  As has been discussed upthread the 3rd order spine factor of transceptive organisms all but dictates abject failure on the part of betamales to ever understand what sort of genius it takes to run a poorly formatted blog.


So until you can match my prowess and ability to type gigantic walls of text into a browser inexculpably full of overbig words designed to convince me I am smarter than you then I suggest you go back to your little room when the police will be soon coming to butt rape you for ever saying the word "bitcoin".  I on the otherhand will be developing the "one true coin" and will announce it somewhere noone will see because I hate everyone.

Ha.

Yet the lives of middle class are not ruined all over the world by the powerful entities. 

But that Holy Grail Bitcoin will save us, because it is pseudo-anonymous (WTF?!). Yeah, yeah I know all the batshit stupid diarrhea.


Fear of Damned Facts.

And people wonder why altcoins must be launched anonymously.

Well it seems anonymint has committed another temporary bitcointalk suicide.  Promising to "really sign off and see us on the other side" of presumably his magnum opus coin development.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5475768

I was briefly interested in what he had to say, but he is an unbalanced man, and quite an asshole to boot.

He likes to call people out for ad-hominem out of one side of his mouth, and then call people "low-IQ" "Betamales" out of the other.

He's butthurt for being ripped off selling BTC on paypal, and I believe it is in part because he was stolen from that he imagines this great scenario of clawback and the lives of all BTC holders being ruined by giant conspiracies within world governments.

He's a bright fellow, but not the genius he likes to portray.  He is hateful, exceedingly arrogant, and paranoid to an extent that must certainly interfere with a normal life.  I feel concern for his mental health.  But more I am concerned because (somewhat) intelligent aggressive unbalanced people like him with delusions of grandeur can sometimes be dangerous.

All that said, I predict his internet suicide, like all the others I've seen so far from him will last a few days, maybe a little more.

He always comes back pretty quicly after tearing up all the papers and storming off with all his toys.

Lol.

"....the $150 trillion debt is not just some accounting ledger entry. Rather as I explained above, it is a reality of (the current vocations of) most people being not needed, i.e. uneconomic and not profitable. The accumulated size of the unprofitable vocations is $150 trillion. "

 No - the US has effectively borrowed from the world and given to the wealthy.

The size of global debt is roughly equal to the size of global wealth - and 10% of the world population own virtually all of it - the wealth that is, not the debt    (well, 85% of it - but you get the point) .

No dead weight - no cancerous tumours - no human beings that aren't needed - just greed.

Would it be OK to just copy and paste from the Anonymity thread a post that I have just made in response to Anonymints trolling. Obviously no point me posting it on his self moderated thread .




"Quote from: AnonyMint on Today at 12:52:07 AM
...myopic socialist illogic.

Another great sound bite - that ultimately means absolutely nothing    More links to links to links of the same old same old same old  

I'll guarantee you this Anonymint - wherever you are located in the world if you turn a profit or otherwise derive an income from the national assets and people of the UK then you are liable to give something back to the UK in taxation - and you will pay your share , anonymous transactions or not - so don't rest too easy buddy   .

I'm sorry if for you that makes me some kind of Pol Pot - and I'm sorry if it doesn't sit easy for you, your overseas idyll and your unencumbered luxurious dissipation.

Call me old fashioned, but I like to call it social justice.

 [ps. seeing as how you are censoring posts on your own self moderated thread, I might as well just add here (in this open thread as I will not again post in a self moderated thread) that when you talk about your aversion to socialism, what you are really averse to is central administration, beauracracy and rationalisation of organisations. That is what you are describing at least - and then you are labelling it "socialism" to fit in with your preconceptions and your dogma. You can name drop Hegel as much as you like (have you ever actually read Hegel ?) but what you don't understand is that the debt crisis was fermented and unleashed by the free market economies. It had nothing to do with socialism - and it had nothing to do with you or anyone else being taxed. It had to do with greed, laissez faire economics and banking/financial (derivatives) deregulation.

    Do us all a favour will you Anonymint ? You are fooling no-one but yourself.]"




ps. I can now delete this reply from the Anonymity thread   - where it doesn't belong - cheers Blah.

The blocks rewards are reduced over time because people suck, and make the bitcoin network suck. Instead of relying on what works, people just want everything to get done faster which doesn't really add up to anything but more money and energy being spent in the long run. The faster you make something, the more the stupid sheep like people who use bitcoin because they are parasites not because they care about the free market are going to simply want even faster. They just mindlessly consume everything in their environment, and now they're on bitcoin making mining even harder for the rest of us because they are so stupid they don't understand the risks involved in making mining hardware obsolete. These are the types of people who do steroids endlessly until their biceps are 40 inches around because they can't handle any other guy looking bigger than them. That's why we have a problem with bitcoin mining, not because mining is bad.

If you bothered to read the rest of my earlier you'd understand why bitcoin mining is a necessity. Data from star trek once said to a cryogenically unfrozen 20th century banker "In our society, if you want something, you simply ask for it". That's basically how it should work. You're getting caught on the idea of production, thinking that the work (production) needs to be equally distributed. You fail to see the problem with that though. There is actually better value in NOT HAVING TO WORK at times, and while we still need to work for SOMETHING the other times, we all come across times when it's easier just to take something to make our lives easier, but in that case it's only done with respect to who put it there, man or nature, and it's done without taking too much.

Astute. I also explained this in my way of expression:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5146060

---

Scaling of the money supply M is not intended to make exchange rates stable. The purpose has nothing to do with that, rather see my link above for the benefits. See Quantity Theory of Money and the linked posts in the Errata section.


Agree Bitcoin is flawed and thus is drifting towards centralized. Thus is failure directed.

Fixing those flaws to keep it decentralized is on trend with the Second Law of Thermodynamics which says the entropy of the universe trends to maximum. Thus is success directed.

Usually he likes to attack the intelligence of his readers and then takes his toys and claims to be leaving the forum.

I have witnessed a half dozen of his net-suicides at least.

He is an intelligent man, obviously, but something is out of balance. 

I'll throw some numbers out to illustrate what I mean.
As a rule of thumb, mining cost tends to asymptotically "catch up" with price, kinda.
So let's say 1BTC costs $800 to make.
A block with 25BTC = $20k of cost.

Now, putting ideologies and general awesomeness aside for a moment, in a different system those 25 bitcoins might have been printed for free. OK, call it "$5" because even typing some numbers into a database must cost something.
The other $19.995k is basically global warming, burnt coal for electricity, and landfills stuffed with dead ASICs. As some would it, "economic devastation" and a cancerous dead weight.

And how many transactions are packed into each block? A few hundred? Sweet! Only $50 of socialised habitat destruction (per transaction, that is) to pay for the "provable inflation rate". At least it's not as bad as that extortionate minimum fee. *sigh*

But surely I've misunderstood something? What about the awesomeness of decentralised proof-of-work, making it all transparent and honest? Well, the cost is so extreme that I'm questioning whether it's worth it. AnonyMint did not want to have that discussion. He would rather repeatedly shout out his conclusions and his pre-existing, US-centric rationale about centralisation and evil governments. However, when questioned about the heart of the issue, he kept deleting my posts.


Another reason for my questioning is the high volatility. It's clear that a "transparent, honest, provable rate of increase in the money supply" does not produce nice smooth exchange rate graphs in practice. "Trust in the maths" is all over the place:
1BTC = $800 of trust-in-the-maths one week,
1BTC = $600 of trust-in-the-maths the next week.

Obviously something doesn't quite add up, there. There must be some other factor/s affecting exchange rates. How about liquidity, flow, chaotic changes in holdings? Scale of adoption might have an effect, and it could be argued that exchange rates will become more stable as the market saturates. 4~5 years might not be long enough to see a long-term trend on log charts. (More on that, later.)


To be fair on Bitcoin, it does seem extremely well thought-out and elegant in its simplicity:
Block rewards are reduced over time, and tendencies to centralise and form natural monopolies (think: mining pools) are not cock-blocked by ideology. Innovation and evolution: from CPU mining, to GPUs, FPGAs and custom ASICs was free and unhindered all the way. However, some people would prefer a design that is deliberately crippled (read: micromanaged and prematurely optimised) to block these natural processes. AnonyMint himself argued extensively about entropic force and power law distribution -- so why the blind spot?

I strongly disagree. Mining is not a necessary evil, because it helps process the transactions, which costs energy, which in turn provides energy. Bitcoin miners are simply fish in a pond. Do any of those fish in the pond OWN the pond? No. Did they build it? No. Do they deserve to drink and breathe from it, YES! And that's why bitcoin mining is not a necessary evil, but a necessary FUNCTION for a TRULY free economy to work. Everyone who is a good person deserves to have whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt the economy (IE taking too much of something). It's the same reason why in the old days in the 1800's, people who lived in small towns would generally just walk by some random guy's corn field and take some corn home with them. But they never took too much. That's the principle. Understand that a free market isn't some deathly, scary, grey concrete slab that falls on you when you don't pay exactly the amount that you took. There is intrinsic value in charitable actions. Imagine an old lady who can't get around anymore, and needs her food shipped to her. She could mine for bitcoins to get her food, and perhaps medicine. Understand that energy doesn't die or get used up, it just transforms. And sometimes the intrinsic value of any resource you can imagine can transform into the necessity of charity.

Understand that charity does NOT equal socialism. A baby being taken care of by it's mother isn't socialism. It's charity. So tell me, what is the value of taking care of an infant? Love.

Let me further explain how the bitcoin mining works. Perhaps the electrical cost is less than the value recieved from processing bitcoin transactions (mining). But why should that matter? The value of something isn't separated from other objects of value, but rather it's one whole unit that is affected by everything we do. THere were some years in our cultivated past that we caught a really good time to grow lots of crops and thus were able to make an abundance of coin. You just ride the wave. There is no real set value to anything. It's just whatever feels right to you. Sometimes you have to think about it, sometimes you don't. But whatever the case, you just do what feels necessary or right. That's the principle behind bitcoin. People don't need to starve just because they themselves don't produce EXACTLY the cost of the resources they take from. Rather, if they need help, then those that are able to help simply become stronger, not weaker. Perhaps physically, or skill-wise. Either way, all energy just shifts from one area to another. It doesn't matter that we're not all "equally adapted" to society and/or the economy within said society.

As expected, my comment was deleted from the other thread. Not even a quote or passing mention this time


While proof-of-work obviously tickles the braincells in various ways, AnonyMint's posts strongly suggest that technical design is merely secondary to some agenda he's obsessing about. In spite of all his showy keyboard bashing, he sure refuses to engage in meaningful discussions.

Good thinking Blahblah - I didn't even realise there was such a thing on this (or any) forum as a self moderated thread. Perfect for Anonymints purposes though.
  Can I just add here that if anyone out there has ever come across Anonymints threads and have found it difficult to grasp the ideas contained therein - it is not because you are a dead weight lazy lumpenproletariat malignant tumour idiot fuckwit (as Anonymint would likely have you believe) so don't worry about it too much.
     How do I know this to be true ?   I know this to be true because I am one such dead weight lazy lumpenproletariat malignant tumour idiot fuckwit - and I understand his threads just fine   .